The Gun Shop

Maybe it’s the best democracy precisely because they can have an armed uprising

this argument doesn’t work when one side has a massive standing army, drones and B52s…

How about some simple common sense rules that allow for the ownership of certain weapons but they must be held in a range and not taken out of them (same as if you want to drive like a racing driver go to the track with your car on a trailer) have a transport system if you want your guns moved.

The transport system is where your plan falls down tbh. At the moment it’s hard enough to post an air gun never mind a (potentially) section 5. You can’t even get a rifle properly insured through the post (if it’s even allowed, seemingly it’s fine to post a Fox Vanilla air can but woe betide you post a depressurised PCP or a divers bottle with the valve off).

What we do need is a proper cold-eye review of our entire firearms legislation and have it rewritten for common sense rather than mass hysteria. Section 1 and 2 (rifles and shotguns) would probably remain as is, ideally Firearms Amendment (No.2) (1997) is repealed allowing the use of .22 rimfire pistols (meaning competition shooters can practice anywhere other than Bisley) and a thorough review of equivalent applicability to air weapons is conducted (several types are a grey area that need clarified in law and the whole reason for the 12fpe limit was a trade infuenced one albeit probably not something that will change).

If you think, whoa wait a minute, bring back pistols?!? you should bear in mind that there are plenty of people in the country that still hold section 1 licences (with special dispensation) to hold pistols for humane dispatch, to say nothing for the ridiculous long pistols still allowed (essentially a pistol with a stock on the butt and extra long barrel).

Ninfans point about licence equivalencies is a good one though. He also missed the part where depending what brand of fuel you put in you could end up with a car that requires a different licence to what you have (or don’t have) or could be illegal altogether.

Anyway, that’s here, and the argument was about over there.

I have relatives in America, New Hampshire, so not the busiest/scariest place in terms of crime and nutjobs on the rampage, it’s pretty sparsely populated and sedate.

They have several hundred acres of land, mostly forest, and my one relative hunts, most things that are legal. Perversely though, the sporting seasons are highly regulated, with certain species only being able to be hunted for short periods, with certain weapons, certainly it seems more restrictive (in NH at least) in terms of shooting live quarry than in the UK.

So he has a range of hunting rifles with iron and telescopic sights, everything from a little .22 (that they would view similarly to how we see air rifles in the UK) that is always out/in the truck/to hand, to something that can take down coyotes, bears and big deer/moose. He also has some shotguns, for shooting birds and small ‘critters’, then handguns and semi automatic assault type rifles, which only go to the range, for fun.

One rifle was won in a raffle to give you an idea of how normal guns are perceived.

We were talking about self/home defence and my relative said he’d never use a rifle or handgun (which is in reality a stubby barrelled rifle) in the house, purely because they’re so dangerous and unpredictable (not to mention hard to aim), the bullets could go anywhere and through anything, potentially killing your own family. He said if he was going to shoot in the house, it would have to be with a shotgun, the logic of which is sound, as the pellets loose energy quite quickly and don’t penetrate like rifle bullets – also the range is more than enough.

It’s all a bit scary that they think they need guns for protection, but I guess I might too if I lived there. I’m used to guns and we have several shotguns in our house, as well as shooting rifles with friends and family, so it’s not a big deal, but I know most people in the UK have probably never seen a gun up close, let alone held or used one.

If I lived in the US, I’d have guns anyway, for sport, and on the basis that I had them already, I’d probably use one for home defence. Not keen on carrying a handgun though. I do like all sorts of guns however, just from a history/engineering/development point of view, they’re interesting things to me, so I’d probably own loads, but never use most of them.

Gun laws do vary quite a lot from state to state though, and you have to be careful when travelling over borders that you don’t fall foul of local law.

All in all, I think they should just stop handgun and any assault type weapon sales, including semi-automatic rifles. You should also have to be vetted and a genuine need/use identified.

It’s all a bit scary that they think they need guns for protection, but I guess I might too if I lived there. I’m used to guns and we have several shotguns in our house, as well as shooting rifles with friends and family, so it’s not a big deal, but I know most people in the UK have probably never seen a gun up close, let alone held or used one.

If I lived in the US, I’d have guns anyway, for sport, and on the basis that i had them already, I’d probably use one for home defence. Not keen on carrying a handgun though. I do like all sorts of guns however, just from a history/engineering/development point of view, they’re interesting things to me, so I’d probably own loads, but never use most of them.
The biggest part is the Think… most of those sporting weapons carry a very small number of rounds and are hard to conceal or carry around in public.

Growin up in the country I saw and handled a fair few shotguns, air etc. and spent 10 years on and off surrounded by a very heavily armed police force who waved their very loaded machine guns around a lot at times. They were needed given what they were protecting.

What country is that then?

That’ll be the UK.

Be a pessimistic sod if you like, but I like living in a place where you can’t buy an assault rifle from a high street store, not worrying that someone is carrying a concealed weapon in the local pub & where the Old Bill aren’t habitually tooled up with semi-automatic weapons – just a can of pepper spray & a truncheon.

Try living in the States for a few years where that’s a daily occurrence – you’ll soon appreciate the little things..

🙄

core

It’s all a bit scary that they think they need guns for protection, but I guess I might too if I lived there.

My neighbour in Donegal is a farmer, a bachelor in his 60s and he keeps a shotgun handy at night for home / self defense. Obviously that’s not why he has it legally speaking. From speaking to him and other farmers it’s not that uncommon.

If I lived in the US, I’d have guns anyway, for sport, and on the basis that I had them already, I’d probably use one for home defence. Not keen on carrying a handgun though. I do like all sorts of guns however, just from a history/engineering/development point of view, they’re interesting things to me, so I’d probably own loads, but never use most of them.

Same as that. Although the idea of prowling through my own home at night with a loaded weapon just seems like a recipe for disaster.

where the Old Bill aren’t habitually tooled up with semi-automatic weapons

Where do you live? Armed police are so common these days it’s almost surpising not seeing at least one in a group of them.

Where do you live? Armed police are so common these days it’s almost surpising not seeing at least one in a group of them.

Z3 London & I can 100% guarantee you that there are less armed police on the street than you think so dont go getting carried away.

There are about 30k officers in the Met of which 2.8k are trained to carry arms..

Met numbers

Armed officers

It’s not abut guns, it’s not about method of killing (gun/car/van/bare hands) It’s simply about responsibility and fear.

Pump people full of enough fear, there’s a peado on every corner, the governments coming to get you, white hates black and vice versa and sprinkle on a big helping of machismo and you have a recipe for disaster.

The police have guns, so the criminals get guns, so the police get bigger guns, so the criminals strike first. The people caught in the middle so they go and buy something with no training in how to be responsible and then the kids start shooting each other/themselves. Middle class people stop listening to their kids because they both have to work, self hate and mental instability kicks in because they think they’re different or bullied or whatever, so they take an AR-15 to lunch.

I was a responsible shooter for 15 years, a responsible gun owner for 5, I never shot anyone. I never flouted the law. I’ve probably broken more laws driving and had 100% more near misses that could have ended up in someone being injured. Most of these because people won’t even take the responsibility to use indicators or I haven’t taken responsibility to think they might not be turning after all.

Blame the guns……that’s easy
Blame the gun shops or the laws, that’s really easy
Blame the criminals, blame the police, blame the nutters, the Trumps or whoever.
At the end of the day, everyone else is to blame and that’s how it will always be

That’ll be the UK.

Be a pessimistic sod if you like, but I like living in a place where you can’t buy an assault rifle from a high street store, not worrying that someone is carrying a concealed weapon in the local pub & where the Old Bill aren’t habitually tooled up with semi-automatic weapons – just a can of pepper spray & a truncheon.

Try living in the States for a few years where that’s a daily occurrence – you’ll soon appreciate the little things..

and i was going to point out how despite having highly regulated gun laws with no fully auto or pistols allowed there is a healthy illegal trade in these items and you could argue illegal firearms are more easily available than legal. you can evidently rent them!

Blame the guns……that’s easy
Blame the gun shops or the laws, that’s really easy
Blame the criminals, blame the police, blame the nutters, the Trumps or whoever.
At the end of the day, everyone else is to blame and that’s how it will always be

And yet reduce the access to guns reduces the number of shootings

So 9.3% of MET officers are armed response, getting on to 1 in 10 officers. That’s quite a lot really isn’t it?

Checked PS figures, we’re running at just over 2% although it’s likely I’m seeing more of them given I stray within the Ayrshire and Glasgow divisions.

But yes, less than I thought but still a fair amount in your neck of the woods.

Stop having a go at the private car. Smoking kills far more people than cars do, until we’ve put a stop to that then we should let drivers do whatever they like.

Agree with chubstr…

@aracer standard deflection and whataboutry. No need to answer the difficult questions that way. Same as the I love Donald and eu threads. If you can’t answer the questions blame something else and vanish into a cloud of theatrical smoke.

So 9.3% of MET officers are armed response, getting on to 1 in 10 officers. That’s quite a lot really isn’t it?

??

The way you made it sound:

Armed police are so common these days it’s almost surpising not seeing at least one in a group of them.

“So common….” sounds a little bit more than 10%!

It does seem a bit like arguing with Pro Gun heathens is not too dissimilar to arguing with those who are Pro Brexit….

Ninfan – just to clarify, are you anti-EU? You know, just so I can add to my venn diagram…

“So common….” sounds a little bit more than 10%!

Seeing as you never bothered reading the rest of my post I’ll say it again.

Checked PS figures, we’re running at just over 2% although it’s likely I’m seeing more of them given I stray within the Ayrshire and Glasgow divisions.

But yes, less than I thought but still a fair amount in your neck of the woods.

mrlebowski – Member

Met numbers etc.

Armed officers etc.

I was on the 5-45 pm from Waterloo to somewhere in Surrey on Friday night and sat down at random in an empty seat only to see a mate of some 47 years acquaintance sitting opposite me.

After the usual catching up etc. I asked after his mum as she has been ill and in hospital and commented on when how my mum had gone visiting his mum he had been there too.

Oh hi, my mum says, I hope you haven’t got your gun on you she said in her totally unaware kind of way. Well actually… he said, I dare not leave it in the car and opened his bag to display his VIP protection squad tools of the trade.

We laughed at this and he lifted the side of the rather large jacket he was wearing to indicate that he was tooled up on the aforementioned packed commuter train too. Useful jackets these he said.

(don’t worry, we spoke in a sort of code/intimation way so that we both knew what we were talking about without alarming the rest of the train).

Anyroad up, that’s slightly off the point. I’m not an America-hater, I’ve had many happy holidays there and have many relatives there too but as I heard many years ago, America (and it’s society) is the only country to go from rise to fall without an intervening period of civilisation…

Seeing as you never bothered reading the rest of my post I’ll say it again.

Ooops I was posting from my iphone & didnt quite see that….

My apologies.. 😳

America is still in it’s teenage years..give it 500yrs they’ll be fine.

“Oh hi, my mum says, I hope you haven’t got your gun on you she said in her totally unaware kind of way. Well actually… he said, I dare not leave it in the car and opened his bag to display his VIP protection squad tools of the trade.

We laughed at this and he lifted the side of the rather large jacket he was wearing to indicate that he was tooled up on the aforementioned packed commuter train too. Useful jackets these he said.

(don’t worry, we spoke in a sort of code/intimation way so that we both knew what we were talking about without alarming the rest of the train).”

😆

I love this forum.

Haven’t read all the threads but I guess it is the same old same old arguments. Personally I don’t see what the big deal is with owning guns. Not everyone will go crazy shooting each other for no reasons put it this way.

Not all licensed or legal arms are involved in the killings as quite a big chuck comes from ghost guns (illegal imported guns mostly used by gangs, once used ship South to South America as it has become too “hot” to handle in Merica).

Problem is the Democrats keep banging on about getting rid of the legal arms.

I have a feeling at one point in the future Merica will start their own revolution again because of the imposition of certain values.

Ooops I was posting from my iphone & didnt quite see that….

My apologies..

Apologies also, I probably didn’t need to be quite such an arse about it…

where the Old Bill aren’t habitually tooled up with semi-automatic weapons
Where do you live? Armed police are so common these days it’s almost surpising not seeing at least one in a group of them.

Some years back, if you frequented a pub in a nearby village, then it was highly amusing to be sitting out on the riverside patio of a summer evening and watch the faces of visitors when a copper walked down from the upper car park with flak jacket, H&K semi-auto carbine and holstered pistol.
However, I’d challenge anyone to find any armed cops on the streets anywhere in Wiltshire, Bath, Bristol or anywhere around the South-west in normal policing.
The officer who had the visitors eyes popping open was a protection officer for Tom King, Minister for Northern Ireland at the time, and an IRA target.

Just got round to watching this.

One word. Scary.

How can a society get to the stage where it’s normal to teach kids that carrying a machine that you can use to kill at will is normal? It’s absurd!!
I’ve shot guns on clay pigeon ranges and an indoor range, didn’t like either. The feeling of how easy it would be to kill something, someone or yourself didn’t sit easy with me at all. I grew up in the countryside so know why people there carry firearms and I’m fine with that, protection of livestock etc. But to have these machines in general circulation is just bonkers.

It’s not very often a programme can shock me. Things like holocaust history programmes are so far detached from what I consider normal that they make it easy to detach the emotional side and see the actions of people in history as wrong and never to be repeated. Seeing normal people walking off the street into a shop then walking out with a gun like they were buying a new TV or phone (Tiffany, pink etc 😯 ) genuinely scares me. The UK may have it’s faults but our gun control laws are one thing we have definitely got right.

where was this programme?

Channel 4 alpin.

To be honest, the people in the gun shop struck me as far more moderate and considered than a lot of other gun shop employees I have met in the US.

That they actually did background checks, advised people on what to buy properly, recommended the concealed carry training and made them shoot first all spoke volumes about their professionalism. I also liked the way that the first bit of the concealed carry course was straight out asking people if they were prepared to deal with the fall-out of drawing on someone and potentially taking a life. That sould cause people to pase and consider their actions.

The customers on the other hand… Some of them I would have a really hard time trusting with a firearm. Sadly, it is their legal right to own one and it seemed that the owners were doing what they could to make sure they did that part safely.