The First STW Religion Poll

You just have to believe and ask for forgiveness.

How long does the belief have to have existed? I mean, if I do turn up in purgatory awaiting “assignment” is it OK to say “OK, now I see it, I believe” and ask for forgiveness, or will that be too little, too late?

attendance = works?

OK, sorry, that was just off the top of my head.

Hebrews 10:24, 25 And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.

Faith without works is dead.

Not necessarily. According to the Catechisms, faith is simply to believe in him. The first of the three theological virtues.

Hebrews 10:24, 25

Old Testament.

Doesn’t count 😉

Are you by any chance seeking to convince by using a quote from an ancient (pre-elightenment) text, without evidence? According to molgrips, this never happens. Shocking.

Not necessarily.

Careful, this sort of disagreement can lead to wars.

Not necessarily. According to the Catechisms, faith is simply to believe in him. The first of the three theological virtues.

According to the Bible

James 2:14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?

Old Testament.

Doesn’t count

Of course it does (Even though it is new testament)

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness

They weren’t of any religion, they were just God’s people.

So, Jewish then.

I had a conversation with somebody of part Jewish descent about birthdays. She said that they didn’t really do birthdays. “So, no birthdays or Christmas? What’s the point of being Jewish?”, I tactfully asked. “God’s chosen people”, she replied. “What does that mean?” I countered. “It’s like speedy boarding” she said.

So put me down for a 1. I’d like to be Jewish please. Was Adam circumcised? I know he didn’t have a navel.

Hebrews 10:24, 25

Old Testament.

Doesn’t count

Nope. New Testament.

Alas, I have been busy all day with no time to check in, and now that I do, find this thread has spiralled out of control. I can’t even find a point on which I can get involved, although there are many, well-intentioned, inaccuracies being asserted.

Oh well. I might just have to open another thread.

Did you hear about Joe Cocker?

Ah. the OP returns SaxonRider – Can of worms I might add 🙂

Nope. New Testament.

So it is. My bad.

So attendance is needed for eternal life?

Alas, I have been busy all day with no time to check in, and now that I do, find this thread has spiralled out of control. I can’t even find a point on which I can get involved, although there are many, well-intentioned, inaccuracies being asserted.

Someone up there (further up the thread not, you know, up there) tallied everything up, and we’re about as Christian as you’d expect for a bunch of borderline-autistic, (relatively) young, mainly male, Brits. So, the thread did achieve something.

Someone up there (further up the thread not, you know, up there) tallied everything up, and we’re about as Christian as you’d expect for a bunch of borderline-autistic, (relatively) young, mainly male, Brits. So, the thread did achieve something.

I’m converting you! My work here is done. (Joke) 😀

Are you by any chance seeking to convince by using a quote from an ancient (pre-elightenment) text, without evidence?

No! They are disagreeing about their own religion, don’t think it has anything to do with you. Little bit paranoid there Wopster.

Oh well. I might just have to open another thread.

It might be interesting to start two similar to the one, but with a reasonably gap between:

The first using the current UK census question “What is your religion?” and the second with something more neutral like “Do you have a religion, and if so, which is it?” which is being suggested by some groups.

(Joke)

😉

SaxonRider – maybe you could comment on this?

What I don’t really understand is how folk can believe that there is a god and heaven and hell and all that jazz, and yet not bother to attend mass / worship etc.

3

I have no idea at all how an intelligent human being could choose anything else; to believe is madness, not to be interested in something that has so profoundly shaped human history is beyond belief.

Interesting quote from “Herding Hemingway’s Cats” by Kat Arney –

“There is no god. There is no free will. There is only DNA.”

(On the function of which, presumably, there is no disagreement between scientists, I would assume).

DNA itself, of course, is not covered in the afore-quoted iron age proscriptive literature…

“No! They are disagreeing about their own religion, don’t think it has anything to do with you. Little bit paranoid there Wopster.”

So… they’re not trying to convince (whoever) by quoting from ancient texts without evidence, then…

PH – i did say “not necessarily”. Of course, i quoted the RC version.

Your notion is supported by the Quakers who believe

Quakers believe our faith is lived through action. We work positively and creatively with others to build a more just and peaceful world.

So… they’re not trying to convince (whoever) by quoting from [ancient] texts without evidence, then..

Errr

“There is no god. There is no free will. There is only DNA.”

(On the function of which, presumably, there is no disagreement between scientists, I would assume).

So… they’re not trying to convince (whoever) by quoting from ancient texts without evidence, then…

They’re arguing with each other about whether or not you need to go to church to get into heaven.

Argument between two believers is NOT trying to convert anyone to their own religion.

On the function of which, presumably, there is no disagreement between scientists, I would assume

Have you seriously not heard of the nature vs nurture debate?

Of course, lots of good works (sic) are done without any “faith”. It would seem that the belief in unicorns isn’t a prerequisite.

Have you seriously not heard of the nature vs nurture debate?

That’s psychology, not science.

😉

teamhurtmore – But the Bible clearly states that it is. I was just pointing this out. So, wouldn’t you agree, that if you wanted to follow The God of the Bible, you would follow that scripture?

Of course, lots of good works (sic) are done without any “faith”. It would seem that the belief in unicorns isn’t a prerequisite.

They’re not arguing that faith is needed to do works, but that works are needed for faith.

the Bible clearly states

This is rarely the case.

Argument between two believers is NOT trying to convert anyone to their own religion.

Split hair. They are trying to convince each other of their own version of a religion.

Huggy – re works what if you were a crime fighting methodist ninja but all the late saturday nights meant you never got to church on the Sunday?

This is rarely the case.

Was the scripture I quoted not clear enough? (sorry if that sounds condescending, it’s not supposed to)

re works what if you were a crime fighting Methodist ninja but all the late Saturday nights meant you never got to church on the Sunday?

As a true Christian, why would you be fighting? 😉

Many of my Brothers have left jobs because it has stopped them from attending their meetings. Also, my work are fully aware of the meetings I attend and that I am not available to work on a Tuesday evening or a Sunday.

My point being, if your faith is that strong, surely it would come before any job?

teamhurtmore – But the Bible clearly states that it is. I was just pointing this out. So, wouldn’t you agree, that if you wanted to follow The God of the Bible, you would follow that scripture?

I dont know – I am happy to dig in and out of different religions for guidance and am not dogmatic about any one – but given that Bibles have been translated/mis-translated, changed and adjusted over time, I find little sympathy with the over analysis of individual verses or chapters or in the idea that there is “one absolute scripture’ to follow. As atheists are only too happy to point out, there are many apparent/obvious contradictions in the Bible.

In the bookshelf in front of me now there are books from five religions/strands of religion which I enjoy dipping into – theist and non-theist – as well as other sources of wisdom and guidance that are not in any way religious. They are all helpful.

Split hair. They are trying to convince each other of their own version of a religion.

Wrong on all counts – who mentioned facts eh?

This is rarely the case.

Was the scripture I quoted not clear enough?[/quote]

No, that was unusually clear.

But, generally, the Bible is less clear, hence people disagreeing on issues because of it.

Weighing the relative value of ‘works’.

i.e. it’s probably quite easy to call yourself devout, attend church, sing a song, chuck a couple of quid on the collection plate, probably harder to organise a youth club/charity collections etc that might compromise your ability to attend to church but that has greater social impact. According to your assumption it’d have less spiritual capital.

teamhurtmore – I like the way you work.

But, generally, the Bible is less clear, hence people disagreeing on issues because of it.

That’s the thing, it is pretty clear. All the way through. There might be a few scriptures that need a little more looking into but that’s all. It’s for the masses.

Take me for example, I used to hate studying at school. I have the memory of a goldfish but I get the Bible. Did I mention I have the memory of a Goldfish?

Do you think God would inspire a book for people who couldn’t understand it?

do you think God would inspire a book for people who couldn’t understand it?

Looking at the arguments over the centuries, that does appear to be what’s happened!

Looking at the arguments over the centuries, that does appear to be what’s happened!

Humans again hu? Who’d have ’em? 😀

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–not by works, so that no one can boast,” (Eph. 2:8-9, NIV).

Faith, not works…

But, generally, the Bible is less clear, hence people disagreeing on issues because of it.

That’s the thing, it is pretty clear. All the way through. There might be a few scriptures that need a little more looking into but that’s all.[/quote]

What does the Bible clearly say on remarriage after divorce, homosexuality, and women Bishops?

miketually – Now you’re going down a path where I may write something that could offend somebody. This is the territory I mentioned earlier and is best done on a one-to-one basis. Also, I think you already know the answers 🙂

Eph. 2:8-9

The entire provision for salvation is an expression of God’s undeserved kindness. There is no way that a descendant of Adam can gain salvation on his own, no matter how noble his works are. Salvation is a gift from God given to those who put faith in the sin-atoning value of the sacrifice of his Son.