UK Election!

Uncle Jezza, if you think Angela Rayner is a phoney, then is there anyone alive who would pass your authenticty test? ;-)

I find Raynor incredibly irritating  I cannot work out whyy – I think its the “I’m a northern gobshite” shtick and while she clearly had every legal right to buy and sell a council house for profit its hardly the act of someone who has left wing morals.

I think that says more about you @tjagain than her. Or maybe you’re getting her mixed up with Claire Rayner agony-aunt extraordinaire?

You shouldn’t take exception to others based on accents, appearances etc. Tut tut

I think many of them are true to themselves.  I think Raynor plays up the northern gobshite shtick and maybe believes it – but she left her background ago a long time ago.   Its just phoney

I did say that Elshalimo. :scratch: :wacko: B-)

 I think Raynor plays up the northern gobshite shtick and maybe believes it – but she left her background ago a long time ago.   Its just phoney

I see where you are coming from and she has got into a position where her background will be more and more distant I guess.  She could either take on a middle class demeanor or just carry on as she is – I would go with the latter.

So if she still lived on a council estate in Wythenshawe, you’d be happy with her?

northern gobshite shtick

Have you any idea how that comes across?
She’s from Stockport, so am I. So South Manchester suburbs. Most of the girls I went to school with are like her. Forthright, take no crap from anyone etc.  Why is that so hard to understand? You’re making yourself look very silly

but she left her background ago a long time ago.   Its just phoney

I grew up in a working class household, my dad was a coal miner (as an aside auto correct changed that to cool moniker!). I left that background around 50 years ago, it doesn’t mean I don’t still have empathy with it.

Its because I think she is phoney not genuine.

I lived in manchester for a decade.  I have friends there.  I think I can tell the difference between genuine and phoney.

But I did say its as much about me as her.

No binners – I would be happy if she aknowledged that she is a long way from those roots now.

You shouldn’t take exception to others based on accents, appearances etc. Tut tut

Has anyone got some suedocreme?  I have just been burnt to a crisp :-)

northern gobshite” shtick

bad news – it’s not shtick. She really is a northern gobshite :-)

every legal right to buy and sell a council house for profit

She sold her home in March 2015 for £127k making a profit of £48k apparently, Better than a poke in the eye, but if making this kind of sum on a house sale disqualifies you from being left wing then it looks like most of us on here have to vote tory.

Sorry, late to the party. Got diverted. So anyway, Thornbury – my guess would be, and call me a  conspiracist: she’s not in the cabinet because she’s not very good.

Its the fact it was a council house – so she has removed that house from the stock of council housing.  There is one less house for people in need to rent at a fair rent because of her.

No binners – I would be happy if she aknowledged that she is a long way from those roots now.

What would you suggest she should do?

Have one day a week where she has to walk back and too to Iceland to buy some frozen pizzas and Stella, in pink PJ’s and a pair of Ugg boots, smoking a Lambert and Butler?

Its the fact it was a council house – so she has removed that house from the stock of council housing. There is one less house for people in need to rent at a fair rent because of her.

When she bought it she likely just wanted some stability in her life, same reason many of us buy homes, and was probably not expecting to be the Deputy Prime Minister any time soon, which she wasn’t: it was over 17 years ago,

Shall we do people who rent out property now…?

Other way round Binners – like you do – embrace your middleclassness :-)

I have working class roots with a fair bit of deprivation – but I do not claim to be working class because I am not.

When she bought it she likely just wanted some stability in her life

You have stability living in a council house – thats the point  Her buying and selling it means someone else does not have that chance of living in a council house

Angela Rayner could easily tie TJ up in knots about his perspective on who she is I am sure.

Puzzled that TJ sounds a bit mansplainy with a whiff of misogyny when he fails to explain with any rationale why he dislikes her

You can’t win, can you? Either we want social mobility, the idea that someone from a council estate in Stockport can rise to high office, or we don’t. Expecting some kind of ‘My Fair Lady’ act where you drop your accent and pretend you’re middle class seems to be the opposite of that.

Interestingly, no-one was telling John Prescott to acknowledge that he’d left his humble roots behind before becoming deputy PM. Seems like a bit of a double standard.

tj – give it a rest; give me some examples which show Angela Rayner to be a ‘phony’.

You don’t like her? Fine; doubt she would be in the least bit bothered.

Referring to her in derogatory terms in definitely not fine.

She is confident, competent and has never tried to hide her background.

The rationale is that she is pretending to still be that person she was 20 years ago when she probably isn’t.  It is a difficult one because it happens to a lot of people and there is no right or wrong in if you should outwardly change to a different person.

I certainly have and embrace the middle class life I have while still remembering how shit it was where I was brought up and that is the key thing to me, as said above she has empathy with people still in those circumstances which I believe is not phoney.

It’s not just Angela, large parts of the new cabinet are far more ‘ordinary’ people compared to the Eton / Oxbridge that has been a large part of the last admin.

IDK if you heard but Kier’s Dad was a toolmaker?

and while she clearly had every legal right to buy and sell a council house for profit its hardly the act of someone who has left wing morals.

Oh give over TJ. I know loads of working class people who bought their council houses, including my parents and quite a few mates. In every single case it was the only way they could buy their own homes, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with working class people being home owners. Or are you one of these lefties who think all working class people should be poor and exploited by landlords and others? The whole point of being ‘left wing’ is to lift working class people out of poverty and enable them to better themselves. You seem to want to do the opposite.

There is one less house for people in need to rent at a fair rent because of her.

So we are saying that anyone who took advantage of a Tory policy can no longer claim to be left wing or working class?

I’m not sure you can blame tenants for buying their council houses. You can criticise governments for flogging them off in the first place instead of building more.

Puzzled that TJ sounds a bit mansplainy with a whiff of misogyny when he fails to explain with any rationale why he dislikes her

I did say I didn’t know why :-)  I am fully accepting the burn I got :-)

Dazh – so her buying that council house means less opportunity for others.  Thats a simple fact.  Of course there is nowt wrong with buying property but buying a council house is very different because it reduces social mobility for others

and exploited by landlords

~Which doesn’t happen if you have a council house but as a result of her actions its now one less person that can have a secure fair rent house so one more family is at the whims of private landlords because she removed that council house fr4m the stock

Its hypocritical

MOIlgrips – if you are supposed to be a principled politician but pull the ladder up after you climbed it?  does not sit well with me.

how has AR pulled the ladder up?

Because now there is one less council house for needy folk to live in with a secure tenancy at a fair rent.  ONe more family in need is left to the mercies of the privater rented sector.

Lot of griping from someone who couldn’t even be bothered to vote.

she removed a house from public ownership in a nation of 60 million people

Unless of course her actions in the next few years make it easier for needy folk to get housing in which case she will very much have lowered the ladder.

@tjagain – you need to go for a walk or a ride to clear your head. You are coming across as a vexatious prejudiced twerp right now.

You are also taking the moral high ground from a poorly informed position. You simply don’t know all the details. And bizarrely behaving like an inverted snob and a misguided champagne socialist at the same time. Give it a rest

To use a common Manc expression “No need for it !!!”

Listen to Angela Rayner in interviews like the ones she does with matt forde on the political party podcast and you will know it isn’t put on. She is highly intelligent and bloody funny, but yes she is def northern.

Northern gobshite shtick? – Showing some rather unpleasant prejudice there tj

I like Angela Rayner.  I feel her experience is similar to mine.  Actually, as a teenage single mum she had a far tougher  start to life than I had.  I like that she’s unpolished, and hasn’t lost sight of what it’s like to grow up close to poverty, if not actually in it.  I’d much rather have her representing us in parliament than another cloistered Oxford / Cambridge graduate (more of that in a minute).

I’m the son of a tool maker, and my mum grew up in a council house.  That’s pretty working class.  However, I also have 3 university degrees, one of which is a DPhil. from Oxford.  All of these were accomplished due to funding (via stipends and grants, and tuition fees paid) from the government of the day (a Labour government, btw).

So, should I consider myself middle-class now?  I could do.  I have a good job and a nice house in a lovely part of the country.  However, my attitude is still different (I believe) to those that had a more moneyed upbringing, especially those who went to private / independent schools.  I mixed with children from very different backgrounds at school, and I think that brings you empathy.  I would never dream of sending my children to private school, as I want them to have the same experience as I had, and they have friends from different groups.  In contrast, at private school you will only meet the same kind of people.

Anyway, I’m not sure what I’m trying to say.  Probably that your childhood has much more impact on who you are than what you accomplish as an adult.

Edit: I’m also northern (Burnley-ish) but don’t live there anymore.  The North will rise again.

Because now there is one less council house for needy folk to live in with a secure tenancy at a fair rent.

There wouldn’t have been one if she had stayed renting it either, would there?  You’re clutching at straws. Especially as you’re a private landlord yourself which helps to push prices up for those who do want to buy.

Anyway.  I don’t give a shit where she lives, I want to know what she’s going to do for the country.  You might think that having done something you think was morally feeble 17 years ago that she’s bound to do something immoral now – but I don’t agree.  She might, but let’s wait and find out.

The Truss Moment described and the short run upto it at the count.

For your entertainment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgrz2d77lgo

Elshalimo – I think there is some stuff not getting across here.  Its not snobbery or champagne socialism.  I just find her irritating because of the two things described ie the emphasis on the northern working class when she left that a long time ago – its something I have always found irritating when middle class folk claim to be working class rather than claiming “working class roots” and I find the council house thing hypocritical

I will accept fully she is bright, driven and able.  No issue with that.  You never know – she might even push Starmer to the left and probably quite effective in government

I far prefer her to Cooper for example who fiddled expenses to become rich – also legal but immoral and also to Streeting who takes huge sums from private medicine.

It’s not just Angela, large parts of the new cabinet are far more ‘ordinary’ people compared to the Eton / Oxbridge that has been a large part of the last admin.

There’s more alumni from Parrs Wood High School in the cabinet (2) than Eton.

According to my godson,  who  should not try and make it three!

large parts of the new cabinet are far more ‘ordinary’ people compared to the Eton / Oxbridge that has been a large part of the last admin.

and I think than previous labour administrations?  More state school pupils?  Can only be a good thing

I see I stepped into a bit of a heated debate!

My take is that I’m so bloody pleased that there is a debate going on about a Labour cabinet minster. I’ll say it again as it pleases me, a Labour cabinet minister. :yes: