UK Election!

If the HoC bars are closed or their use is in some way curtailed that will remove one of the reasons why farage stood to become an MP.

Before the election:

FT : Labour confident of ending doctors’ strikes after secret talks

Nothing has really changed, except Labour is now in government… getting to do what they said they would do.

I am totally against a bar in the HOC or Lords and as for being subsidised its an outrage.  We pay millions so MPs can get pissed cheap.    Letting MPs get pissed at work leads to all sorts of harms and any good it does could easily be done in a canteen / cafe environment

Charles Kennedys alcoholism that killed him was in large part due to the easy availablity of cheap alcohol at work.  How many staffers have been groped by drunk MPs?

If I had been drinking at work I would have been sacked on the spot

The whole stupid working hours culture is part of the problem. If they stopped voting at 6 (say) then a bar that opened at that time would be entirely reasonable, sensible even.

I said before the election (numerous times) that one of the things we could expect is for the junior doctors dispute to be resolved quickly. Looks to me like this is one thing they’re prioritising so I’ll be interested to see the outcome.

Indeed you did, I think they have a lot of priorities but this one is relatively easy to resolve so it’ll be one of the first policy wins. By that I mean it “just” requires negotiating in good faith and a chunk money.

It’ll show a willingness to engage with and resolve problems instead of endless culture war stuff and procrastination/ incompetence. The RW press will slag off any deal as “pandering to the lazy doctors/ unions” but to most people it’s objectively a good thing and makes that same RW press that oppose it look foolish and out of touch.

I think the speed of directional change has already shocked a lot of the RW, hence the desperate posting of Rayner dancing or whatever.

Do they still have a subsidised bar?

And restaurant.

Yeah, it’s pretty clear where that charlatan will be spending his time.

Plus he gets to engage the ‘2nd home’ scam. He and the others will be milking it for all it’s worth.

Meanwhile, poor old Clacton, one of the most deprived towns in the country will not be getting a resurgence.

FGS they haven’t done anything yet. It’s all PR.

Scrapped Rwanda, meeting mayors for talks on devolution, meeting representatives of junior doctors. That’ll do for 5 days in.

MP’s could just go to the many pubs around the area but I can see there are reasons why that isn’t so easy

They certainly always used to. Maybe it’s time to get those division bells reconnected.

In news that just broke my irony-meter, its the ‘Popular Conservative’ conference today. Yes, really. You couldn’t make it up.

Their founder member Liz Truss, who proved her popularity by losing a 26,000 majority wasn’t there, but other founder member Rees-Mogg, who also just proved his popularity by losing his 15,000 majority was though

Sounds like the ‘highlight’ of the show was a video message from other founder member Suella Braverman who sent a video message from Washington (where else?) where she’s at a conference of Steve Bannon conspiracy theorists. She’s now gone completely hatstand and just shouts ‘WOKE’ every 5 seconds like she’s got tourettes

Suella Braverman tells the 'Popular Conservatism' conference that the real reason the Conservative party just suffered their worst ever election defeat is because they failed to tackle "the lunatic woke virus working its way through the British state" pic.twitter.com/73Y5KEuzE7

— Adam Bienkov (@AdamBienkov) July 9, 2024

done on the first day in power – changed to ” there is some room on pay and I will also look at conditions”

Yep, it was always a big fib, there will be targeted tax increases and borrowing.

Regrettably, we make liars out of our politicians, never more so than during an election campaign. Labour dont have the support of their own TV channel or press and they would have been ripped to bits during the election on a tax increase/borrowing platform. If the Tories had won, they would have faced the same reality and they knew it, hence pressing Labour on taxes.

For what it’s worth I absolutely do believe that Starmer has no intention of inflicting austerity on the UK again. Is that the same as saying that every government department will be swimming in money? Unfortunately not but when has that ever been the case?

Starmer has always got flack for lacking an ideology. Personally I think he has an ideology but I think it’s tempered with pragmatism. That ideology and pragmatism won’t always align with mine but I never expected it to. That’s an impossibility and no politician alive will fulfill that.

there will be targeted tax increases and borrowing

As per the manifesto.

Sounds like the ‘highlight’ of the show was a video message from other founder member Suella Braverman who sent a video message from Washington (where else?) where she’s at a conference of Steve Bannon conspiracy theorists. She’s now gone completely hatstand and just shouts ‘WOKE’ every 5 seconds liek she’s got tourettes

The majority of the population have proven they are utterly sick of the culture war bollocks. For her to still be pushing it guarantees there will be infighting in the Tory ranks for the foreseeable. Good. Oddly, many of those that kept their seats were (relatively speaking here!) considered to be to the left of the current Nazified Tory party. What a surprise.

Starmer has always got flack for lacking an ideology.

When people say this, they mean: He does not share the same ideology with me.

Partly… I think they can also mean that as an MP (and now PM) he doesn’t wear it obviously on his sleeve, or tell those with slightly differing ideologies that they are wrong at every possible opportunity.

As per the manifesto.

They didn’t put the scale of extra spending they will do in the manifesto. Instead they made vague promises of ‘balancing the books’ whilst giving themselves a massive get out clause by saying they will only borrow ‘to invest’. Almost anything (except tax cuts as Truss discovered) can be described as investment, including pay rises for public sector workers. Labour’s manifesto commitments on tax and borrowing are largely fiction, in a good way though as they’ll no doubt spend a lot more than they admitted to during the election campaign.

I would also close the subsidised bars. The same MPs that passed laws saying that I need to be breathalysed and drug screened before starting work are quite happy to make policy decisions while off their heads on the old Peruvian marching powder / hard spirit combo.

No nickc – I mean I do not believe he follows a political Ideology at all.  He is not a socialist, he is not a thatcherite, he does not follow marxism, he does not follow monetarism.  He does not believe in trickle down.   He is a technocrat which is NOT an ideology

Closest he would have IMO is the same vaguely paternalistic attitude as the one nation tories tempered by some reality

I mean I do not believe he follows a political Ideology at all.

Seems to me he’s a classic blue labour type. Whether that qualifies as an ideology I don’t know but that’s his clear identity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Labour

“See that blue labour? That’s you, that is. That’s your policies, and they smell of wee”

</thread cross>

Ideology or not, based on the Wikipedia explanation of Technocracy

Technocracy is a form of government in which the decision-makers are selected based on their expertise in a given area of responsibility, particularly with regard to scientific or technical knowledge

I think I could stand to have some of it in my life! Compared to say, a Transport Minister who doesn’t understand that you need ferries to run a ferry company.

I would deffo settle for a competent technocrat over an incompetent tory.  I’d rather have a competent green or even a competent socialist but one ain’t on offer 🙂

Edit – the blue labour label may well be some of the front bench.  Its not really an ideology tho is it?

Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good TJ.

The only thing carried over from Blue Labour to the current Labour Party team is that there are areas of the UK where Labour need to embrace the flag to be accepted… even if that looks either trite or nationalistic to some.

I would also close the subsidised bars. The same MPs that passed laws saying that I need to be breathalysed and drug screened before starting work are quite happy to make policy decisions while off their heads on the old Peruvian marching powder / hard spirit combo.

I agree they should be closed while business is on, but that points to wider reform with a small r – start the day at a proper time, sit until 6 or 7 for four days a week, use Friday and Saturday as necessary for constituency business, don’t have ridiculous long recesses 3 or 4 times a year – basically a bit like y’know, a job. Then to meet security needs, etc., I don’t mind having a HP bar to socialise and do a bit of influencing but stop the abuse of it, treat them like employees if they get lairy, etc. and have proper penalties.

are quite happy to make policy decisions

in the main this involves waving a paper from time to time while generally snoozing and/or looking at tractor porn, and then filing through the correct door afterwards otherwise a nasty person with an indecipherable job title will release pictures of your w**king over a 1963 John Deere, or details of some indiscretion at a conference in a northern town during the early 90’s. It’s not a proper job with any actual dangerous responsibility 😉

At a certain level ideology is related to dogma. I’d rather have a technocrat who makes decisions based on rigorous evidence than someone who is an ideologist/dogmatist

Rwanda anyone?

No nickc – I mean I do not believe he follows a political Ideology at all.  He is not a socialist, he is not a thatcherite, he does not follow marxism, he does not follow monetarism.  He does not believe in trickle down.   He is a technocrat which is NOT an ideology

But you say that like its always a criticism.  Whilst political types like our politicians to be ideological and conform to expectations – the ordinary public actually just want them to be good at running the country rather than following someone else’s philosophy.

I think I could stand to have some of it in my life! Compared to say, a Transport Minister who doesn’t understand that you need ferries to run a ferry company.

You see, that’s the sort of inside the box thinking that brings this country down – not having PPE didn’t stop them boosting the economy by increasing profits during Covid; Dunkrik Spirit is what we need – possibly literally if you’ve no ferries!

You need evidence and expertise, but it’s not enough by itself and a common fallacy to believe otherwise.

“Is-ought problem” is centuries old.

suspic – closer relationship than that I think suspic – on both the right and left.  If the facts disagree with your ideology you ignore the facts

https://www.stopcalderdalewindfarm.co.uk/

Better on a featureless moor than on decent arable land.

But you say that like its always a criticism

Your interpretation not mine.  If I had meant it as a criticism it would have been ” he is only a ruddy technocrat”  I made it just a statement of fact.

Labour sitting to the left of the speaker. Finally.

It’s on TV right now, the Beeb.

Looks like the reform 5 haven’t got seats. Got there late I assume.

Edit:HoL at the moment.

A lot of very happy looking folks sitting on the right as well. Farron especially.

Reform lot standing by the entrance, chatting to IDS.

He is not a socialist, he is not a thatcherite, he does not follow marxism, he does not follow monetarism.  He does not believe in trickle down.

Belief in ideology has got us to austerity and Rwanda though, so if Starmer hasn’t been a professional pamphleteering back bench MP for years, I don’t necessarily see that as a bad thing. From what I’ve seen and heard I think I’d describe Starmerism (you heard it here first) as:

1. A re-centring Labour as the party for the working classes, as opposed to Blair who I think said something along the lines of “I want everyone to be middle class” and I think its a distinct from both the post-work utopia of the radical left and liberal individualism of the right,  in so much as ‘work should pay’ and we’ll be active to make sure of that

2. Securonomics (terrible phrase) The idea that wage stagnation, tackling global climate change, and conflict require active and positive govt intervention, not govts getting out of the way to “let the market decide”

3. Realist Foreign policy: nothing surprises me less than the foreign policy decisions taken in just the last few days of a man who was once a human rights lawyer.

kelvin
Full Member
A lot of very happy looking folks sitting on the right as well.

Reform lot standing by the entrance, chatting to IDS.

Yep, I can imagine that many of the surviving Tories acknowledge that a time in opposition is what they need now. I’m hoping a long time.

They are also counting their blessings to still be MP’s no doubt…

Ah, sorry… edited now… I didn’t mean Tories… lots of them missing… the ones that have turned up look very solemn.

Starmer has gone full woke already! Welcoming a record number of LGBT+ members, and praise for Dianne Abbot.

Sunak also praising Diane Abbot… and generally looking younger and more at ease than he has for years.

kelvin
Full Member
Starmer has gone full woke already! Welcoming a record number of LGBT+ members, and praise for Dianne Abbot.

That’s crashed the FTSE straight away. Lol

What a thoroughly nasty bitch this woman is…

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/09/home-office-flying-of-pride-flag-was-monstrous-thing-says-suella-braverman

mrlebowski
Free Member
What a thoroughly nasty ***** this woman is…

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/09/home-office-flying-of-pride-flag-was-monstrous-thing-says-suella-braverman

The worst thing (well… possibly) is I don’t even think she believes most of what she says, it’s far more nefarious/ mercenary than that. It actually makes her worse imo.

She’ll be leading the Tories into an absolute civil war… and they will still be outflanked by Reform on the right.

Madness.