UK Election!

Very skeptical that people will turn to smaller parties when FPTP still exists, especially in our world of polarised politics, where if you dont vote for one of the 2 main parties you are helping the other one,

far more people simply wont vote than vote for either reform, green or the lib dems

No Rwanda flights before the election

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/23/rwanda-flights-not-leave-before-general-election-rishi-sunak

I suspect this may be a part of the reason – not wanting to see the Rwanda policy collapse in a mess before the election

Yes it is, which is why instead of that, I was suggesting that folks can conflate people like Thatcher with people like Starmer because it gives them a sense of moral superiority

Can you remind me how many of her core policies he is undoing?

Very skeptical that people will turn to smaller parties when FPTP still exists,

I probably will – what is certain Is I will not be voting labour or tory or lib dem

Those who hate the Tories the most appear to be the people who most support Starmer moving the Labour Party closer to the Tories.

Huh?

It was Starmer who conflated himself with Thatcher and Reeves uses the rhetoric of austerity.

So you invest in off-shore wind. Great. What about energy storage? Solar? There’s just silence. It could be they’re squashing Ed Miliband out of fear.

It was an example. Labour’s plan includes increases in energy storage, solar, hydro, and on shore wind. Not all of it is part of GBE because there’s plenty of private companies chomping at the bit to scale up, and are just held back by Tory intransigence.

Nothing on aviation.

They’re looking at changing APD and airspace rules to shift flights to regional airports and reduce wasteful stacking caused by congestion. Not enough on reducing air travel as a whole… far too much hope being placed in future fuels, for sure.

Nothing on discouraging fossil-fuel use.

Come again? Moving electricity generation at speed to renewables, enabling people to switch from fossil fuel transport, home heating etc. Key word there is enabling, rather than telling people what changes have to happen and leaving them to fail to make them. Guilt isn’t enough, our whole national energy use needs to be changed… by government… not just be lecturing and taxing people for using what’s available to them.

Nothing on heat pumps.

Decarbonisation and grid upgrade needs to come ahead of any massive consumer heat pump roll out.

Nothing on rail electrification in the north.

The long answer for you is here…

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/GETTING-BRITAIN-MOVING-Labours-Plan-to-Fix-Britains-Railways.pdf

Labour’s plan include increases in energy storage, solar, hydro, and on shore wind.

cite?  What energy storage?  Where is the hydro to be installed?

I wasnt aware that renationalising rail, water & energy & boosting labour protections were so thatcherite/cameroonian !

On the plus side Farage has just said he is too busy campaigning for trump to bother with the UK.

A true patriot.

His work here is done

Luckily the only people saying it are centrist ideologues who demand unquestioning obedience to the glorious leader.

As opposed to the left wing idealogues who demanded unquestioning loyalty to the previous glorious leader.

Labour faction fighting and the right wing media are very capable of seeing Labour fail to oust the Tories.

I think a whole raft of ‘things aren’t getting better’ were behind the decision to go for the election now, and the stupid Rwanda scheme is a key one. They won’t be dealing with all of the litigation, political losses and sh1t fighting of possibly getting a flight off the ground. There may be a gimic flight before the election, where they round up 3 people with no lawyers on to a flight.

Wild prediction – Labour might find a way of getting David Miliband back in a government role. Obviously not as an MP, but perhaps as Lord Miliband and Foreign secretary with all his Thunderbirds/International Rescue experience [edit – and as previously foreign secretary]? Or as some kind of high priest a-la Mandelson back in the day…David Lammy might not like the first one of course…

Where is the hydro to be installed?

IIRC that’s mostly devolved, as part of the “Local Power Plan”…

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Make-Britain-a-Clean-Energy-Superpower.pdf

Why devolved? Got to take on the Nimbies, and the grid needs it to be as distributed as possible.

That’s the big challenge with renewables now… upgrading the grid paired with distributing generation widely across it… and closer to where people and industry are cited… it can’t all be in or near Scotland!

This thread is exactly why I am dreading the next six weeks.

You know you don’t have to read it don’t you? 🙂

Anyway, stories in the news this morning that some tories are trying to cancel the election by ousting Sunak and replacing him before parliament is dissolved. Christ I really hope they give that a try. It would be a fitting end to a shitshow of a parliamentary term.

I do not see anything in there about Hydro?  Again I ask where are you going to put more hydro?  ~We have room for a bit more micro hydro but that is small beer.

There may be a gimic flight before the election, where they round up 3 people with no lawyers on to a flight.

not according to lil rishi

Anyway, stories in the news this morning that some tories…

The death of any administration that’s outstayed its welcome is always chaos, but this lot are taking that to the extreme. I’m half expecting the incoming Lab administration to report shit smeared on the walls, food thrown about the place, torn golden wallpaper…

The “tell all” books that’ll come out in the next few years are going to be interesting.

Nothing on aviation.

Aviation emissions are 2.5% globally of CO2 and have increased by 65% globally since 2004 despite a 85% increase in flight traffic.  That’s because of modern airliners being around 16-20% more efficient.  The next airliner (2035) will be 30% more efficient than the last one and that’s not counting on sustainable fuels for part of that saving.  SAF is predicted to be 20% of fuel for aviation by the same 2035 timeline, so we’ll be seeing around 35-40% reduction in co2 per passenger km during that period which will accelerate toward 45-55% in the 2035-2055 timeframe as older aircraft are replaced and more SAF is used.  Aviation decarbonisation is a tough nut to crack due to safety and technology maturity requirements and so takes time. The best thing governments can do is support the companies trying to make the difference and tax the people flying which is exactly what Labour are proposing.  There’s little else that can be done without damaging the economy for very little gain – aviation accounts for 4.3% of global GDP and rising and that doesn’t account for mobility provided.

It’s worth noting that emissions per passenger km have almost halved in the last 20y, but (global) passenger numbers have more than doubled and distances have increased.   Domestic (flights originating from the UK) flight traffic in the UK is largely static and has been for almost 10 years.  That means that overall emission are dropping and will drop faster as newer aircraft come on stream.  Rolls, Airbus, FlyZero, etc are all trying desperately to make this happen faster, but it’s a process.

I think the possibility of the Tories campaign collapsing completely is underpriced. Sunak must know he’s going to lose and those around him know it too, local campaigners know it, their client press know it

More MPs stepping down, means no proper vetting of candidates to replace them, means social media not being checked and the likes of Anderson & Gullis being made to look like responsible adults!

Come again? Moving electricity generation at speed to renewables, enabling people to switch from fossil fuel transport, home heating etc. Key word there is enabling, rather than telling people what changes have to happen and leaving them to fail to make them.

But it’s devolved to local authorities, of which exactly zero will be prepared to put the idea of wind turbines or pumped hydro in their vicinity. Off-shore sounds good but is cripplingly expensive when there’s a perfectly solid foundation called The Ground.

Decarbonisation and grid upgrade needs to come ahead of any massive consumer heat pump roll out.

But if you don’t do one there’s little incentive to do the other regardless of the order. Nothing on EV charging provision or price controls.

Guilt isn’t enough, our whole national energy use needs to be changed… by government… not just be lecturing and taxing people for using what’s available to them.

But it isn’t, though. Where’s the policy that says that all new builds need to have generous solar panel provision and battery storage? What about something that says a new-build estate must have a segregated safe cycle route to the nearest town? What about dynamic road pricing?

There’s nothing about cyclist safety. No word on rolling back the new anti-cycling legislation.

ON hydro – large scale projects require valley systems to be flooded – suitable sites are hard to see.  I cannot see any large scale hydro being built again in the UK as I do not believe we have suitable sites anywhere.

More MPs stepping down, means no proper vetting of candidates to replace them, means social media not being checked and the likes of Anderson & Gullis being made to look like responsible adults!

Labour have fallen foul of this in the past… Sheffield Hallam anyone? It’s a good job the other parties have been on the case preparing candidates in good time this time… leave the Tories to dig their own hole deeper with a rushed selection. I think many a Conservative Association is going to be glad to see the back of Sunak after the election… he’s stuffed them with this one. Labour and others never trusted Suank with his insinuations about an Autumn election and planned for any time from May… if the Tories did trust him…. well… he won’t care… he’s going to be flying over the horizon and leaving them to pick up the pieces.

My wife has to watch every political pundit pontificating endlessly.

You mean she chooses to. Good for her, better to have an interest in something which can affect your life, and however limited you can have an input, than showing no interest at all.

Governments always affect people’s lives.

It’s easy for me.

I believe in social democracy and the Welfare State.

Won’t vote for any Party that supported Brexit.

Live in Scotland.

upgrading the grid paired with distributing generation widely across it…

Scotland ( contrary to that labour paper) has upgraded the grid significantly to allow renewables to be fed into the grid.  No mention of the access charges that make it very difficult to generate in Scotland economically

large scale projects require valley systems to be flooded

There will be very few new large scale hydro projects in the next few years, if any… instead we need many small ones. Might be different story if looking at longer term.

Huh?

It’s called “centrism” I believe.

Denouncing Tory policies while simultaneously demanding that labour moves closer to them.

Yeah it baffles me too.

I cannot see any large scale hydro being built again in the UK as I do not believe we have suitable sites anywhere.

There are several pumped hydro facilities being built but would tend to agree no more large scale normal hydro. I think there would still be some sites but the damage caused would likely be politically unacceptable.

Tidal would be an alternate candidate though.

Agreed on all counts.

Tidal is a 10 year not 5 year thing though… and laying down new renewable energy sources FAST will be the theme of the next parliament… so won’t come into play at this election at all. Long term though, we should be using it.

It’s easy for me.

I believe in social democracy and the Welfare State.

Won’t vote for any Party that supported Brexit.

Live in Scotland.

Greens?

Got any links dissonance?  Id be fascinated to see them.  I haven’t heard of any new pump storage projects ( not a dig – genuine interest)

It’s called “centrism” I believe.

Look. We get it. You vote Communist. Any government the UK is prepared to elect with our winner takes all system will look “right wing” to you. We get that point.

Denouncing Tory policies while simultaneously demanding that labour moves closer to them.

this is what getting elected in a rigged system looks like

I’m a pale pink wishy washy liberal ( copyright Ernie :-) )  I see labour as a centre right party now.

Tidal would be an alternate candidate though.

That’s what I used to believe until it was pointed out to me on here all the negative effects of a tidal barrage thingy.

I can’t remember what they were but iirc it was based on environmental issues such as noise pollution.

I cannot see any large scale hydro being built again in the UK as I do not believe we have suitable sites anywhere.

This might be controversial but I’ve always felt that Grasmere is a bit up itself, and it sits in a nice deep valley…

Look. We get it. You vote Communist.

Wow. And you even use the “we”.

Unfortunately despite your apparent appeal I won’t be dropping my opposition to right-wing politicians, whether they be in the Tory Party or the Labour Party.

I am however hoping for a huge Labour landslide on July 4th

What’s the wow for? You vote communist. It’s fair to say that any party that can gain enough support from voters to get the MPs to form a government will be well to the right of your politics. And the “we” is because I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one that’s failed to skip past you continually making the same point. Of course Labour has moved to the right since 2019… the alternative was to sit on the opposition benches feeling “right” for yet another term.

This might be controversial

‘Hear me out, let’s submerge sixteen tonnes of gingerbread and Beatrix Potter paraphenalia!’