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Ukraine
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relapsed_mandalorianFull Member
Word to that, they’d be royally bounced if they started sharing details. OSA and all that malarkey.
I’ve tried asking my mate who’s the former ambassador to NATO and the UN, and he reckons that you won’t get a squeak out of anyone close to what is happening day to day.
dazhFull Memberbut don’t act all bashful
Bashful? Quite the oppoosite surely? If you really want my view then yeah I do have a bit of a problem with armchair generals, because it often exposes an interest/enthusiasm for the weaponry and hardware of war rather than the victims of it. Talk of weapons and miltary tactics only serves to dehumanise the real impact of war and reduces it to a something akin to a game. IMO we should leave the macho military talk to the people doing the fighting.
piemonsterFree MemberBack to denigrating then
because it often exposes an interest/enthusiasm for the weaponry and hardware of war rather than the victims of it.
i_scoff_cakeFree MemberDo you need to be? If you watch the documentary’ Winter on Fire’ it gives you a pretty good idea of what the Ukrainian people wanted after the end of the soviet era, which they were denied by their pro-Moscow corrupt regime
But you carry on with your Kremlin apologism if you like. Are you enjoying the genocide? It certainly seems that way
I’m sure it’s not that simple, especially with the post-2014 regime attacking the rights of ethnic Russians in Ukraine.
The fact is that Ukraine had a working government pre-2014 and American politicians went to Ukraine to egg on what was in effect a mob coup. How would you feel about Russian or Chinese politicians appearing in Edinburgh to interfere in a Scottish independence referendum?
From another POV this is just another disaster caused by America meddling in the politics of other countries far beyond its shores.
MoreCashThanDashFull MemberI’m sure it’s not that simple, especially with the post-2014 regime attacking the rights of ethnic Russians in Ukraine.
Be genuinely interested in a source for that to see the “other” side of the debate.
blokeuptheroadFull MemberIf you really want my view then yeah I do have a bit of a problem with armchair generals, because it often exposes an interest/enthusiasm for the weaponry and hardware of war rather than the victims of it. Talk of weapons and miltary tactics only serves to dehumanise the real impact of war and reduces it to a something akin to a game. IMO we should leave the macho military talk to the people doing the fighting.
I have given some input on military aspects on this thread, because I have some (admittedly dated) professional knowledge. As have others, who’ve stated their credentials when challenged. I do so because it’s what I know about, so feel it may be useful to some. It’s not the only aspect but it is a significant one which may have a big impact on the duration/outcome. I feel it is valid to talk about it, amongst the many other important aspects, without fixating on it.
Despite my technical knowledge, I have a deep and personal understanding of the terminal effects of military munitions through personal experience. Trust me, it sometimes keeps me awake at night. The insinuation that I think it’s a game, do it to be macho or dehumanise people, or get some kind of sick thrill out of it is very, very offensive.
molgripsFree MemberHow would you feel about Russian or Chinese politicians appearing in Edinburgh to interfere in a Scottish independence referendum?
Umm, I’m sure I have no idea what it’s like for foreign powers to interfere in referendums…
doris5000Free Memberthanks for your contributions blokeuptheroad, they are always interesting and useful.
roadworrierFull MemberI think anti-war views are very welcome by EVERYONE here.
Haven’t seen a single person on this thread of more than 4,000 posts express support or enjoyment of war.
i_scoff_cakeFree MemberUmm, I’m sure I have no idea what it’s like for foreign powers to interfere in referendums…
We’re still pushing what amounts more or less to a myth even after the Trump/Steele dossier was debunked as completely fake?
squirrelkingFree MemberYes before 2014 and 2004 Ukraine was a state operating within the sphere of Russian economic and military influence. It wasn’t fully independent, but which countries are?
It was an independent sovereign state, as independent of Russia as Egypt is of Turkey. Could you explain why you think this wasn’t so?
Also interesting that you paint 2004 as a negative, the actual election winner was suspected of being poisoned by Russia and the eventual loser was the same guy that was overthrown, again, in 2013. The people of Ukraine clearly have no time for Viktor Yanukovych and his corruption and this is now being used as some sort of victim blaming.
MoreCashThanDashFull MemberWe’re still pushing what amounts more or less to a myth even after the Trump/Steele dossier was debunked as completely fake?
Er, no. I even had to look up what the Trump Steele dossier was.
We may have been thinking about other events to you.
inksterFree Member“Not sure how he can look at himself in the mirror at night.”
Vampires cast no reflection rememner?
nickcFull Memberbecause it often exposes an interest/enthusiasm for the weaponry and hardware of war rather than the victims of it.
If you understand the weaponry, you understand the effects of it, you understand what it can do and what it can’t do. By understanding what vehicles and kit is in say; the convoy headed to Kyiv you get a greater understanding about why it’s not being targeted by the Ukrainians, if you understand the difference between a T80 and a T90 it tells you something about the Russian forces currently deployed in the south. If you don’t understand any of this I don’t think you get a full picture of what’s going on.
supersessions9-2Free MemberEarlier Biden said that there would be serious consequences if Russia uses chemical weapons. The Russian guy on the UN security council is creating a false flag story to set up an excuse to deploy chemical weapons.
It’s a horribly grim situation but where does NATO go if/when they do use them? What other sanctions are available or is this the escalation point?
PoopscoopFull MemberSeems to me that thread was custom-designed for endless pedantic arguments.
Cheeky sod, it was designed to help me bore friends and family to death with useless but (to me) interesting facts.😁
On a more serious point, I personally do want to know about the technical aspects of the tools of war being used. I don’t get kicks from seeing them used but it’s another aspect of the invasion that I know I want to know about rather than be clueless.
I most definitely know it’s not a game, I’ve never been reduced to tears over a game.
lightfighter762Free MemberMy whole family both sides are all current/former mil and we do not really talk about UKR. Waste of time. Till it shows up on our doorstep maybe we will give a sh1t.
tpbikerFree MemberI see the government at suggesting that the public offer to take in refugees
Whilst I can bet my bottom dollar that none of the Tory elite will be offering up their second or third homes free of charge, it’s something I think we have a moral duty to consider if we can
I live on my own with 3 free rooms. Half of me thinks I should absolutely let some one stay in one of them if they are fleeing that xxxx putin. But tbh, sharing my house with a random for 6 months does not appeal in the slightest. Is anyone else going to consider this?
ElShalimoFull MemberI think they should all be given Priti Patel’s address, or Liz Truss’s. They can then sort out who created this shit show
blokeuptheroadFull MemberBut tbh, sharing my house with a random for 6 months does not appeal in the slightest. Is anyone else going to consider this?
Me and Mrs Bloke have talked about this. We have 2 empty bedrooms. It would depend on how long for and a few other things, but we came to the conclusion that we would very seriously consider it.
Kryton57Full MemberVery proud of Jnr today. They have a new very nervous and scared boy starting in class this week, a Ukrainian war immigrant. He speaks no English, and understanding enough about the geographies and situation Jnr has taken him under his wing at school and has introduced him to his friend Patrik. Patrik is Polish, and is able to translate enough so their new friend can communicate and understand what’s going on.
Its a tiny but lovely thing to do.
scotroutesFull MemberWe’ve already talked about letting someone use the spare bedroom. We have Slovak friends with family very close to the border so it feels very “personal” already.
roadworrierFull MemberBut tbh, sharing my house with a random for 6 months does not appeal in the slightest. Is anyone else going to consider this?
I have an occasionally spare bedroom so would definitely consider it.
molgripsFree MemberBut tbh, sharing my house with a random for 6 months does not appeal in the slightest
I would.
fazziniFull MemberIts a tiny but lovely thing to do.
That just made it very dusty here. Huge CHAPEAU to your jnr @Kryton57
RustyNissanPrairieFull MemberI see the government at suggesting that the public offer to take in refugees
It would help if that fit faced fat arsed evil POS could actually let some in.
*I’ve been in a 24hours news blackout so don’t know if Ukrainian’s have started arriving yet?
slowoldmanFull MemberThe fact is that Ukraine had a working government pre-2014 and American politicians went to Ukraine to egg on what was in effect a mob coup.
Well if it was American interference the Ukranian people seem to have been happy with the opportunity given to them. Let’s not forget that there have since been free presidential and parliamentary elections resulting in a landslide for Zelensky and his party.
blokeuptheroadFull Member@Kryton57 kudos to your lad, that’s an awesome thing to do. You are right to be proud!
nickcFull MemberVery proud of Jnr today
I’m not surprised what a caring thing to do, double helping of pudding.
kimbersFull MemberMueller investigation went as far is it could and results were
“It also found that Russia had interfered in the election “in sweeping and systematic fashion”, and outlined 10 times when Mr Trump possibly impeded the investigation.”
blokeuptheroadFull MemberThis is really interesting, if you follow the thread there is much more detail about the heavy criticism of the war, impact of sanctions and acknowledgement of military failures. This on a pre-recorded (so presumably approved) political talk show.
Just watched Russia’s main political talk show with notorious propagandist Soloviev (Mar 9). Couldn’t believe my ears. Two hardcore pro-Putin guests – Shaknazarov and Bagdasarov – acknowledged the impact of sanctions, military failures, and called for an end to the invasion.
— Maxim Alyukov (@MaximAlyukov) March 11, 2022
big_n_daftFree MemberIt would help if that fit faced fat arsed evil POS could actually let some in.
I think there a number of factors they aren’t talking about in play
They still haven’t sorted out the Afghans and more need to come here from there
There are a lot of Hong Kong immigrants coming in quietly, this may accelerate at any time
They probably are getting some scarey briefings from MI5/6
The civil service culture doesn’t rise to the occasion like the armed forces can, this was seen in Afghanistan. I can imagine the panic trying to get sign off for spend on the visa centres.
These aren’t excuses, it’s crap, everyone knows it’s crap.
molgripsFree MemberThat’s interesting. Maybe Putin is looking for someone to blame whilst climbing down.
andrewhFree MemberOn a more serious point, I personally do want to know about the technical aspects of the tools of war being used. I don’t get kicks from seeing them used but it’s another aspect of the invasion that I know I want to know about rather than be clueless.
I’m with nickc on this. Knowledge is good and the more we know about these things the better. If you hear on the news that, say, thermobaric weapons have been used it helps to know what one is and what it does to appreciate the significance of that news story, or if you hear that Poland want to give them 23 Mig29s you need to know tbe size of the current Ukrainian airforce to appreciate if 23 is a big number or not and what that might mean.
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Also, I have a spare room and was wondering if I should offer it out. Like tpbiker I’m not that keen on sharing with a complete random, but I thought maybe some sort of ‘meet a refugee/speed dating’ style thing could be set up, people who have rooms, people who need rooms, meet up, even virtually, see who you get on with and match people together? No idea how the practicalities of that would work.MoreCashThanDashFull MemberI’m not surprised what a caring thing to do, double helping of pudding.
Definitely
squirrelkingFree Member@kryton57 that’s just lifted me out of a (generally tired and grumpy) shite mood and given me a smile. Good for them.
More of this (as a nation) please.
ctkFull MemberWe had a Zimbabwean refugee live with us for a while. It was good experience for us and the kids, if you can – do it.
We don’t have a spare room anymore so can’t offer.
tthewFull MemberRe. the refugee in your home thing. There was an interview on radio 4 PM on Wednesday with a ex Syrian refugee and a host, sounded like an incredibly positive opportunity for both parties TBH. Then on Friday a woman from a charity that sorted it all out gave a little insight into how it’s organised, it’s not entirely a matter of registering your interest then a big family rocks up the following day.
It’ll be on BBC Sounds. From about 5.45 PM both days.
PoopscoopFull MemberUkraine offering large rewards to Russian pilots that defect with their planes/ helis. Not sure how likely it is to happen but their hybrid warfare campaign against Russia is astoundingly good.
Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) Tweeted:
The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense just published a promotional video offering each Russian pilot a reward if they defect to #Ukraine with their aircraft.USD 1 million per aircraft and USD 500,000 per helicopter.
https://t.co/a0oCin9MfR https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1502001711589830657?s=20&t=xdNSyZFrFxSmb0cUGAaQsA
eulachFull MemberInstead of offering spare rooms, nlaws and aid packages, what about stopping buying fossil fuels from Russia? Maybe if Putin saw that we were individually and collectively prepared to stand by our principles and not just make token gestures, he might take European opinion seriously.
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