These energy price rises…

Or stop building crap housing as we do at the moment.

The people to be cross at are our ‘leaders’, builders and ourselves.

Why what’s wrong with the building regs ? The energy efficiency requirements have been repeatedly tighten up for the last 50 years.

And why are you blaming builders ? Builders don’t write the regs.

EDIT : “hence the need to choose to flatten more houses.”

But apparently you don’t like the energy efficiency requirements on new housing, so what’s the point ?

Difference is meeting insulation regs while barely scraping together a building .

My favorite is the lack of sarkin in roofs these days – truss – membrane – tile

Awesome.

My favorite is the lack of sarkin in roofs these days – truss – membrane – tile

😕 What are you talking about ? Lofts have to be insulated. And maintaining a cold well ventilated roof can be quite desirable, unless you don’t mind condensation issues.

Why what’s wrong with the building reg

They are poor, where energy efficiency is concerned. Detailing is appalling. Designed vs built is shocking. Enforcement is lacking.
So our buildings should perform reasonably. Reality is far from it.

Our last house was built in 1998, and tbh it was the cheapest house I’ve ever lived from a heating perspective. Very warm and no draughts, in fact sometimes we’d open a window in winter just to cool down.

So it’s not all crap.

They are poor, where energy efficiency is concerned

Well go on then, hit me with it……..how would you improve the building regs ?

And explain why you want new housing to be built as in “the need to choose to flatten more houses”
if you don’t like the way that new housing is built ?

It is worth checking you’ve done everything you can. For instance (after living in our house for 12 years) I knew we didn’t have cavity wall, but thought we had done everything else possible. But:

One day, whilst I was in the loft working out a wiring run, I discovered that the boarded section of our loft wasn’t insulated AT ALL! That’s about 60% of the roof area and 12 winters of gas Central heating working full blast. Couldn’t believe it.

Then, whilst we were on holiday this summer I noticed that we used 16 cubic metres of gas in 10 days and we weren’t even at home! On investigation I realised our water heating was controlled with a thermocouple at the boiler, not a cylinder stat, meaning that the burner would fire up every 10 to 15 minutes and run for 5 or 10 minutes. It meant that 50% of our gas useage was for hot water, and most of that was heating the hot water circuit so that the thermocouple was kept at the right temperature. Another 12 years of 1000’s kWh of gas wasted. Couldn’t believe it.

I’m now fully insulated in the loft and walls and have a cylinder stat fitted. I’m now waiting for the next revelation about where I’m wasting energy……

Whats sarkin got to do with insulation? Its great when a tile or 2 gets damaged and rain starts to pish in

Quite like my sarkin , felt , battens , clay tile arrangement

Whats sarkin got to do with insulation?

That’s exactly what I thought. So why did you mention it in a discussion about making homes more energy efficient ?

Bang your head ? I was referring to poor building practice as a bad reason to knock down solid old housing stock

Well it’s got nothing to do with ‘poor building practice’ in the same way as it’s got nothing to do with poor insulation.

Sheeting out a roof with plywood (which would be immeasurably stronger than milled timber) would add very little to the cost of a house. It’s not done because it’s pointless and is more likely to cause problems than solve any.

how would you improve the building regs ?

Start by reading up:
http://www.aecb.net/publications/publication-categories/carbonlite/
The energy standards particularly.

Matt, skim read the thread so apologies if discussed.

I’m in a bungalow so roof area is double that of an average house, no deals available for me at the moment and DIY stores no longer doing the 3 for 1 deal on loft insulation (I have been waiting all summer in the hope they start doing them for winter). Whats the most cost effective way to insulate my loft?

spooky, there is no more cheap insulation deals like the recent past. They were funded via the green levy on energy bills. That money is now part of the Green Deal.

^wot he said. All in the pockets of big companies now.
Go to big shed DIY and buy whatever works out cheapest.

I would love to update our house but its listed. Took us 15 months to get consent to replace 1/3 of our windows with double glazed units. The rest have to stay single glazed & putty.
The number of houses that I have surveyed over the last year to two with severe condensation problems caused by racking up loft insulation without considering ventilation.
New building standards have improved over the last 10 years in general particularly with air tightness, but thermal bridging remains the major challenge. The lack of any real movement in this area is frustrating for anybody in the industry that cares.
the failure to replace the “accredited details” with a formal scheme is something that the politicians can be proud of.That original intentions were there, just no guts to see them through.

Start by reading up:

Is that it – a link to a company’s website ? I don’t suppose anyone is going to bother reading all that why can’t you just explain, at least in general terms, how you would change the regs ?

And also what are the costs savings involved are likely to be, since after all the whole purpose of your increased energy efficient homes is to reduce costs to consumers – one does not necessarily follow the other you know.

For example solar (photovoltaic) panels have a life expectancy of approximately 25 years, which is about the amount of time it takes for the savings to cover the cost of the panels. Photovoltaic panels are a good idea, but not because they significantly reduce costs to consumers – they don’t. Solar water heating on the other hand provides a much more sound economic argument.

If the building regs could be undated in such a way so that the result would significantly reduce overall costs to the consumer then I’m sure they would be.

In the meantime I think consumers are perfectly justified in complaining about the constant over inflation rise of energy prices :

Heating Bills ‘Rise 63% In Five Years’

Is that it – a link to a company’s website

Fair point: so drop U-values to about half what they are now. Reduce cold bridging a similar amount. Reduce air leakage to a third of current regs. All this has to be proved when the house is built: not a fancy drawing or spec. This is done by testing the finished house or retrofit.
After that I need to type for hours – hence the read the specs.

For example solar (photovoltaic) panels…Solar water heating

They are not an efficiency or reduction: they generate power. That is not what is being discussed.

in other words Passivhaus”.
even if you were to build 200000 new builds a year, its small fry compared to the overall housing stock, & there just isn’t the political will there to build that many new builds let alone crate the infrastructure for control of both design & operational assessments.

drop U-values to about half what they are now. Reduce cold bridging a similar amount. Reduce air leakage to a third of current regs. All this has to be proved when the house is built: not a fancy drawing or spec.

How would you actually achieve that ? Houses built today have less than a quarter the U-values houses over 50 years old have. And what would the cost be to the consumer ? What would the savings be ?

I don’t believe that air tightness can be reduced to a third of what it is now. What more can you do than polythene all the walls and the ceilings ? If it was physically possible people would probably die of suffocation in their sleep – they would be living in the equivalent of a sealed jam jar.

And btw the air tightness is tested on site after houses have been built, it isn’t just proved on a “a fancy drawing or spec”.

They are not an efficiency or reduction: they generate power. That is not what is being discussed.

Of course it’s efficiency – solar panels are using the solar energy which hits the roof to convert it into either hot water or electricity. If that isn’t energy efficiency then I don’t know what is, it’s “using less energy to provide the same service”.

Interesting though that you didn’ have solar heating in mind.

And btw the air tightness is tested on site after houses have been built, it isn’t just proved on a “a fancy drawing or spec”.

This is not done on new build domestic houses ( in England at least)

Oops what was I thinking.

Part L they do test a sample of new houses

Thatll be the air tightness test done with tape over fail pointa then is it ?

Air tightness has to be countered by controlled ventilation, whether passive or mechanical which can lead to good overall results, & i’m lead to believe a more healthy living environment.
The air pressure process is not great, but I believe that big difference is the fear of the risk of a failed test. Yes there have been instances of over zealous use of sealant & tape early on but as an industry, we are getting there. There of course will always be the some fails.
The industries next big challenge is thermal bridging, lighting & hot water. Chasing U values once you get below 0.1 starts to become uneconomic

Air tightness has to be countered by controlled ventilation, whether passive or mechanical which can lead to good overall results, & i’m lead to believe a more healthy living environment.

Surely we can ban new housing from having trickle vents included with all windows, and extractor fans in bathrooms, toilets, and kitchens, just think of all the heat that’s being lost !

What we need is homes so air tight that vacuum pumps are required before the front door can be shut.

Instead of complaining that heating bills have risen by 63% over the last 5 years.

What we need is homes so air tight that vacuum pumps are required before the front door can be shut.

You mean something driven by better building regs and improved practices in the construction industry?

Better airtightness coupled with better insulation, less thermal bridging, healthier and less carbon-intensive materials and overall easier to use so the consumer can get the best out of them.

That – but retrofitting is the bigger concern by far. Something like 75% of the buildings that will be standing in 2050 are already built – so retrofitting is THE pressing concern.