UK Election!

That Pension headline, what he forgets to say is “Your private pension will be taxed, and sooner because we didn’t raise the tax threshold last year.”

Really pisses me off, you’re encouraged to save all your working life and the b’stards penalise you.

As for the National Service stuff, all he’s done is getting the youth to vote Labour.

121 business chiefs sign a letter backing Starmer.

163 economists signed a letter backing Corbyn.

Spot the difference.

NB, On this occasion the answer isn’t 42

Also, on the “national service” angle: how long before somebody suggests these young “volunteers” could be put to work fixing potholes?

I remember one of the reasons for Brexit being that the EU was going to create a European Army and “your kids will be forced to do National Service”. Vote Leave to avoid this.

Now the sunlit uplands apparently have a conscription clause included.

Had one boomer (retiree) complaining

We’ve neighbours in a similar position..£650k + house, two final salary local authority pensions (one of which is as much as mrs_oab earns as a 0.6 teacher). Still yesterday one of them was telling me that Labour were out to ‘do them over’, that life was too expensive, and they hoped one party would up the pension and reduce council tax to enable pensioners to stay in large properties….

I see what you’re getting it, and it might be true that the guy’s house is valuable, but if he’s been living in it for a while then that’s not income – it’s just an increase in the paper value of the house, and he’s living where he has always lived, nothings changed for him. £3000 tax on a pension is a lot of money.

Except council tax is based on what you paid when you bought it (inflation adjusted to 1991) so appreciating or not he’s never been rebanded since he bought it.

As for the Russian bot thing, nah. Maybe there’s some truth in recent years but the meme came from somewhere. Who mostly voted for student grants to end and then increase tuition fees to an entire degrees worth per year? For the constant erosion of our education and health system? Do I even have to ask about the B word? Who constantly beat down on my generation with their ladders safely pulled up behind them?

As I said, I know that’s not every boomer but I’m afraid the demographics don’t lie. Like I said, don’t take it personally, I’m not talking about the decent ones.

I remember one of the reasons for Brexit being that the EU was going to create a European Army and “your kids will be forced to do National Service”. Vote Leave to avoid this.

I remember one of the reasons for voting against Independence was that if we stayed in the UK we wouldn’t lose our place in the EU. Vote No to avoid this.

If it was the middle of the night and a Tory told me it was dark outside I’d still have to go out and check to be sure.

Just heard this era’s shameless media round whore du jour Mel Stride on R4. Zero substance, just soundbites and vague lies.

I think he must be under the impression he will be knighted for services to brown-nosing or similar.

🤦

If it was the middle of the night and a Tory told me it was dark outside I’d still have to go out and check to be sure.

You can tell when a Tory is lying.

Their lips are moving.

If it was the middle of the night and a Tory told me it was dark outside I’d still have to go out and check to be sure.

To be fair with all the cuts to local council funding under the tories it is quite likely there wont be any street lights on.

As I said, I know that’s not every boomer

Then please stop using language that suggests it is. This government has thrived on sowing division and othering people. We can either play their game and let them win, or accept that there is more that unites us than divides us and join together to defeat them.

This government has thrived on sowing division and othering people.

This. “Age Wars” now, sadly to become much more prevalent I fear.

Whats next? Inheritance tax abolition, Preferential NHS access, free parking or whatever for the over 70s?

Then please stop using language that suggests it is.

Unfortunately the entire concept of elections forces us to consider people as groups rather than individuals.  I’m sorry, but your group is the absolute worst in terms of what it’s been voting for.

If I were you I would take it as a compliment.  As a millennial I’m statistically on the correct side of pretty much all arguments.  If I was on the wrong side then I would have to be an uber-****.

As a boomer, statistically, you’re on the wrong side of pretty much all arguments.  The fact that despite that you’re on the right side means you are fundamentally better than me.

I’m par for the course but you’re better than your cohort.

As a millennial I’m statistically on the correct side of pretty much all arguments

No you’re not, you might be a statistic but you are also an individual. No one can claim to be correct on the basis of their demographic profile.

Then please stop using language that suggests it is.

It is accurate though when talking about the group. There is a reason why the tories are trotting out the policies they are and thats to appeal to the boomer demographic.

The same way that saying younger people are less likely to vote is.

“The same way that saying younger people are less likely to vote is.”

Not the same at all! It is akin to saying “young people don’t vote”.

Drawing conclusions based on a few percentage points for a demographic seems unnecessarily divisive and is doing the Tories’ job for them.

The last two pages of this thread seem to boil down to “stop over generalising because this anecdote of one proves you wrong”.

There is a reason why the tories are trotting out the policies they are and thats to appeal to the boomer demographic.

Yes. The big parties election / polling / stats / demographic / analysis information is extremely good and accurate at a macro level.

Unfortunately (from a Tory point of view) it is their policies of the last 8 years that have led them to the point where, to stand a chance of getting as many votes as possible in the right configuration, appealing to the over 70s* is the only course of action open to them.

It is either that, or row back from the nationalistic, punching down, culture war populism. They’ve painted themselves into this corner and it is going to cost them. But they’ve had long enough to get the loot into the ‘right’ pockets anyway.

*And, sorry to say it, but – statistically the boomers do have a gilded existence compared to the rest of us. Umpteen times more likely to be sat on a nice nest egg with a hugely appreciated property value and often final salary pensions too – and wanting to hold on to that wealth at all costs. They are easily scared. They also grew up in an era prior to large scale immigration, so it is easy to convince them any perceived decline correlates with that. How many otherwise ‘nice’ older folk do you hear say things like “the couple next door are Polish, but they are a lovely couple”? The personal relationship is fine, but the preconception is that they won’t be nice because they are foreign.

The election strategists aren’t stupid. Their masters are.

I reckon the use of the term ‘boomer’ is probably getting backs up a little, but the sentiment isn’t far off. Let’s be honest here, older folks are far more likely to vote Tory, for many of the reasons stated by fender above

stw may well consider itself the pinnacle of enlightenment, but I think the vast majority of the rest of the population will be voting in their own self interests this election. If the tables were turned, and the youth of today were prosperous and had any kind of perceived future under the tories whilst the pensioners were all penniless, I suspect the Tory vote demographic would be very very different

I’m sorry, but your group is the absolute worst in terms of what it’s been voting for.

If I were you I would take it as a compliment

You’re whole point fails spectacularly because I’m too young to be a boomer.

Division and othering encourages us to group people together based on very little information and make ill-judged assumptions, judgements and decisions. This is why a lot of us get upset about these throwaway terms, especially if they are intended to be derogatory and wrong.

My parents on the other hand, absolute **** nightmares!

It looks like Sunaks electoral strategy ( if you could call it that) is to completely abandon the middle ground and any pretence of representing the interests of their more socially liberal former ‘one nation’ moderate Tory voters.

They’ve now been led by the nose by Farage and Braverman to the far right outer fringes, to the stuff advocated by red-faced, drunk, angry and bitter retired colonels, sat in a wing-backed armchair in a private members club, waving a daily Telegraph about.

The Labour Party must be laughing their tits off. To go into a general election with your main (possibly even only) policy being ‘bring back national service’ is absolutely hatstand!

They may get a few hang’em and flog’em racist pensioners back from Reform but they’re surely repelling anyone who still has their own teeth?

Farage is to make a speech later today. He’ll probably suggest bombing the French coastline to stop the boats, at which point the hang’em and flog’em racist pensioners go straight back to Reform

It looks like Sunaks electoral strategy ( if you could call it that) is to completely abandon the middle ground and any pretence of representing the interests of their more socially liberal former ‘one nation’ moderate Tory voters.

I’m beginning to wonder whether this is deliberate. Many labour MPs desperately wanted to lose the 2019 election to extinguish the resurgence of the progressive left and I suspect the tory power brokers want the same to happen to the tory right. The only difference this time is that the leader is a willing participant rather than the opposite.

Many labour MPs desperately wanted to lose the 2019 election to extinguish the resurgence of the progressive left

???????

 at which point the hang’em and flog’em racist pensioners go straight back to Reform

Are they just stuck in a loop of chasing a majority of their current voter base, not realising that a majority of a majority of a majority could be quite a small minority? I.e. they start with 50% of votes from the previous election, then Labour or Reform come after their voters so they do something that appeals to a majority (60%) of their current voters and puts off the rest, leaving them with 30% of votes. Do the same again and they’ve got 18% , and again and they’ve got 11%, but each time they’ve ‘secured’ a majority of their voter base from a rival party.

I’m beginning to wonder whether this is deliberate. Many labour MPs desperately wanted to lose the 2019 election to extinguish the resurgence of the progressive left and I suspect the tory power brokers want the same to happen to the tory right. The only difference this time is that the leader is a willing participant rather than the opposite.

I think it’s deliberate but not for the reasons stated.

There’s nothing left. The rivers are full of shit, the youth have no prospects (thanks to losing opportunities like Erasmus and now being faced with National Service), the country has been absolutely gutted. There’s nothing left to turn a profit off, to sell to their mates or to privatise.

Everything is crumbling – Victoria infrastructure on railways is being washed away routinely, the roads are in a state not seen since before the days of tarmac, public buildings made from aerated concrete are falling to bits, councils / the NHS / public services are all on their knees, none of the Brexit freedoms have come true (or more accurately, all the Brexit lies are coming home to roost) and they’ve pretty much run out of people to blame for it all.

The fact that so many Tory MPs are standing down shows they have no interest in democracy. They don’t want to be in opposition holding the Government to account, they want to be the ones in power. It’s all they’ve ever cared about.

This is now full on rats / sinking ship. They’ll do what Cameron did the first time around; sod off somewhere on multimillion ££ “non-exec director” roles, consultancies etc and leave the mess to everyone else. Absolute scum.

Well listening to Farage, as predicted, he’s gone full Enoch Powell. Or maybe Tommy Robinson. He’s spouting out and out racist rabble-rousing

I expect the Tory party will now willingly follow him yet further right

???????

A quick Google turned up three MPs urging people to vote Tory. There may have been more.

Your private pension will be taxed

And so it should be, like all income over the threashold whether earned or unearned. I would argue it should be taxed more than earned income because there is no cost to earning it.

Pensioners get taxed too little IMO (I’m a pensioner in one country and soon to be in another). Those who are taxed too hard are the young workers who have no savings, no property, pay a fortune in transport to get to work… .

I would argue it should be taxed more than earned income because there is no cost to earning it.

?? Apart from the money I put into my private pension, agreed it should be taxed especially as it didn’t get taxed at time of input but extra because I didn’t pay for it is completely bonkers.

Pensioners do have other costs that workers don’t have though so pitting one group against another is not a good idea.

“Pensioners do have other costs that workers don’t have though so pitting one group against another is not a good idea.”

such as? I’ll be a pensioner in a couple of years, and I’d hate to see any unexpected costs coming my way…

“there is more that unites us than divides us”

Not while a huge mass of rancid jingoistic pensioners continues to vote tory there isn’t.

I am sick of the amount of age related predudice and sterotyping on this thread.

I am a “boomer”, and seem to be responsible for all the problems of society. I don’t think terms such as boomer, milenials, mamil, etc are helpful terms and only sterotype people.

For the record I helped with minor parts of the first Rock against Racism, took part in demos and other oppostion to the NF,BNP and other racist scum, Have supported other groups of workers by picketing etc.

I voted against Brexit.

I have never voted Tory ever and would saw my own head off before I did.

I will probably vote labour to make sure we keep the Tory scum out but will have top bite my tongue voting for a party led by Starmer.

That’s great Bruce but really it’s a bit silly to be so oversensitive about generalisations that are obviously meant as statistically relevant summaries rather than a precise description of every single person in that group. It’s just pointless pedantry and derailing to insist on adding “not every …” to every single statement.

Ok, “not every single statement”. But a lot of them :-)

I’m retired myself but have no qualms about blaming retirees for a large part of the country’s problems. They (we!) voted for brexit, they voted tory, time after time over the last 14 years. Not me, but most of this group.

“Starmer: I’m a socialist and progressive who will always put country first”

https://x.com/GdnPolitics/status/1795152888018370959?t=Y4BWSdYMCocskZOrT7HDjg&s=19

Man sure knows how to just say anything at all without any remotely cohesive meaning.

Add me to the list that gets bored with the constant ageist stereotyping on here. Dress it up how you like, but it’s exactly the kind of divisive othering the right wing popularists you would claim to despise revel in.  Even if the target group to be othered is different from theirs, the tactic is straight out of their playbook and deserves imo, equal contempt.

That’s great Bruce but really it’s a bit silly to be so oversensitive about generalisations that are obviously meant as statistically relevant summaries rather than a precise description of every single person in that group. It’s just pointless pedantry and derailing to insist on adding “not every …” to every single statement.

I think words are important – if you’re using a catch-all term like “boomer”, you’re including everyone who falls within that definition whether they’re guilty of what you accuse them or not. It’s just another form of bigotry.

Hopefully we have done the boomer thing to death and they now see the error of their ways.

Following up on Farages’ speech, he is 100% aiming at the tories now.  Even suggesting that why bother voting for them as it is a lost cause.

I’m a boomer too, born 60. I left school into the Winter of discontent, graduated into 3 million unemployed, worked on temporary contracts for the first five years of my “career” then moved abroad.

As a boomer I recognised how my generation, especially those a few years older did an exceptional job of accumulating wealth which they are now and always have been very reluctant to share. I’m all right Jack prevails even to the detriment of their own kids. I hope I’ve learned from the mistakes of those a little older than me and been much more supportive of my son in both time and money because like me he’s entering active life at a time the odds are stacked against him but with less help from the state than I got, and that’s in a country the Americans call “socialist land” in a derisory tone.

As a pensioner, I resent the stereotypers, reductionists, centrists and reactionaries you find amongst the young, all of them!