Well scotland didnt get independance, thread

The other point to remember is that in 10-15 years time there will be 10-15 years less oil to use…and that was largely what this was about. I suspect by that stage the possiblity that the North Sea won’t be proving quite so valuable might influence a few votes in the future.

It’s true, you can’t trust the media….
including ‘social’ media 😉

Blimey, if the losing is this bad at 55:45 imagine what we would be subjected to if it was really close.

Yes, remind me which side lost the democratic vote. I think it was the one who shouted the loudest. They still haven’t stopped.

Blimey, if the losing is this bad at 55:45 imagine what we would be subjected to if it was really close.

With respect, I’ve accepted the result but what I’m saying is my eyes have been opened to the influence of the media. That has wider implications for all of us.

Are you just going to make jibes or will you address the points I’ve made on BBC bias?

Empty vessels……

I have addressed them here and before, and with respect, have chosen to disagree.

In the context of a campaign of completed deceit and lies, it’s not even the central point.

Comparing live coverage on CH4 news with what was being suggested on here last night, told me quite enough about bias.

I wonder if you’ll see things the same way when the bias doesn’t happen to agree with you.

It’s at least as reasonable to assume that the next 65+ generation will hold onto their current views as it is to assume they’ll feel the same as the current 65+ generation

Absolutely, but from that all you’re saying is that people may change or they may not.

Without putting words into Seosamh’s mouth, he was inferring that people wont change there mind.

I was suggesting that as people get older they become more risk adverse and so you’d see the same demographic trends and people would change there mind.

We could both be wrong.

Study history and you learn to understand and live with bias. It’s pretty simple.

Agreed, my point was that’s it’s foolish to simply assume seosamh is wrong and disingenuous to pretend not to understand him.

Edit, reply was to chew.

Study history and you learn to understand and live with bias. It’s pretty simple.

You won’t have to live with it, the BBC isn’t biased remember?

It’s true, you can’t trust the media….
including ‘social’ media

A mainstream news outlet which is losing money and influence because of social media, putting out a story suggesting social media can be manipulated. Never 🙂

Then again, in the list of cognitive biases in Wikipedia is this gem 🙂

Hostile media effect: The tendency to see a media report as being biased, owing to one’s own strong partisan views.

Agreed, my point was that’s it’s foolish to simply assume seosamh is wrong and disingenuous to pretend not to understand him.

I do understand, I just dont agree. Theres a big difference.

We all understood what AS was saying, we just didnt agree. Everyones free to express their opinion. It doesnt mean i have to support it.

You can’t have it both ways.

Either the SNP and AS in particular masterminded the cornering of Westminster, forcing the offer of Devo Max (which in all likelihood will amount to hot air) or… they failed to convince the Scotch public of the benefits of independence, against a woefully inept BT campaign.

A pending or already established failure.

Your (UK resident) ancestors will shake their heads in disbelief.

On a few points. If you think Scotland doesn’t contribute more than it takes from the UK your deluded. If main stream media doesn’t influence voters then your crazy! Fear is a very powerful tool and it was the main one in the no campaign.
I’m not too clued up on Welsh politics, but anyone who wants the best for their country would want to run there own affairs in my point of view. External control has proven time and again that it is not in the controlled nations best interests.
As for the BBC, I will never buy a licence in my life again. If I don’t like a product or information I should have the choice not buy it. I hate there agenda on current and foreign affairs. The only way to get them to notice that the public have a voice is to hit them financially. No other private company can be enforced they way they can! Why is that hmmm….

BTW what I actually take from it is that pensions is where it was lost.

Which might be a valid point if it wasn’t that your figures were wrong and the under 65s actually voted No. As I showed up there – is everybody ignoring it due to too many numbers?

If I don’t like a product or information I should have the choice not buy it.

You already have that choice. I assume you’ll never consume any of their output ever again?

If you think Scotland doesn’t contribute more than it takes from the UK your deluded.

…and there we have it. Even Yes supporters think the Scottish Government is deluded
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2014/03/7888

is everybody ignoring it due to too many numbers

I tend to ignore your posts irrespective of numbers

HTH

On a few points. If you think Scotland doesn’t contribute more than it takes from the UK your deluded.

They looked at this on More Or Less (but of course that’s on the BBC so can’t be believed) – their conclusion? It depends how you look at it.

It’s possible there’s a slight flow of money from Scotland but it’s not really significant if it exists at all.

I tend to ignore your posts irrespective of numbers
HTH

Bit uncalled for.

[Quote]aracer – Member
BTW what I actually take from it is that pensions is where it was lost.
Which might be a valid point if it wasn’t that your figures were wrong and the under 65s actually voted No. As I showed up there – is everybody ignoring it due to too many numbers?[/quote]

You are actually correct. Its if you count the over 55s. I obviously picked that up wrong.

Which I don’t think invalidates my points about pensions and media.

This point concerning over 55 pensioners?

It was allowed to put doubt in the minds of pensioners that their pensions would go down.

Sherry +1. Absolutely sick of newspapers etc constantly vilifying yes supporters , and the endless stream of errors from the BBC, which I put down to budget cuts coupled with the constant requirement for BBC Scotland to refer to London when making a policy decision,the frequent covering of the referendum on a party political basis ie with 3 from the no side and 1 from Yes. The straw that broke the camels back for me was the coverage last saturday which presented the yes rally in Buchanan St as being a couple of dozen people when the reality was there were thosands. So cancelled my licence last Saturday.

Bit uncalled for.

What was? 😕

aracer – Member
This point concerning over 55 pensioners?

pensions eventually affect everyone.

Tbh the referendum is over. Is there any will to discuss this without point scoring?

I know we’ve done to death about pensioners and how they were sucked in by the evil media and threats about their pensions

but according to the final poll (and bearing in mind here that there was no formal exit poll, so it seems to be the closest we’ve got) The pensioners were not the only group who voted majority No, in fact it appears that the only group who voted majority Yes were the 25-39’s males

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/e1yphtuis8/Final_Prediction_140918_Final_Website.pdf

It also indicates that there were more problems with Yes campaigners acting unreasonably at polling stations than No campaigners…

I assume you guys will stop reading all the national papers and watching any sport, drama, current affairs etc. They all saw through AS and made no hiding of where they stood.

No sneaking in for a quick watch of the 6N or BBC news on your computers.

The Courier will keep you happy I am sure.

Personally I watch all media. One reports things others wont on an issue by issue basis. You eventually get accustomed to spotting the bullshit.

I dont pay for it mind, **** that! 😆

With regards to the bbc their bias has been known to me for a long, long time.

Thm I actually very much agree with your point about history earlier.

Ah, theft.

Probably, ive never paid a license fee, never will.

“With the benefits and privileges of being in government the SNP controlled the legislative timetable. They spent large amounts public money, through publications and other means, on preparing the ground for the referendum. Some would even say that this part of the process involved a not-so-covert politici­sation of parts of the Scottish civil service in the nationalist cause.

With the backing of multi-millionaires and billionaires the SNP had the money to outspend every other party combined, with cash left over to recruit and aid many splinter groups in support of their cause, giving the impression of broad political support for the break-up of the UK where none had existed before.

With an unpopular Tory Govern­ment in Westminster they had the perfect scapegoat to blame for every ill. They controlled the question on the ballot paper and they controlled the timetable and the timing of the vote. They chose a long campaign and a date to benefit from the feel-good factor from the Commonwealth Games and to coincide with the publicly-funded celebration of the anniversary of the battle at Bannockburn. They benefited from having the slickest election team and most expensive software to target voters and promise them whatever it took to persuade them to vote Yes.

There has never been, nor ever will be again, such a perfect confluence of factors in favour of the SNP gaining its dream result. Even so, they failed to get a majority. The inescapable fact is that, despite almost every factor being weighted in favour of the Yes campaign, the Scottish people turned out in vast numbers to reject independence.”

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/herald-view/snp-should-now-accept-that-no-must-mean-no-for-a-generation.25375849

The damning conclusion that just about wraps it up.

Ninfan your link also shows that people were more likely to find yes supporters acting reasonably at polling stations

All this talk of media bias, and yet none on the fact that the vote was purposely tilted in the favour of a Yes vote, by the fact that only current residents of Scotland could vote.
So people who aren’t Scottish by any definition but happen to currently be living there (they could be from anywhere in the EU) were allowed to vote, but people who were born in Scotland but now happen to live and work in other parts of the UK were not allowed to vote.

The reason for this (this is purely my theory), is that the SNP know that the majority of those Scottish people who now happen to be living and working in other parts of the UK would probably want to vote No due to the fact being part of the Union works for them (or something like that).

Tbh the referendum is over. Is there any will to discuss this without point scoring?

I dunno – you’re the one trying to make points about the older people voting the wrong way because they’re scared. Or am I just supposed to let you get on with posting any old rubbish – BTW your 54% suggestion doesn’t stand up for under 55s using the Ashcroft figures either – I make it 51% Yes assuming equal numbers voting for each year of age.

according to the final poll

Interesting, and significantly different to the Lord Ashcroft poll (which had a rather higher proportion of over 65s voting yes). I wonder why the difference, or is it just that all these polls are unreliable?

Dream on THM 😆

I will, and on that note, good night. Sleep well!

So much anti Scottish sentiment in here saddens me. Used to really enjoy here but given that my presence is so evidently loathed, I can only think that I should leave.

So much anti Scottish sentiment in here

Really? Some anti-SNP sentiment, but that’s hardly the same thing.

Just as us non-Scottish people didn’t want Scotland to leave, we don’t want the Scottish to leave. (ninja edit) I also love Scotland and the Scottish

Where’s the anti-Scottish sentiment? I love Scotland.

There may be some truth in some of the stuff Yes supporters are saying but stating it as if it’s fact is ridiculous. So are some of the patronising at best and nasty at worst generalisations about No voters and their motivations.

If anyone can produce any evidence for any of their assertions I’m all ears.