Tottenham Riots

it ant a interesting thread its just a load of guardian readers ranting on about how crime is caused by peoples social problems rather than them just being stupid scum.

People are also allowed to have opinions you don’t agree with – win them over with a cronstruction statement (like above) rather than just deriding as “dail mail”.

I’ve just seen it all before many times on here, can’t always be arsed trying to argue constructively. I just find it particularly abhorrent for all the middle-class IT managers on here to be slating people as scum as if we all had the same choices/opportunities in life.

edit: oh look it’s ilovemygears doing exactly that (*looks for the killfile plugin thread)

Also, does anyone remember how after the Charles De Menezes case (remember him? killed by police for ‘crime of looking a bit dark-skinned’) the police deliberately leaked misleading information to try and make their actions look more justified. So their accounts cannot necessarily be trusted and it’s no wonder people feel angry/disillusioned with the police.

i want to live in a country were criminals are treated like the filth they are rather than pampered by the liberal elite

Re: Elfin.

I don’t see how conflating the decisions of World War 2 leaders fighting to save the UK and the rest of the world from Nazism, with the life of a dead drug salesman is relevant?

I assume that the third photo is of someone I don’t recognise from that period rather than from the previous World War which was fought for entirely different reasons because otherwise that would be another illogical pairing that makes no sense.

The methods were messy and arguably innapropriate, but we are no longer in the position of risking life in a slave labour camp for disagreeing with A Great Leader of some sort.

I take your point about the entitlement of relatives to commemorate the dead drug salesman, but if others are doing it, it raises the question of the local culture and whether or not it’s a “bad” one that needs turning around.

However, many rich and famous people have lived a life of drug addiction without the attendant opprobrium that comes from those in the fortunate position of being able to be self-righteous.

Don’t think I’d like to live there, though. In fact, I’d probably do my best to get out of the *expletive deleted*hole as soon as I could for somewhere like – ooh I dunno, where I am now…

i want to live in a country were criminals are treated like the filth they are rather than pampered by the liberal elite

In your dream fascist society people as stupid as you would probably be sterilised, so it’s not all bad I suppose.

So, tell me why exactly a Human Being with family and friends shouldnt have any form of memorial to them?

Hi Elfin – because it reinforces a negative image to a young vunerable audiance and appears to turn the victim into a hero not the villain he was.

His death should of course be grieved by family and friends in private, not marked with celebration on our streets.

Just my opinion of course.

M

Also, does anyone remember how after the Charles De Menezes case (remember him? killed by police for ‘crime of looking a bit dark-skinned) the police deliberately leaked misleading information to try and make their actions look more justified.

And how just after Ian Tomlinson was killed, the police released a statement claiming there was no CCTV footage available. They soon had to backtrack when all the independent witness cam footage turned up though…

Millions of pounds has bin spent on the investigation into the murder of PC Kieth Blakelock. Three men were framed by corrupt poliice officers, and sent to jail for a crime they did not commit. Yet there has still bin no official enquiry into the death of Colin Roach.

No surprise then, that many people (including nice respectable White Middle Class folk) mistrust and resent the police.

grum – Member
i want to live in a country were criminals are treated like the filth they are rather than pampered by the liberal elite
In your dream fascist society people as stupid as you would probably be sterilised, so it’s not all bad I

i mean even in the USA they know how to treat criminals, and that ant no fascist country. Yes i expect you prefer to live in a country were the criminal has more rights than the victim,

No surprise then, that many people (including nice respectable White Middle Class folk) mistrust and resent the police.

Quite.

i mean even in the USA they know how to treat criminals, and that ant no fascist country. Yes i expect you prefer to live in a country were the criminal has more rights than the victim,

If you are suggesting that the US has an ideal criminal justice system then….well….oh….what’s the point.

i mean even in the USA they know how to treat criminals,

Life sentence for stealing a Mars bar, that must be the way forward.

His death should of course be grieved by family and friends in private, not marked with celebration on our streets.

Maybe they want to celebrate the positive aspect of his life, and what he meant to them. He wasn’t born a drug dealer…

And who are you to tell others how they should or shouldn’t mark the passing of someone they loved?

As I’ve pointed out; plenty of people who have done far, far worse are immortalised in statues, paintings etc…

it ant a interesting thread its just a load of guardian readers ranting on about how crime is caused by peoples social problems rather than them just being stupid scum.

You really are quite exceptionally stupid aren’t you? I’ve spoken to things with tails that were less stupid.

i mean even in the USA they know how to treat criminals, and that ant no fascist country.

Yes, and their strict approach is so successful that there is no crime there at all now.

Jamie – Member
i mean even in the USA they know how to treat criminals, and that ant no fascist country. Yes i expect you prefer to live in a country were the criminal has more rights than the victim,
If you are suggesting that the US has an ideal criminal justice system then….well….oh….

im just saying that for instance if you kill a child you going to fry, if you shot some one for drugs you going to spend the rest of you life locked up. criminals are considered to be shit, not like hear were they have human rights, **** that brake in to my house and im going to kill you! life should mean life and killing a child should mean death!

You really are quite exceptionally stupid aren’t you? I’ve spoken to things with tails that were less stupid.

😆

That’s made me laugh so hard I almost ended up choking…

i mean even in the USA they know how to treat criminals

No one is going to top that today.

Have a banana, in fact have several

Just out curiosity Elfin(because it’s getting off topic) would you be happy, nay celebrate in photo, if someone who disagreed with this drug dealer’s life choices defiled/added pithy visual commentary to his “memorial” like the one of Churchill above?

yossarian – Member
it ant a interesting thread its just a load of guardian readers ranting on about how crime is caused by peoples social problems rather than them just being stupid scum.
You really are quite exceptionally stupid aren’t you? I’ve spoken to things with tails that were less stupid.

are you geting mad….i think you are…

It’s always interesting to see what the world looks like to those who think that there are simple (usually, in this case, violent and repressive) solutions to hugely complicated problems, so I think “ilovemygears” contributions are valuable as a glimpse into the one-dimensional world of the sorrowfully intellectually challenged amongst us. 😉

Was the guy who was killed entirely to blame and was his death the only way to end that particular incident – probably not.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Guy probably had a gun on him, but there was probably a copper with an itchy trigger finger involved somewhere along the line.

If the guy had a gun on him and based on the fact that it was an intelligence led operation and a gun was recovered it seems this is the case, there was probably little room for manouvre to end it differently – the only variable being if the guy put’s the gun down or lifts it up when stopped.

If a gun is being carried there are tremendous restrictions on what you can do to end the situation. One cannot let guns “run” who knows if it was going to be used on a member of the public, disapear back in to the “underworld” to be used again and you cannot front the carrier without armed officers. As regards police with itchy fingers this indicates you have no experience in this sort of work, AFO’s are not that sort of officer, that’s why they’ve got the guns.

Tragic end for the guy but when it comes down to it in an armed stop if you don’t put the gun down and comply it doesn’t end well, it should also be added that this is a very rare occurence given the amount of armed stops in London alone.

Wun…

Bah! Foiled by Woppit, no less!!! 😡

Just out curiosity Elfin(because it’s getting off topic) would you be happy, nay celebrate in photo, if someone who disagreed with this drug dealer’s life choices defiled/added pithy visual commentary to his “memorial”?

Well, as it would be in a public place, then I spose they would be free to make their own statement too. Might not be seen in the best possible taste, but there you go.

god people are **** stupid gun crime is our of control buy when they do some thing about if they get shit…that guy was prepared to live by the gun, so its only right he died by the gun..

god people are **** stupid gun crime is our of control

Yes, we need to be more like America, where there is no gun crime.

Bah! Foiled by Woppit, no less!!!

Again… 8)

I am following “grum’s” attempt to introduce the world of evidence-based logical inference to “iloveallmygears”.

I wouldn’t bet on the penny dropping through the noise of “..gears’s” nail hammering, though…

no we need to have a country were criminals are harshly punished for serious crimes, they are not at the moment! People need to see that crime does not pay,

@Kilo

very well said

ilovemygears, I think that Stefan Ivan Kiszko or Gilbert “Danny” McNamee, among others, might disagree with your over simplistic ideas of justice.

And who are you to tell others how they should or shouldn’t mark the passing of someone they loved?

Dude, as I said, just my opinion. It was my community, I served it loyally fof over 10th years, working the streets, treating all as they wished to be treated. It’s a complex borough with complex problems. Roadside shrines to heroin dealers was just more nails in the coffin for me and I’ve moved out after 40 years in the surrounding areas. The area needs more positive role models and examples to grab the kids attentions and give them visions to aspire to. Not to grow up thinking its ok to die young in a life of crime and be immortalised on a street wall somewhere.

As regards police with itchy fingers this indicates you have no experience in this sort of work

What kind of police was it that shot Charles De Menezes?

I am following “grum’s” attempt to introduce the world of evidence-based logical inference to “iloveallmygears”.

simple logic for you dead gangsters can no longer commit crime, dead criminals never re-offend!

People need to see that crime does not pay

are criminals charity workers then….. or something ?

As regards police with itchy fingers this indicates you have no experience in this sort of work

What kind of police was it that shot Charles De Menezes?

grum – Wether you beleive this or not, it was not actually a police officer involved – regardless of what the media says.

This crim certainly won’t be re-offending, will he?

no we need to have a country were criminals are harshly punished for serious crimes, they are not at the moment! People need to see that crime does not pay

ILMG, we need to get together and work on a manifesto!

As for my comments being taken as racist, I’m just severley intolerant of Tw**s and those who make excuses for tw***ish behaviour.

Stefan Ivan Kiszko
if he wasn’t in the country illegal he wouldn’t have been shot. and if he was a suicide bomber and he was not shot every one would complane..

Gilbert “Danny” McNamee

Despite quashing McNamee’s conviction, the appeal judges stated, “The Crown makes a strong case that the appellant [McNamee] was guilty of a conspiracy to cause explosions.”

ILMG, we need to get together and work on a manifesto!

🙂

grum – Wether you beleive this or not, it was not actually a police officer involved – regardless of what the media says.

Eh? Who was it then? In the official inquest they talked to a Police Officer known as ‘C12’ from CO19

CO19 is the branch name given to the Specialist Firearm Command branch of the Metropolitan Police Service that provides firearms-related support to our unarmed colleagues.

Was he lying?

I’m just severley intolerant of Tw**s

The self-loathing is palpable.