UK Election!

The water company bosses should be up in court and properly held to account for the shambles their blatant profiteering has caused

Theres just been a spokesman for the water industry on Radio 4 trying to play the victim card as if they’re being hard dome by that the government isn’t going to just let them carry on like the last lot did

I had to turn him off. Not often I try to put my foot through the radio whilst driving.

Because you were trolling.

FFS grow up and stop accusing anyone with a different opinion of trolling.

Do you think the 87% of Brits who are saying that they aren’t delighted with a Labour majority are all “trolling”?

It’s that sort of attitude which stops people freely expressing their opinions on STW political threads. And no doubt the purpose of throwing around the “trolling” allegation.

For the record I am delighted with a Labour majority.

I try my best and unless I wholeheartedly agree with the consensus it gets me nowhere.

Oh pauvre de toi. Honestly you just get the same voice that every single other poster on the forum gets, playing the hard done by victim of some imagined echo chamber or herd is frankly embarrassing. You are by far the biggest of big hitters on every single political thread, you voice is one of the loudest, if not the loudest. If you’re getting nowhere, maybe, perhaps, just possibly…its you.

^^ Ernie, that’s a little disingenuous, if factually true regarding “delighted” but the context is important here.

Labour’s election victory last week is no exception. Four in ten Britons (39%) feel positively about Starmer winning an overall majority, including 13% being ‘delighted’, but this is balanced by 35% being ‘disappointed’ or even ‘dismayed’ about the outcome.

I don’t think you have every trolled by the way, not once but the above can lead people to think you are unnecessarily bleak in your assessments on occasion.

For many of us a change of government is the only good political story for over a decade. Let’s give them a little more time to see how they do is all.

You misunderstood Nick, I get nowhere in trying to engage in reasonable and restraint political debate, is what I am talking about.

You proved my point with your baseless allegation of trolling – I can disagree with people without accusing them of trolling.

Ernie, that’s a little disingenuous

Not at all, I provided the link, only 13% are “delighted”, I would say about 99% on here are. At least it would seem that way.

And I am delighted btw, it’s more than just feeling positive which I don’t think fairly reflects what has happened.

I agree with Ernie on this.  He ( Ernie) is not generally trolling.  He has a very different point of view to many on here but his point is almost always well backed up.  I like his analysis – I dispute many of his conclusions however it almost always a valid point of view

Ernie is also right in that if you do not follow the consensus you get jumped on by a load of folk

You proved my point with your baseless allegation of trolling – I can disagree with people without accusing them of trolling.

But yesterday you were trolling. You might have started off ‘just asking the question’ but when it was answered, and your response to that challenged,  you went off the deep end and then stopped taking part in the discussion. That’s not disagreeing, that’s trolling, and TBH most folks on any political thread can long recognise your style and posts, and can tell when you’re having a pop because as you’ve said yourself on here on any number of occasions that’s why you post on here.

So, no one stops you, you’re not banned, you have a voice you get to have your say, so chill out.

Ernie is also right in that if you do not follow the consensus you get jumped on by a load of folk

I can’t actually believe I’m going to say this, but you know all the other posters on a thread aren’t all sitting in a room together, and then agree a course of action to all say the same thing, right?

If many individual posters pick up on what another individual posters says, then perhaps, maybe, shockingly they may all just disagree with you about a thing. I mean that is a possibility.

Well is there any point in grimep trying to engage in a more reasonable manner?

Certainly not from grimep’s point of view. It’s the reaction that rewards, after all.

You do not think looking after the poor, pensioners and workers rights is socially progressive?

I meant social attitudes – things like racism, sexism, LGBTQ+ issues etc.    Regarding politics, this is the dichotomy that we see in the UK. I think most people are happy to look after the needy, the old, the disabled, asylum seekers etc; the problem is that Tories have managed to persuade a lot of people that most of them are frauds, lazy, on the take etc.  Which isn’t true.  Thats the big problem we have here.

Well is there any point in grimep trying to engage in a more reasonable manner?

If he wants to do so, and back his statements of fact with reasoned evidence, he’s more than welcome.

Interesting use of statistics Ernie, if you add the ‘pleased’ and ‘not bothered either way’ that rises to 57%so you could argue that more than half who responded were not unhappy with Labour winning.

ernielynch
Free Member
Ernie, that’s a little disingenuous

Not at all, I provided the link, only 13% are “delighted”, I would say about 99% on here are. At least it would seem that way.

I don’t think I could have been more even handed in my post Ernie but the fact we disagree still is perfectly ok. Hand on heart, your post stood out purely because you and the word disingenuous are not something I normally associate. That’s not some back handed compliment either.

Anyway, it’s all good, the sun’s out and the rain has stopped. Well, here it has at least!

Well is there any point in grimep trying to engage in a more reasonable manner?

If he wants credibility then yes. Spouting off like that is getting him nowhere and inviting ridicule.  We’d love to debate reasoned ideas, but you can’t do much with propaganda-infused rants like that.

Water companies; not easy to resolve, and way, way more complex than the media portray. Letting them go bust, nationalisation, whatever – solves nothing but ownership status. It doesn’t address the facts around large scale investment and delivery. The system of regulated monopolies is the main point of failure, but on a nationwide basis, there is no appetite from any government to suddenly take ownership of the hundreds of billions of £s of assets, and tens of billions of yearly operational costs. When compared with other more pressing issues on the Sue Gray risk register, that particular iteration of a solution is a non-starter. The only realistic options are reforms that will take time and seem imperfect to most people, but such is the face of pragmatic compromise.

If many individual posters pick up on what another individual posters says, then perhaps, maybe, shockingly they may all just disagree with you about a thing. I mean that is a possibility.

Or – and this may take some getting used to as a concept – you might not be the one who is correct.

You do not think looking after the poor, pensioners and workers rights is socially progressive?

I wondered about that too.

Not at all, I provided the link, only 13% are “delighted”.

Aren’t statistics wonderful?

39% delighted or pleased (with a further 18% don’t mind) against 35% disappointed or dismayed.

Also compare that to Labour’s vote share of 34%.

Oh and that page also shows that people are more positive about Labour now than they were at the start of the campaign.

Anyway, it’s all good, the sun’s out and the rain has stopped. Well, here it has at least!

Gonna need evidence to support that, still miserable in Nottingham

faustus
Full Member
Water companies; not easy to resolve, and way, way more complex than the media portray.

I was just watching a panel discuss that, amongst other thing, on the Beeb.

The incredibly bad state of the prison service too, utterly depressing. At least the Tory occasionally… sort of… acknowledged it might just have been due to the Tory government.

Sort of… Very big of him! :/

Gonna need evidence to support that, still miserable in Nottingham

Costa del Kent, it’s always sunny here.

(I bloody wish!)

Well is there any point in grimep trying to engage in a more reasonable manner?

No record of them ever trying to be fair.

So – are they trolling. Or are they well read on STW, know that the left leaning bent of the forum is likely to pick up and challenge ‘alternative views’ and therefore decides not to bother trying to have a reasonable discussion and jumps to the type of post they made. In fact if you are that convinced normal debate won’t be honoured, why bothe rposting at all i other than to start an argument.

TLDR, it’s trolling.

you know all the other posters on a thread aren’t all sitting in a room together, and then agree a course of action to all say the same thing, right?

You obviously don’t need to do that in an echo chamber – they are politically self-cleansing.

Most people who don’t agree with the STW political consensus left the political threads a long time ago. The fact that I am still prepared to challenge the consensus is fairly unusual, even Mefty who has never been anything other than reasonable has pretty much given up.

Personally I don’t think political echo chambers are healthy, unchallenged people tend to develop evermore extreme views often based on questionable facts. Although I don’t doubt that this suits the majority and what attracts them, so nothing is likely to change.

The fact that I am still prepared to challenge the consensus is fairly unusual

Ernie, you’ve said yourself that you do it for jollies, please don’t try to pretend its some higher calling. If you think that this forum of any forum lets ‘questionable facts’ go unanswered, then you’ve not been paying attention. Any anyway, I disagree as to why most folks have left political threads, I think it’s because they’re dominated by the same people regurgitating the same arguments over and over again, and they’re dull.

theotherjonv
Full Member
Well is there any point in grimep trying to engage in a more reasonable manner?

No record of them ever trying to be fair.

So – are they trolling. Or are they well read on STW, know that the left leaning bent of the forum is likely to pick up and challenge ‘alternative views’ and therefore decides not to bother trying to have a reasonable discussion and jumps to the type of post they made. In fact if you are that convinced normal debate won’t be honoured, why bothe rposting at all i other than to start an argument.

TLDR, it’s trolling.

In my long rambling post yesterday I did mention grimep. Some time ago I looked at his posts, fleetingly, on other threads and from what I saw, nothing stood out. I mean to say, they are just normal STW posts.

I think he is trolling in this thread, to be clear but I think the posts really are based upon his political position. I do think, in his view, what he alludes to are the “problem with this country”. What I’m badly saying is that he is trolling but when grimep does say getting rid of ” wokeness” etc would make the country “better,” I do think he believes that. So in his way, “he wants better for the country.”

So… is the trolling just his personal way of venting (as we all do on occasion) or it is it just for the Lolz?

I’m not sure it really matters in truth in this instance but with mefty, though I fundamentally disagreed with him on many levels, I’m not sure if him no longer posting is particularly healthy for the thread.

I don’t know, far too much time on my hands to think about this sort if stuff there days.

Ernie, you’ve said yourself that you do it for jollies, please don’t try to pretend its some higher calling.

How does Milliband figure out that wrecking our north sea oil and gas industries makes us LESS dependent on “petrostates and dictators’?

The man is certifiable.

Oh well. Another generation of naive voters are about to discover the reality of loopy Labour in power.

Not aligning with your Guardian reader political echo chamber isn’t “trolling” btw.

 Mad Milliband has banned all new oil and gas drilling in the north sea, wrecking the industry, increasing our reliance on imports, increasing fuel insecurity and cost. It was widely predicted as he is a fully paid up member of the climate cult.

The oil was never for domestic consumption.

We import LNG because there is insufficient gas left.

And to reduce prison overcrowding they’re going to release more prisoners. Minimum sentence likely to drop from 50% to 40% of tariff.

Are you implying they’ve solved the court backlog in under a week and caused the prison overcrowding? Blimey that DPP experience is paying off to Starmer.

They’ve only been in a week. The terrifying Annalise Dodds is feverishly working on her woke identity politics legislation, which we are all really looking forward to.

TBH if you’re in the 0.something percent of the population it’ll impact, then it’s been a long time coming. I’m glad you’l finally be able to live your life how you want to.

Roll on 5 years

Indeed, just think of the mandate once Reform collapses and Labour inherits some of that vote along with the more progressive tax policies.,

“I think it’s because they’re dominated by the same people regurgitating the same arguments over and over again, and they’re dull.”

Yep. Plus the rolling discussions concerning or policing the ontology of the discussion thread itself. Going from prisons and water companies to bickering.

Ernie, you’ve said yourself that you do it for jollies,

Eh? What on earth are you talking about?

What’s this……. make up whatever wild allegation that you fancy?

Anyway I have made my point, you can carry on agreeing on whatever it is that you all agree about.

How does Milliband figure out that wrecking our north sea oil and gas industries makes us LESS dependent on “petrostates and dictators’?

Simple.

There isn’t enough north sea gas, there’s some oil, but nowhere near the quantities of gas that there used to be.

Our Gas comes from Russian pipelines and via ship from Qatar and North America.

Building renewable energy infrastructure means we would no longer need to import gas to run power stations or heat houses.

About that Milliband story

The Department for Energy Security and Net Zero has denied reports that Ed Miliband has banned the North Sea oil regulator from issuing any outstanding drilling and exploration licences, calling them “a complete fabrication”.

Earlier today, The Telegraph claimed that the new energy security and net zero minister had overruled his officials to stop the North Sea Transition Authority (NSTA) from issuing new licences, even those that were in the final round of approval with the regulator.

But Miliband’s department hit back at the claims, telling City A.M.: “This piece is a complete fabrication – it invents meetings and decisions that have not taken place.

“As previously stated, we will not issue new licences to explore new fields. We will also not revoke existing oil and gas licences and will manage existing fields for the entirety of their lifespan.

How does Milliband figure out that wrecking our north sea oil and gas industries makes us LESS dependent on “petrostates and dictators’?

Currently our electricity generation is closely linked to fossil fuel production. Reducing, or even breaking, that link by increasing renewables within the UK will stop us being at the whims of international markets where we use electricity. If we also move manufacturing and transportation away from oil, diesel and petrol use that will further isolate us from the direct effects of problems current and future in oil producing regions of the world. So it’s not just “no more new UK oil and gas fields” … that decision shouldn’t be seen in isolation. It is about transforming energy generation and use in the UK. And then there is the side effects of burning fossils on our climate… but you seem hell bent on rejecting the evidence there, so just concentrate on the social and economic positive effects of switching to renewables in the UK and not being dependent on states outside our influence for our energy supplies for ever more.

grimep
Free Member
Not aligning with your Guardian reader political echo chamber isn’t “trolling” btw.

Best contribution to the thread you’ve made grimep, no sarcasm. On that individual point, I agree.

Or – and this may take some getting used to as a concept – you might not be the one who is correct.

correct  but anyone who says there are not ” Pile ons” on here is kidding themselves.

faustus
Full Member

ontology

Nice word, going to try and remember that one! <Thumbs up>

binners
Full Member
The water company bosses should be up in court and properly held to account for the shambles their blatant profiteering has caused

Yep. I’ll never get my head around the huge dividend payouts, whilst running up huge debts and running the system into the ground at the same time. No pun intended.

In a better functional society that would be classed as simple criminality on an industrial scale.

Yep. I’ll never get my head around the huge dividend payouts, whilst running up huge debts and running the system into the ground at the same time. No pun intended.

Errmmm – capitalism?