Vote "IN" camp only seem interested in economic outcome?

Oh God! Now you’ve done it, don’t mention the Daily Mail in front of Mefty. 🙂

Have you read any of the preceding eleven posts on the page above yours?

Yes, however, I didn’t see any specific detail. I want to understand this further. A single super state with a single fiscal policy, common healthcare and welfare. Countries within said super state are no longer referred to by their native name.

But without immigrants and Europeans who would the Daily (“hurrah for the blackshirts”) Mail get upset with?

Junior Dr’s, NHS, Cancer and anyone who is a bit different.

A single super state with a single fiscal policy, common healthcare and welfare. Countries within said super state are no longer referred to by their native name.

Hang on – you think that’s what the EU wants? You’d have a hell of a lot of objection to that from plenty of countries, not just the UK.

Countries within said super state are no longer referred to by their native name.

You mean like no one talks about Texans and Californians? Why does that even matter anyway? If it were that important, why do people from the midlands not describe themselves as Mercians? Why don’t the French call themselves Gauls? States, countries, regions, cities all occasionally change names. Why get hung up on it?

Yes, however, I didn’t see any specific detail. I want to understand this further. A single super state with a single fiscal policy, common healthcare and welfare. Countries within said super state are no longer referred to by their native name.

So – you wanted to know (on a mountain bike forum) why “In”ers only seem interested in economic outcomes, and to satisfactorily explain that requires a credible and detailed outline of how a single super state (which no-ones called for) works? Riiiight…

I’m all ears. Closer integration is being bandered around on this forum by those wanting to remain. The current system for those already ‘closely’ integrated is breaking apart. Mass unemployment, rise of the far right in some european countries.

How will the UK being more closely integrated solve the current issues. The EU needs radical reform. And you either need to become more of a single european state OR you need to unravel some of the current flaws.

Please don’t compare the current the EU to that of states in the US. From a cultural perspective the states are much closer than each of the member states in the eu. And before you ask, I have spent a far amount of time in many states.

zippykona – Member
I’m on holiday in a non EU country. In the evening to for the restaurant the gents have to wear a collar, trousers and enclosed shoes. I really object to wearing shoes on a tropical island in 90 degree heat. The ladies don’t have to. In an EU country I would have worn flip flops and moaned about discrimination with the full weight of the ECHR behind me.
Out here it is you want to eat , you wear your shoes.

well that’s me sold. 🙂

I think it was a monumental mess up to give the common man a vote on something so important. I asked my father in law (who is ignorant) which way he’d be voting and he said out. I asked why and he said because he hates the French! This is what we’re up against and why the common man cannot be trusted to make a decent informed and conscientious decision.

I’m a remainer, and I’m interested in much more than economics.

I think that people are better with broader minds. People broaden their minds by broadening their experiences. EU citizens can take jobs in other countries; this is a huge opportunity for all of us to live, work and make friends around Europe. I’ve known and worked with people from all over Europe, some of whom are my good friends, and this has enriched my life enormously. I don’t want this taken away. Similarly, some of these friends have themselves worked all over Europe and many have now settled in other countries.

I have a Swedish friend who I worked with in Finland, he then moved to Austria to work with a mutual Hungarian friend, he’s now married an Austrian and has a family.

The more we move around Europe, the more we begin to understand other nations and their citizens, the more friends we make, and the more we can get on with living, working, making friends, travelling, learning and having a good time; instead of moaning about foreigners. This is a good thing, IMO.

you think that’s what the EU wants?

WHo knows what they really think but its always easier to make shit up and defeat that than deal with reality

See stats on immigrations for further evidence of their “thinking”

rise of the far right in some european countries.

The attraction of the right is NOT going to be diminished by preventing social integration and strengthening borders now is it? FFS.

The EU will comprise of three groups of members

1. A core group of largely N European countries who will have common monetary and fiscal policies and a high level of political union. Despite not qualifying on economic grounds France will be a member of this core group since they cook the best dinners and have very fine wine.

2. A second group of largely S European countries who will have either (1) a separate common currency, €-lite or (2) more likely newly issued domestic currency. Their policies will shadow those of the core group, but exchange rate flexibility will provide them with additional economic options rather than the crude policy of wage deflation and/or unemployment and social unrest. They will vocally challenge the French claims re both food and wine with some justification

3. A third group of stronger, independent nations largely located on the geographic periphery of Europe. This will include the UK. They will be active trading partners with groups 2 and 3 and will enjoy the many obvious benefits of the free movement of goods and services, capital and people across one of the world’s largest economic unions. They will not be members of the fixed-exchange rate system and will maintain(relatively)independent monetary and fiscal policies albeit with higher levels of cooperation regarding global tax co-ordination etc. They will also keep their status ex Schengen and maintain control over their own borders. They will enjoy political and legal independence while participating in the wider political debate covering the whole area. Their food will continue to improve although their wine will be recognised as promising but significantly over-priced

And Leicester City will win the 2017 Champions League beating Arsenal 5-3 on penalties at the Ataturk Stadium in Antalya.

Newly appointed Health Secretary Sajid David will have completed the full privatisation of the NHS, sold to an Indian private equity firm based in the Cayman Islands

Junior Dr’s, NHS, Cancer and anyone who is a bit different.

You forgot bin snoopers..

I was with you right up until an English based team won on penalties

Point 3 is probably as good a guess as we will ever get to see[not sarcasm].

I think it was a monumental mess up to give the common man a vote on something so important

Very this.

I can’t be bothered with this one other than to remind Jamby that both he and his wife are immigrants and wherever they live at least one of them will be an immigrant.

The more we move around Europe, the more we begin to understand other nations and their citizens, the more friends we make, and the more we can get on with living, working, making friends, travelling, learning and having a good time; instead of moaning about foreigners. This is a good thing, IMO.

I like camping in France.

I like Daft Punk and Pizza, lets vote in. Also Belgian Beer.

I asked why and he said because he hates the French!

Sadly this is something I can confirm. Pretty much every outer I’ve come across belongs in two groups:

1. The willingly ignorant who display overt racism of the like above who are obsessed by immigrants.

2. Middle class educated people who dress up their underlying racism with arguments about sovereignty, nostalgia for the Empire, the effect on public services of uncontrolled migration. This group is also obsessed by immigrants.

Basically, there is an entire group of people out there who span all social classes who have swallowed the right wing lie that everything that is wrong in our society is the fault of foreigners. The only people I’ve come across who are pro-leave and can argue their case without displaying some form of racism are lefty fantasists who bang on about neo-liberal elites and how leaving Europe will bring us closer to a socialist/anarchist revolution.

The only people I’ve come across who are pro-leave and can argue their case without displaying some form of racism are lefty fantasists who bang on about neo-liberal elites and how leaving Europe will bring us closer to a socialist/anarchist revolution.

Wasn’t Jezza Corbyn keen on leaving? 😉

Rule Britannia, Britannia rule …

The 1950’s want their politics back….

Wasn’t Jezza Corbyn keen on leaving?

Indeed, and even he abandoned his ideological fantasies when faced with the cold truth. Being what many would consider to be a lefty nutjob myself, I’m in broad agreement with the anti-capitalist arguments against the EU, however it makes no sense to leave if we remain a capitalist country. When the revolution comes, then we can think about leaving, but until then our best interests are served by keeping our noses in the trough.

Seems to me the more I look at it…. that I wouldn’t vote to join now, so why vote to stay in? 😕

No decision yet though. 😐

Sadly this is something I can confirm. Pretty much every outer I’ve come across belongs in two groups:

1. The willingly ignorant who display overt racism of the like above who are obsessed by immigrants.

2. Middle class educated people who dress up their underlying racism with arguments about sovereignty, nostalgia for the Empire, the effect on public services of uncontrolled migration. This group is also obsessed by immigrants.

Basically, there is an entire group of people out there who span all social classes who have swallowed the right wing lie that everything that is wrong in our society is the fault of foreigners. The only people I’ve come across who are pro-leave and can argue their case without displaying some form of racism are lefty fantasists who bang on about neo-liberal elites and how leaving Europe will bring us closer to a socialist/anarchist revolution.

I think you are being a rather judgmental with your ignorant remark. have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, people are voting out for the simple reason they don’t like what the european union stands for. Trying to say that everyone who is voting out is a closest racist is rather sad.

they don’t like what the european union stands for

It stands for international cooperation. You don’t like that?

that I wouldn’t vote to join now

I presume in your rhetorical scenario you’ve adjusted your world view to ignore all the things we’ve benefitted from and made that decision based on those factors not on how things are now?

have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, people are voting out for the simple reason they don’t like what the european union stands for.

I have considered that and discounted it pretty quickly when it became apparent that everyone I talked to who said they were voting out was obsessed by immigrants and came out with thinly veiled or overt racist rubbish. On the flip side I’ve come across a fair few self-confessed racists who are still voting in because they think economic risks alone are too high to leave.

Trying to say that everyone who is voting out is a closest racist is rather sad.

Isn’t saying that. He said some are very open about with such claims as we shouldn’t allow immigrants because they make no contributions.

I can’t be bothered with this one other than to remind Jamby that both he and his wife are immigrants and wherever they live at least one of them will be an immigrant.

Edukator I am very pro immigration, however it should be controlled via Visas, points system etc

love the EU for many reasons other than the economy. It’s brought big companies like Nissan and Honda to the UK to bring jobs to places where they were lost, it’s put money into revitalising rural areas like mid Wales and the Hebrides, it’s made things cheaper as I can buy from the whole of Europe with no import duty, it’s made it easier for me to go on holiday, it’s improved the quality of the beaches and environment, it’s improved funding for science (including research into medicines) and opened up an entire continent of jobs.

Japanese make a lot of cars in the US
The EU just gives us back a portion of our own money
I don’t mind showing my passport to go on holiday or applying for a visa for Turkey
What have VW done for the quality of the environment – vested interests to make the emissions tests nice and cushy

There are arguments all ways. Things aren’t just going to stop overnight, we will still do large amounts of business both import and export with the Europe

Trying to say that everyone who is voting out is a closest racist is rather sad.

I agree and he missed the fact that many of you are complete morons with no ability to grasp the fact. THat was a shameful overlook on his part that I am happy to address this gross oversight.

Happy now?

Japanese make a lot of cars in the US

You mean they place their companies where they have free access to a massive market……well who knew eh.
You cannot even make points that support your argument

On the plus side at least you are not a racist 8)

JY on the cars 🙂

From Vote Leave today – should we help African Coffee growers or German processors ? Asymmetric Tariffs.

My mother was from Sierra Leone so I hope you will forgive me being passionate about Africa. I’m disgusted that both the Common Agricultural Policy and EU trade tariffs keep African farmers poor and use your money to do it.

Continental European farmers are subsidised to produce more food than we can eat, distorting the global food market. African farmers cannot compete and are forced into subsistence farming, where one bad season brings economic ruin and a couple of bad seasons means starvation.

Tariffs mean that in 2014 the whole of Africa made just under $2.4 billion from coffee exports, while Germany made $3.8 billion. Germany made more money from coffee without growing a single bean than a whole continent which grows vast amounts.

Germany’s coffee producers need cheap, raw beans to make money, so there is no import tariff on green, unprocessed coffee. That’s why the vast bulk of African coffee exports are unprocessed. But there are import tariffs on processed coffee because it is in the processing, branding, packaging and marketing that Germany makes its money. These tariffs protect it from African competition. It’s the same story with cocoa.

How will the UK leaving affect EU tariffs?

When asked by Labour MP Rachel Reeves if he thought £4,300 was a “price worth paying” for Brexit, Banks said: “Well what I said was that if it was correct, even if it was correct it was a price worth paying to get back our own democracy. So in that sense that’s correct.

He added: “This isn’t about pounds and pence; this is about our democracy.”

Banks also admitted the pound would initially fall if the UK voted for Brexit, but “then it would recover – that’s the way of the markets”.

He went on to claim that any price rise in imported goods caused by the pound dropping would not be bad.

Banks said: “If you’re saying prices would domestically go up because the pound drops, yes. Is that a bad thing? No.”

😯

How will the UK leaving affect EU tariffs?

It would not but we could remove tariffs on finished African Coffee allowing those countries to capture the value add rather than Germany. I have no issue paying a premium for a German car but coffee ?

I agree and he missed the fact that many of you are complete morons with no ability to grasp the fact.

Easy Junkyard! Unless you have something constructive to say, keep your inflammatory comments to yourself.

When asked by Labour MP Rachel Reeves if he thought £4,300 was a “price worth paying” for Brexit,

Is that the 14 year ahead prediction that came out from the Treasury? If so, I think I wouldn’t have even answered the question. Gideon can’t get his figures right 12 months ahead let alone 14 years, so I wouldn’t read too much into the numbers.

Short term pain / long term gain.

flanagaj – Member

Is that the 14 year ahead prediction that came out from the Treasury? If so, I think I wouldn’t have even answered the question. Gideon can’t get his figures right 12 months ahead let alone 14 years, so I wouldn’t read too much into the numbers.

This is a completely fair point tbh.

Of course, the immigration forecasts in that same document are to be taken as gospel, according to the outies 😉

have considered that and discounted it pretty quickly when it became apparent that everyone I talked to who said they were voting out was obsessed by immigrants and came out with thinly veiled or overt racist rubbish.

That says more about the company you keep than owt else !

And 400 million years ago when the first fish crawled up on to the land, OUR LAND! with their barely developed lungs. Get back in the sea you finned ****.

One of my work colleagues is from Krakow and another is from Edinburgh. Both great guys, and I don’t get this attitude of looking to help someone based on being born and bred here.

flanagaj – Member
When asked by Labour MP Rachel Reeves if he thought £4,300 was a “price worth paying” for Brexit,
Is that the 14 year ahead prediction that came out from the Treasury? If so, I think I wouldn’t have even answered the question. Gideon can’t get his figures right 12 months ahead let alone 14 years, so I wouldn’t read too much into the numbers.
Short term pain / long term gain.

It’s his answer that I thought was pertinent:

“Well what I said was that if it was correct, even if it was correct it was a price worth paying to get back our own democracy. So in that sense that’s correct.”