UK Election!

Reform UK under pressure to prove all its candidates were real people.  ruddy ‘eck you couldn’t make it up!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/08/reform-uk-under-pressure-to-prove-all-its-candidates-were-real-people

To ease the frustration link

It really says something that those of us who voted in person needed to prove our identity at the polling booth, but Britain’s leading modern-day Hitler fashion tribute’s limited company was apparently able to run made up people for elected office in the same election.

This obsession with Angela Raynor is bizarre. Its almost like the 6 months of constant negative press attacks in the run up has influenced people so they cant let it go.

Even those who, apparently, are impossible to influence :wacko:

Britain’s leading modern-day Hitler fashion tribute’s limited company was apparently able to run made up people for elected office

And get people to vote for them

Reform UK under pressure to prove all its candidates were real people.

Theory is that if they had got 6 MPs then they would receive additional government Short Money for each vote cast. Not like Tice and Farage to work out new ways to grift off the tax-payer. Of course now they are MPs the scrutiny will ratchet up a few notches.

Does running for elected office in the UK require proposers and seconders as it does elsewhere? I hope that it will be investigated whether fraud was committed and those responsible prosecuted, given money is apparently awarded to parties based on vote counts.

Don’t call me Nora!

In addition to cameron walking away from sunak’s shadow cabinet, richard holden – he of chicken run infamy – has stood down as tory chair.

With a majority of 20 following a recount and after being foisted onto a constituency which didn’t want him as their candidate he clearly had no credibility so his departure is no surprise.

Don’t call me Nora!

On the subject of chicken runs… I hope everyone has taken rightful pleasure from Tory Anthony Browne’s failed one from South Cambs next door to St Neots and St Ives, where he failed to beat the Lib Dem candidate. It’s like losing two elections for the price of one.

We should really do the ‘apparently’ ai generated reform candidate. I mean it’s clearly in no one’s interest to look into that!

Well electoral fraud is a big deal and someone could land up in jail if it has been perpetrated.

“Does running for elected office in the UK require proposers and seconders?”

Yes it does, because someone asked me to support them. I said No because of conflict of interest though I think they needed ten names from within the constituency. But presumably a made-up candidate can have ten made-up subscribers (I think they are called)….

Edit- Here you are https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/guidance-candidates-and-agents-uk-parliamentary-general-elections-great-britain/nominations/completing-your-nomination-papers/nomination-form/signatures-subscribers

So Farage didn’t turn up for the first day at his new job, did any of the other reformers? There might not be much actual difference between being an imaginary candidate and a real MP. Forget about low voter turnout we’ve got low voted-for turnout.

On the subject of not turning up, the first survey of the vote suppression, I mean, ID requirements suggests that as many as 400000 people may have been prevented from voting after going to a polling station. And to everyone’s intense surprise that was unequally distributed, with 6.5% of voters of colour being turned away at least once compared to 2.5% of white voters. Also some evidence (though the sample size is too small to rely on) that voters of colour were several times more likely to be turned away because the “photo didn’t match” or because there was some issue in the name matching. And while the report didn’t cover it, I think we can safely assume it’ll have had the same biases as the electoral commission found last time, affecting young and unemployed people more.

That 400000 of course doesn’t include anyone who was deterred from even trying to vote, with 6% of all those surveyed who decided not to vote saying that ID was a factor in their decision.

On the subject of chicken runs… I hope everyone has taken rightful pleasure from Tory Anthony Browne’s failed one from South Cambs next door to St Neots and St Ives, where he failed to beat the Lib Dem candidate. It’s like losing two elections for the price of one.

Unfortunately our former oleaginous turd of a Tory MP moved to the adjacent seat (which was a Tory hold/win) and our newly redrawn constituency also resulted in a Tory hold/win. There are a lot of well-to-do mildly racist pensioners in both, though, so hardly a surprise. 😉

They don’t like foreigners, but they also don’t want the wrong kind of chap in the golf clubhouse either – no tats allowed on show and they don’t serve Carling.

So Farage didn’t turn up for the first day at his new job, did any of the other reformers?

It’s all showmanship, Nigel in Clacton gets his own media audience.

Also some evidence (though the sample size is too small to rely on) that voters of colour were several times more likely to be turned away because the “photo didn’t match” or because there was some issue in the name matching.

Happened to a (black) lady in front of me in the queue.  I was trying not to snoop but it seemed to be a discrepancy between a married name and a maiden name, something like that.  She just left, by the sounds of things she didn’t have anything else she could go and get.

amodicumofgnar
Full Member
So Farage didn’t turn up for the first day at his new job, did any of the other reformers?

It’s all showmanship, Nigel in Clacton gets his own media audience.

They certainly have no interest in dealing with their constituents problems that’s for sure. That could result in some interesting negative PR for Reform, given enough time. I still hope having MP’s turns out to be a poisoned chalice for them. We shall see.

They are basically already campaigning for the next election, they have no desire to be burdened with the drudgery of being an MP.

A fair few people on here will undoubtedly strongly disagree with Monbiot but what he says is pretty much how I read the situation.

The only thing I am less certain about is the path that Starmer will follow. It is frankly impossible to know that  with any certainty because Starmer is not a conviction politician with any sort clear ideological commitment, so Monbiot can do no more than make educated guesses.

And already Starmer has thrown up some unexpected and yet welcomed surprises. My level of pessimism isn’t quite as low as Monbiot’s, especially as Starmer has shown an ability to be “adaptable”.

But I agree with 98% of what he says and it’s well worth watching imo

Monbiot? No, thanks.

What’s the synopsis?

ernielynch Free Member

Ah nice, the thread descends into direct and personal attacks, probably time to get off the thread.

More broken promises than Sir Keir Starmer 🙂

:wacko:

Just looking at scotroutes quoting ernie from miles up there^^^, does that mean Ernesto is getting off the thread??

I didn’t know that Chris Philp had retained his seat in Croydon South when the polls gave him a 1% chance of doing so.

Any informed comments from the London Massif?

Dazh – so her buying that council house means less opportunity for others.  Thats a simple fact.

no it meant the council got a sizeable chunk of capital which they could choose how to spend; the fact that all councils are idiots and the governments let them is not really Angela’s fault is it?

Of course there is nowt wrong with buying property but buying a council house is very different because it reduces social mobility for others

well she sold that house, which then means it was one more lower-end of the market properties on the market.  If I were trying to justify it to someone at the extreme left – she just helped a young family get their first rung on the property ladder – and become more socially mobile.  If all the ex council houses were not on the ownership market property prices (driven by competition) would be even more ridiculous.

by your definition is anyone who becomes an MP (or MSP etc) essentially automatically no longer “working class”?

both sets of my grandparents were from poverty, and cradle to grave lived in council housing, thier kids all were able to buy. Now I’ve got multiple houses  I have built and I charge rent that doesn’t quite cover the mortgage.

they’ve privatised social housing.

A fair few people on here will undoubtedly strongly disagree with Monbiot but what he says is pretty much how I read the situation.

He’s bang on.

Just because people don’t like it doesn’t make it wrong.

People are going to justify Labour’s minimalist moves as capable and radical with zero analysis of the big picture

Rachel Reeves’ big first speech was full of utter guff. Nothing’s changed about her totally illogical position on financing the state. And they’re very much avoiding taxation discussion.

But for the most crackers of views Peter “Confused’ Hitchens is doing the rounds on Starmer saying he’s to the left of Corbyn and will be a disaster for the country.

Monbiot is a strange chap. He can often get it right but he comes across very badly in his preachy, holier than thou way.  This puts off a lot of people across the political spectrum.

I’m not watching half an hour of him as he’s probably just doing the same

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Buy

Half the proceeds of the sales were paid to the local authorities, but the government restricted authorities’ use of most of the money to reducing their debt until it was cleared rather than spending it on building more homes.

It’s not the case that local authorities could do what they wanted with the proceeds of the sales of social housing under right to buy. It may have been an unintended consequence, if one were being generous but right to buy has been a dis-intensive to local authorities to build social housing.

Quite why Rayner is coming under fire for taking the opportunity to provide for her family this way, as many millions of other families did, when she was a care worker in her 20s is a bit beyond me.

Quite why Rayner is coming under fire for taking the opportunity to provide for her family this way, as many millions of other families did, when she was a care worker in her 20s is a bit beyond me.

Did the last few years of politics pass you by?

The Tories needed ANY story/issue, no matter how trivial to cover up their corruption & incompetence, and their media buddy’s could then run with it.

These will be the same media buddy’s who’ll ignore any story going forward that shows their political chums in a bad light – COVID PPE criminal cases will get the bottom of page 25 treatment I forecast.

But for the most crackers of views Peter “Confused’ Hitchens is doing the rounds on Starmer saying he’s to the left of Corbyn and will be a disaster for the country.

You can expect 5 years of the daily mail in perpetual outrage

And we all know Reeves will ‘slacken’ her rules come the autumn statement

I sincerely hope the fiscal rules nonsense gets dropped but I fear Reeves is not the sharpest knife in the drawer and that she’ll stick to it. She describes herself as a social democrat, not a socialist, so at least we have been warned.

by your definition is anyone who becomes an MP (or MSP etc) essentially automatically no longer “working class”

Yes.  Obviously they are no longer “working class” earning several times the national average in a white collar job.  they can still have “working class roots”  I find this reverse snobbery of folk claiming to be working class when they are not irritating.  I forgot how many folk do this and how angry it gets them when challenged

MY objection to Raynors buying and selling of a council house is NOT due to all the nonsense around  the legality of it.  that was obvious made up nonsense by the tory press.  Its the morality of benefiting from a Tory policy that is very damaging and that anyone leftish should oppose.

A house for sale does not cover the gap in housing provision left by the loss of a council house.  You cannot buy a house when yo are on benefits

I am just going to point out again I think she is able, driven and smart and an asset to the country and government.

I will also point out that she has been sexualised on this thread and that she is now facing the usual tory nonsense about how she dresses etc.  Either too cheap or too expensive.No one has called out eitrher of those things but I got piled on 🙂

MY bad for forgetting how atttached with inverse snobbery folk are to the label working class and how angry they get when this is challenged.

All I said was I found her irritating.  .Not that I cannot stand her and think her a crook as I do to both Cooper and ~Streeting nor a dimwit like Nandy

Obviously they are no longer “working class” 

Maybe if we moved away from the ridiculous adherence to the class system and stop putting people in boxes…

In other news, it seems Cruella celebrated her re-election and launched her leadership bid by popping over the Atlantic to a conference of Steve Bannons far right conspiracy theorists and going full tinfoil helmet. The woman is truly unhinged. I hope her constituents are feeling proud of themselves

What a disgusting speech. And she seriously thinks she has a chance of leading the Conservative Party. Not while I have a breath left in my body. Moderate Conservatives need to stand up and be counted. This will not stand. https://t.co/1LgosCNDzf

— Iain Dale (@IainDale) July 8, 2024

I can also predict 2 or 3 of the folk who do this “pretense they are still working class” who will attack me for this.

I will also point out that she has been sexualised on this thread and that she is now facing the usual tory nonsense about how she dresses etc. Either too cheap or too expensive.No one has called out eitrher of those things but I got piled on

TJ is bang on with this point. I don’t agree with this view of Rayner, but some of the comments from others on here about her wearing shorts are a bit creepy

I’ll read Monbiot’s work, but can’t stand to listen to him. He’s a sanctimonious dick.

There’s a difference between claiming your corblimey myoldmansadustman origins and seeing the working class, people who sell their labour power, as an agency for change. G Lukacz claimed you can only get a completely objective view of society from the standpoint of the oppressed. Claims about ‘origins’ are often attempts to conceal a patronising and elitist attitude as discussed by Dan Evans (see above). It’s also a humble brag about ‘look at clever me being so socially mobile’.

Yes.  Obviously they are no longer “working class” earning several times the national average in a white collar job.  they can still have “working class roots”  I find this reverse snobbery of folk claiming to be working class when they are not irritating.  I forgot how many folk do this and how angry it gets them when challenged

ah, well I think we might have got to the nub of your problem!  Your assumption (a very middle class view if I may say so!) is that earnings equate to class… now I’m not a huge believer in a class system, and I’m surprised you are, but if you accept there is some utility to putting labels on people either they are some officially defined standard OR surely people can self identify however they want?  You arguing she is/isn’t really working class is exactly the rhetoric that feed the arguments about clothing – if she was really working class she wouldn’t be wearing that outfit, or mutton dressed as lamb!   You did say in your original post on the topic that it was your problem – but I’m not sure if you really meant that as you seem to keep arguing that she and others like her are no longer entitled to call themselves working class, and must instead use YOUR definition of working class roots.

But for the most crackers of views Peter “Confused’ Hitchens is doing the rounds on Starmer saying he’s to the left of Corbyn and will be a disaster for the country.

Peter Hitchins is a useful bellweather. A man who has never been right about anything in his entire life. If you just asume the opposite of what he says is true, you’re generally not far off the mark