Ukraine

A youtu e channel I normally watch for a bit of military history.
Today’s video is a bit different, an interview with a Brit at Heathrow, on his way to Poland and then Ukraine to join the Internationals.

Local butcher’s Facebook post today:

https://twitter.com/Arundodonuts/status/1501651904287412229

Got some stickers….

Will be handed out at protests in Munich in return for donations to Ukrainian aid agencies.

The non conventional weapons thing is really worrying me!

The non conventional weapons thing is really worrying me!

It’s worrying everyone really. But TBH getting out of this thread for a while, ignoring the TV news and doing other stuff will help alleviate it.

Yes it is going on, yes it is a terrible situation, but other things are going on too, and maybe concentrating on that and not being absorbed with this, is going to be better for your mental health.

It is a great strain, and you won’t do yourself or your family any good if you don’t take a break from it.

My biggest worry is how on earth you can negotiate a ceasefire with untrustworthy liars?

Yeah I’ve cut most of the news out.

Works stressful as its very impacted by Ukraine as I am in energy. So I try n keep it to a minimum but….

I’ve read this thread from day one it’s heartbreaking :(

The quicker Putin accidentally falls down some stairs after accidentally shooting himself twice in the back of the head the better !!

I’m hoping for the kremlin to issue a outlr glorious leader had a heart attack statement

My biggest worry is how on earth you can negotiate a ceasefire with untrustworthy liars?

I can’t imagine Boris and Priti will be trusted with the task

Whilst you jest, that’s really been the whole point of the last few months domestically. If you aren’t trusted nobody can deal with you.

Putin is a whole other level though.

“The conscripts are just following orders”. I’m sure that line has been trotted out before somewhere. And like last time they aren’t innocents caught up in the middle while the bigger boys commit all the atrocities.

I don’t care if it makes a bad person, but there’s a little pang of delight when I see a T72 or T80 brew up, or a BMP or BTR obliterated.

**** them.

“The conscripts are just following orders”. I’m sure that line has been trotted out before somewhere.

But that’s the reality of warfare.

Russian bombing of maternity hospital and deliberate targeting of civilians is a clear demonstration that putin regards Ukrainians as sub-human when it’s him who is sub-human.
It’s a mirror of hitler’s attitude to Jews, Roma and other minorities; the same reality applied there in that the protagonist was the sub-human who used lies and propaganda to further his aims and deceive the public.
A bullet in the face or back is far too good for putin.
⁰

I don’t think he considers Ukrainians any differently to Russians. He just doesn’t value human life full stop. At least not the little people. He’d do this to a Russian city if felt he had to.

A war criminal who will never be brought to trial.
Despicable, pathetic excuse for a human being.
The text book example to prove that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Worse than Stalin or Mao; even worse than Pol Pot.
In 10 or 20 years what lessons will we – humanity – have learned?
Not enough, I fear.

Worse than Stalin or Mao; even worse than Pol Pot.

I’m not sure we should be having a competition, but the three of them probably killed more people than there are in Ukraine.

I’m mot suggesting any sort of competition.
The numbers killed is no form of measurement.

frankconway

Worse than Stalin or Mao; even worse than Pol Pot.
what lessons will we have learned?

That you don’t know much about those 3?

Let’s not derail this thread again by trying to outscore each other and resorting to personal insults!

In 10 or 20 years what lessons will we – humanity – have learned?

Not much I am afraid because the smoldering fire will still be there for all that involved. The only way forward is to prepare for all possibilities because the next conflict will hit hard, very hard. Therefore, the next 10 or 20 years will depend on the outcome of the current situation. Notice every 10 years something happened in the world that is impacting on people globally?

I wouldn’t even bother mate, standard hyperbole. I also doubt that the Russian military differentiates between a lawful & unlawful order. I have a feeling an order is absolute in that mob. Disobedience may earn you a beating or a bullet.

This is one of the very reasons why conscription/national service not existing is a good thing in the UK. Like it or not a military needs to be volunteers, not pressed-men.

But Putin changed their rules so he could deploy them, they’re cheap and disposable labour.

But that’s the reality of warfare

A war criminal who will never be brought to trial.
Worse than Stalin or Mao; even worse than Pol Pot.

All died of natural causes.

Greek historian, Herodotus in 445 BC. Wrote, “Whom the gods love dies young.”

As in ‘Only the good die young’

Thanks markgraylish; saves me responding other than saying my knowledge of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot is some way above the average based on 40+ years of interest and self-education about wars, oppression and dictatorship.
My general point remains.

“The conscripts are just following orders”. I’m sure that line has been trotted out before somewhere. And like last time they aren’t innocents caught up in the middle while the bigger boys commit all the atrocities.

I don’t care if it makes a bad person, but there’s a little pang of delight when I see a T72 or T80 brew up, or a BMP or BTR obliterated.

**** them.

As with most things the reality it will be a spectrum from conscripts lied to, to essentially nutters who will be happy committing war crimes.

Cheering the death of even nasty people isn’t a good look but is understandable. I far rather they just went home and then let The Haig sort them out

I made no reference to how stalin, mao or pol pot died.

This is one of the very reasons why conscription/national service not existing is a good thing in the UK. Like it or not a military needs to be volunteers, not pressed-men.

The challenge to this is the Ukrainian law that prevents men of fighting age leave. It’s a brave thing to do in a world where typically they are the ones who flee the furthest fastest. Personally I’m supportive of the decision but plenty of people on here aren’t with their “cannon fodder” rants.

That’s a fair counterpoint, I do think there’s a stark difference between doing it for imminent national defence and waging war on another country.

The challenge to this is the Ukrainian law that prevents men of fighting age leave. It’s a brave thing to do in a world where typically they are the ones who flee the furthest fastest. Personally I’m supportive of the decision but plenty of people on here aren’t with their “cannon fodder” rants.

I don’t care if it makes a bad person, but there’s a little pang of delight when I see a T72 or T80 brew up, or a BMP or BTR obliterated.

This guy makes a very important point that those videos are basically Ukrainian snuff propaganda. I’m 100% behind Ukraine, but it’s useful to stop and think about what you’re watching.

Via Wikipedia –

White propaganda is propaganda that does not hide its origin or nature.[1][2] It is the most common type of propaganda and is distinguished from black propaganda which disguises its origin to discredit an opposing cause.

4/https://t.co/WufjdbdQCs

— Trent Telenko (@TrentTelenko) March 9, 2022

@thols2 some people simply like the war porn. Often people with stuff lacking in their own lives.

You know that video of the helicopter getting shot down? Made me desperately sad to think of the terror of their last few seconds – doesn’t matter which side, it’s all so bloody unecessary. :(

Made me desperately sad to think of the terror of their last few seconds

Yup. Reality is a lot of those on the Russian side are as much a victim of Putin as the Ukranians.
If Putin or some of those neonazi leaders of the wagner group were reported as having fallen down some stairs multiple times I would raise a beer or two but even then I would give viewing the photos/videos a miss and I dont think it would be so much delight as hope.

I see China is following Russia’s lead with the absolute BS claim of America developing chemical weapons etc in Ukraine. They are effectively green lighting a false flag operation if Russia goes that way. Utter *****.

China not even bothering to hide it’s true colours here.

I hope the world also begins to truly regard China as the threat it currently is and is to become.

it’s all so bloody unecessary.

Which is the great sadness, the Ukrainians would probably have given up Crimea and the bugs of D and L they don’t control just to stop the killing eventually. Now it’s an existential fight and so many will die on both sides for one man’s vanity

When people first started comparing Putin to Hitler I’m sure many of us might have raised an eyebrow, typical internet hyperbole.

Now it seems the comparison is apt and completely justified.

I can’t help but think the 21dt century is make or break for mankind.

Poops, China will always do what’s best for their long term interests and I would suggest that encompasses lying and dissembling.
Aeons ago I posted that their focus is always on the long term; short term tactical stuff is of limited interest to them.
Their objective, in my view, is to neutralise Russia and, possibly, relegate them to vassal state – support the econony but at a massive cost and make Russia almost totally dependant on China; drain it of natural resources inc rare earth metals, fossil fuels, minerals, precious metals.
You name it, China want it.
Xi is intent on global domination; doesn’t have to be in his lifetime – the long game.
Look at the the tech sector – China is world leading in so many areas.
Will post more later.

This is really worth reading; Boris Yeltsin’s foreign minister’s take on Russia now, and the mistakes made dealing with it in the past, and how to deal with it in the future.

https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/russias-ex-foreign-minister-on-his-totalitarian-country/

Aeons ago I posted that their focus is always on the long term; short term tactical stuff is of limited interest to them.
Their objective, in my view, is to neutralise Russia and, possibly, relegate them to vassal state – support the econony but at a massive cost and make Russia almost totally dependant on China; drain it of natural resources inc rare earth metals, fossil fuels, minerals, precious metals.
You name it, China want it.

No, China will not neutralise Russia because that’s not in their interest and will only weaken China. China wants to dominate SE Asia/Asia and pacific (Australia).

China wants to dominate SE Asia/Asia and pacific (Australia) the entire planet.

FTFY. Centuries ago, China was a world power. It was ahead in technology and military power. The Chinese leaders considered Europe to be inferior. China then turned inwards and Europe surged ahead in science and technology leading to European countries dominating the globe. China was powerless in the face of European and American economic and military power. China has a very deep sense of grievance about this. They were treated terribly, but it goes much deeper than that. The Chinese view is that China is rightfully the dominant power in the world and that the U.S. and Europe have denied it what is due. Their ambitions are not limited to Asia, they intend to dominate the globe.

China wants to dominate SE Asia/Asia and pacific (Australia) the entire planet.

I don’t disagree …
They do have that in mind.