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Tottenham Riots
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ilovemygearsFree Member
Houns – Member
Racist?!?? Are Chav scum a race now?yes they are if you read the guardian!
MrWoppitFree MemberHello, iloveallmygears.
You expressed admiration for the way the United States system of criminal law works.
What do you think of grum’s point that it doesn’t actually seem to be preventing the crimes that have you so exercised?
As it is self-evidently not working, why do you admire it so much?
ilovemygearsFree MemberHello, iloveallmygears.
You expressed admiration for the way the United States system of criminal law works.
What do you think of grum’s point that it doesn’t actually seem to be preventing the crimes that have you so exercised?
no i just expressed my view that putting murders to death or locking them away for ever stops them re offending, i didnt comment the rest of the system,samg59Free Member@grum – there are other, both military, and government organisations that deal with terrorism threats on UK soil.
ElfinsafetyFree MemberI’ll let you have that one Woppit, it being a Sunday an’ all. 🙂
I’m off for a pub lunch.
MrWoppitFree Memberno i just expressed my view that putting murders to death or locking them away for ever stops them re offending, i didnt comment the rest of the system,
Ah, I see. And how would you prevent those who murder as a first offence from doing it? The threat of life imprisonment or execution doesn’t seem to work.
MrWoppitFree MemberIt is interesting that, given the (some might say) “luxurious” conditions in which Norwegian killers are evidently imprisoned, that the re-offending rate in Norway is miniscule compared to our own, despite the harsh conditions in which our (and the American) prisoners ar kept, don’t you think?
ilovemygearsFree MemberMr Woppit – Member
no i just expressed my view that putting murders to death or locking them away for ever stops them re offending, i didnt comment the rest of the system,
Ah, I see. And how would you prevent those who murder as a first offence from doing it? The threat of life imprisonment or execution doesn’t seem to work.well it would **** well put me of!
grumFree Member@grum – there are other, both military, and government organisations that deal with terrorism threats on UK soil.
Maybe so, but it was a police officer that shot him, as part of a police operation (which was then investigated by the IPCC) so you were completely wrong to say this:
it was not actually a police officer involved
Unless you have some special secret knowledge that has been covered up?
MrWoppitFree Memberwell it would **** well put me of!
Yes of course, but you are a rather small sample for the purposes of evidence-based analysis, don’t you think?
ilovemygearsFree MemberMr Woppit – Member
It is interesting that, given the (some might say) “luxurious” conditions in which Norwegian killers are evidently imprisoned, that the re-offending rate in Norway is miniscule compared to our own, despite the harsh conditions in which our prisoners ar kept, don’t you think?thats as they like sending people to mental hospitals instead http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19199121
MrWoppitFree MemberSo, instead of punishing people who may very well be motivated into comitting their crimes by being disturbed (as in the recent obvious example), the Norwegians prefer to try and help them with therapy. Seems very non-judgemental to me. Hardly a punishment, I would have thought.
Unlike the American example, given the results, this might be the way forward.
ilovemygearsFree Memberif you want to believe that good for you, but its not true.. 🙁 Hospital force drugs upon these people, there not criminals there ill, the USSR used to use this tacit to stop crime as well!
MrWoppitFree MemberDo you have evidence that Norwegian patients are having drugs “forced” upon them?
And if they are – are these “bad” drugs that will not help?
MrWoppitFree MemberYour sudden concern for maltreated criminals is remarkable, given that just a few posts ago, you were wanting to kill them…
ilovemygearsFree MemberMr Woppit – Member
Do you have evidence that Norwegian patients are having drugs “forced” upon them?And if they are – are these “bad” drugs that will not help?
yes it help them to think the way the state wants them to think!
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=16206ElfinsafetyFree MemberJust waiting for this sudden downpour to stop, so’s I can actually go out… 🙄
ILMG v Woppit.
Good luck et bon chance, ILMG….
solariderFree MemberOn the BBC this morning, I saw a man trying to shout over the local MP calling for ‘Justice’. Would somebody please explain what he wanted?
A known serious criminal carrying a gun was shot dead by Police in what seems like an exchange of fire. The whole incident will now be subject to intense scrutiny by the IPCA. If that’s not justice I don’t know what is.
As much as people would love to believe that the Police shot without cause, the officer concerned must have had just reason to believe he was in danger. Think of the consequences to him professionally and personally now that he has to live with killing somebody.
This isn’t a case of racism, or any form of discrimination other than a criminal getting what was coming his way. How may of his victims had their cases so strongly supported? What about ‘justice’ for them.
I don’t mean to suggest that he deserved to have been killed, but he was free in the community rather than behind bars. His victims didn’t have such freedom from his crimes.
In our efforts to remain PC, we do seem to have tipped the balance somewhat towards the rights of the perpetrator rather than the victim.
neninjaFree MemberI dearly hope that some of the comments on both sides of the argument are trolling.
I would love Elfin to explain how Churchill is responsible for genocide?
ilovemygearsFree MemberI would love Elfin to explain how Churchill is responsible for genocide?
because when we went to war with Germany we won, and won by killing loads of Germams… Dresden etc,
MrWoppitFree Memberneninja – Member
I dearly hope that some of the comments on both sides of the argument are trolling.
Elfinsafety – Member
Soz to disappoint, but nope, not a troll at all.
Apparently not, in at least one case…
ElfinsafetyFree MemberI would love Elfin to explain how Churchill is responsible for genocide?
Here’s something for you to be going on with:
http://www.countercurrents.org/polya230109.htm
Oh ffs STOP BLOODY RAINING!!!!! 😡
ilovemygearsFree MemberElfinsafety – Member
I would love Elfin to explain how Churchill is responsible for genocide?
Here’s something for you to be going on with:http://www.countercurrents.org/polya230109.htm
Oh ffs STOP BLOODY RAINING!!!!!
yes history is just like that…..
CaptainFlashheartFree MemberFrom a comment on Teh Grauniad;
Last night I was so angry with people who choose this way to destroy my community. I live in Tottenham and I have been sick of the sneery ways that people regard us. Some of the ‘twitter jokes’ last night were really really sad and almost broke my heart with the way that some people thought this was a big joke or that Tottenham isn’t ‘worth saving’.
There are a lot of very good people here. The looting wasn’t a part of the demonstration. People came from all over London to ‘join in’ and the community I live in has been ruined.
Now, beyond the anger, I’m sad, desperately sad.
This wasn’t just about a policing, this was about mindless violence and aggression by disaffected and alienated youth and not just in Tottenham.
Meanwhile the people I know, the shops I visit, my neighbours have had their lives ripped apart and the community which is wracked by poverty and joblessness is further labeled and further disadvantaged.
I don’t want people to think that Tottenham is a hopeless place. It is my home and my community and I love living here but I really truly despise people who have destroyed it.Sums it up for me.
crankboyFree MemberIlovemygears you say the death penalty would stop you committing crime. Do not the liberal wishy washy punishments in this country have the same effect on you? or is there something you need to confess to the group?
HeathenWoodsFree MemberMaybe they want to celebrate the positive aspect of his life, and what he meant to them. He wasn’t born a drug dealer…
Oh you silly, silly naive relativist; sadly I’ve known, lived with, and watched junkies die their sordid, sad lives. Dealers are parasitic scum living off their own communities and should not be mourned for a minute. “Positive aspect of his life.” **** that, I can only imagine you’re still grooving to your Gary Glitter discs and bemoaning the cruelty of all those nasty judgemental types.
ilovemygearsFree MemberHeathenWoods – Member
Maybe they want to celebrate the positive aspect of his life, and what he meant to them. He wasn’t born a drug dealer…
Oh you silly, silly naive relativist; sadly I’ve known, lived with, and watched junkies die their sordid, sad lives. Dealers are parasitic scum living off their own communities and should not be mourned for a minute. “Positive aspect of his life.” **** that, I can only imagine you’re still grooving to your Gary Glitter discs and bemoaning the cruelty of all those nasty judgemental types.now that hit several nails on the head very hard all at once!
kimbersFull Membercfhs quote summed it up
i lived in north london for a while and worked with kids from haringey and tottenham, some of them were from nice middle class families some from not so nice situations all of them were great kids,
only as they got older they became more dissafected, as said before lack of good role models and desperately underfinded an innefectual social services (baby p was just down the road too) mean that the kids from the crappier parts realise that they wont be going to uni, they wont be going on holiday this year, they wont be driving a nice audi when they turn 17, tehy wont be getting an ipad for xmas etc etcthe real tragedy here is that such a large part of the richest city in the country is so desperately poor,
thats the real reason for this, poverty- 30 years on from the last tottenham riots there is an even bigger gap between these kids and the children of the city boys whos sky scrapers they can see from their tower blocks or ally pally
ilovemygearsFree Memberi lived in north london for a while and worked with kids from haringey and tottenham, some of them were from nice middle class families some from not so nice situations all of them were great kids,
only as they got older they became more dissafected, as said before lack of good role models and desperately underfinded an innefectual social services (baby p was just down the road too) mean that the kids from the crappier parts realise that they wont be going to uni, they wont be going on holiday this year, they wont be driving a nice audi when they turn 17, tehy wont be getting an ipad for xmas etc etcthat’s not a treason to be a criminal, lots of very rich people started of with nowt, they need a quality eduction provided by the state. Class dosent effect youre IQ.
KT1973Free MemberOh God, I wish I hadn’t started this now.
Not the thread- the riot
It was me you see 😀kimbersFull Memberand fwiw heres someone trying to make a difference in tottenham
http://www.thetrax.co.uk/%5B/url%5DkimbersFull Memberthat’s not a treason to be a criminal, lots of very rich people started of with nowt, they need a quality eduction provided by the state. Class dosent effect youre IQ.
or your ability to spell?
convertFull Memberkimbers – I think you are right but what is that makes these disaffected & disadvantaged youths think they can behave like this when the ones I have worked with in Africa are the most positive, upbeat and honest people I’ve met? And the kids in Swaziland could show the Tottenham youth what poor really looks like – owning a pair of shoes and eating more than a bowl of maize once a day are quite unrealistic goals for some these kids yet they are still such upstanding individuals (in a society with more corrupton within the police et al and reasons for disaffection than we could even dream of here). I guess it’s the geographic immediacy of wealth in their faces that makes them as they are or the delusions we roll out about all being equal with equal chances that get found out, or just some seriously warped western values shown at their most ugly.
ilovemygearsFree Memberkimbers – Member
that’s not a treason to be a criminal, lots of very rich people started of with nowt, they need a quality eduction provided by the state. Class dosent effect youre IQ.
or your ability to spell?exactly if i can make it any one can
projectFree MemberNobodys actually managed to say, where Boris is, and all the members ofthe governmeet, along with cameroon and the the other one.
Oh and tomorrow we will have the stock market crashing, along with more copy cat rioting/looting/wealth realignment going on.
brakesFree Memberhopefully it will continue to rain here in North London, the rioters won’t want to get their new kicks wet
yunkiFree Memberhopefully it will continue to rain here in North London, the rioters won’t want to get their new kicks wet
That’s got to be one of the most sensible comments on this thread so far.. 8)
grumFree Memberkimbers – I think you are right but what is that makes these disaffected & disadvantaged youths think they can behave like this when the ones I have worked with in Africa are the most positive, upbeat and honest people I’ve met? And the kids in Swaziland could show the Tottenham youth what poor really looks like – owning a pair of shoes and eating more than a bowl of maize once a day are quite unrealistic goals for some these kids yet they are still such upstanding individuals (in a society with more corrupton within the police et al and reasons for disaffection than we could even dream of here).
Um, S Africa is one of the most violent countries in the world. But perhaps the kids you worked with were less exposed to the constant bombardment of advertising that suggests your worth is closely tied to how shiny/expensive your new trainers are?
As above though, it’s not just absolute poverty – relative poverty causes all sorts of social problems, and not just for the ‘envious’ poorer people. And the gap between rich and poor (and the rate by which it increases) in this country is getting bigger and bigger all the time.
exactly if i can make it any one can
You’ve ‘made it’? God help us.
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