@Drac, is that eTron through the NHS scheme with Knowlefleet? Just looking at that option, looks like a good deal.
Is servicing and insurance included too?
No it’s NHS Fleet Solutions but yes it’s an all inclusive package.
Worth watching:
Sounds like the boot is maybe a shade under golf estate size...
Apparently the poverty spec' MG5 will be beating Mr Musk on price by 3 years then?
I could get into the idea of an MG if it's an affordable family waggon with some range.
The Apollo lunar module was a self-landing rocket. It landed on the moon in 1969.
1. It wasn't self landing at all, a very skilled pilot and co-pilot landed it.
2. Landing in 1/10th gravity is a lot easier than earth normal
Re-usable rockets aren’t anything new either. That was part of the rationale behind the Space Shuttle, which was the worst decision NASA ever made – it sucked up the entire space budget on a childish dream of a spaceship that could fly on schedule like a commuter airliner. It would have been much cheaper to have just used single-use rockets.
1. The space shuttle as a means to ferry people was a very good idea - that was NASA's idea. Making it big enough to deploy and retrieve large payloads - that was the Airforce. The latter requirement made it uneconomical and most of that cost was the repair of the massive heatshield.
2. The space shuttle also brought satellites down from orbit for repair and re-launch. You can't do that with a disposable or even a re-usable rocket.
Musk is like Steve Jobs. He doesn’t really invent anything, he’s good at imagining how existing technology could be improved, marketing it to gullible fools, then using the money to hire engineers to do the hard work of making things work.
1. If that's not the perfect combination of a Technologist and a Leader, I don't know what is.
2. How are NASA gullible WRT to C3PO? How is the Airforce gullible in giving SpaceX 40% of their proprietary launches in a RFP which force ULA to cut their costs by over 60% and improve their rockets too? How are the people driving around in Tesla cars gullible?
Musk may not be an inventor, but Tesla/SpaceX/Boring's 700+ Patents, their (frankly ludicrous) share price show that the companies started and fostered under his leadership are innovating and inventing at a staggering pace.
Loath him all you want, but you can't help but admire his drive and vision.
I currently drive a VW T6 Kombi, diesel, obviously, and it is the perfect vehicle for work, my question though, when will a suitable vehicle be available to replace this? It's 4 1/2 years old and perfectly fine, and I intend to keep it for at least another year or two, but come the time to change, what will I realistically be buying? another diesel? hybrid?
Oh, and it needs to have at least a 400 mile range.
Does that rear seat come out of the MG easily? Even the dealer was surprised when I removed the rear seat back of the Zoé in about 30 seconds. Two 27,5 enduro MTBs with the wheels off go in along with camping gear
andy8442 > the EMP2 vans (Citroen Dispatch, Peugeot Expert, Vauxhall Vivaro) have electric versions available very soon. Think all have crewvan versions, plus the full passenger (windows, 8/9 seat) versions too.
Looking at £42k for a bigger battery crewvan Expert though, and that’s only 205 miles WLTP range. So unless your usage (or local restrictions) really suits electric, probably a non-starter.
400 mile range vans probably a way off, the extra weight/bulk/cost of battery becomes problematic. The EMP2 vans have 100kw charging so for the bigger battery you’re looking at 45 mins for a 20-80% rapid charge (125ish miles of range added). So a couple of charges, 70-80 mins total to cover 400 miles. Wouldn’t want to do it daily, probably ok for the occasional long journey.
Or the T7 will be along next year, meant to be PHEV from the off. Will suit if you do small distances frequently and can plug in a lot, but also do big journeys easily (albeit less efficiently).
Batteries don’t get dropped off by the battery fairy, and cells degrade. Cell life is being increased though, it’s a thing that can definitely improve. When cell life is longer that cradle-to-grave balance will tilt way more in favour of electric.
Cells do degrade, but EV batteries are made up of a shitload of 18650 cells, where any degraded cells can be replaced, or the cells recycled into domestic storage batteries.
Tesla have recently announced a million-mile EV battery, which might be a bit optimistic, but there’s at least one example I’ve read about a Tesla S rental car that was showing a charge issue, which turned out to be software based, but the battery was changed anyway. The battery had done 300,000 miles, between San Francisco and LA on a regular basis, and showed no sign of degradation.
How many people are ever going to see a million-mile car? Or even 300,000?
Tesla have also just announced a new battery tech which should result in cheaper EV batteries, and the new Tesla S Plaid (odd name, hinting perhaps at grunge rock?), which will allegedly have a 512 mile range, which is equivalent to my diesel Skoda, which usually gets around that from a single tank, and which has reached the grail of EV range - although the thought of 1000-mile range from a single charge is hugely appealing; I could charge once every four months just for my work commute!
1. It wasn’t self landing at all, a very skilled pilot and co-pilot landed it.
No, it was landed by the computer with radar guidance. The pilot was there to monitor that everything was ok and could override the computer if necessary, but the landing module was flown by computer.
their (frankly ludicrous) share price show that the companies started and fostered under his leadership are innovating and inventing at a staggering pace.
Their share price rocketed up because Musk promised fully self-driving cars (and thus autonomous taxis) by the end of this year.
https://www.ccn.com/consumer-report-tesla-self-driving-bloatware/
If you read that article, you'll see that Musk was bullshitting again.
Last year, Musk promised to unveil one million robotaxis by the end of 2020. But FSD Capability is nowhere near reaching full autonomy, and no country has authorized the widespread testing of self-driving cars.
blobonastick
Mrs BOAS wants a Mini-e. We test drove it and it was a fun little car with plenty of ‘go’ and nice handling. Anyone got any real-life experience?Posted 1 day ago
I'm sure it'll be a lovely thing if you like the Mini image, and the slightly shorter-than-average range fits into your life, which it probably would as a second car.
In other news, I parked next to the slightly forgotten-about Countryman PHEV the other day. only 25-30miles electric only, but unusually it's also Diesel electric, with a 1.5L three pot. Only been out a year or two, but second hand they are about 22K, so I recon a bit of really good value for someone with the right usage pattern.
My Electric want. My son was gutted that only French 14 years olds get to drive them.
The pilot was there to monitor that everything was ok and could override the computer if necessary, but the landing module was flown by computer.
Isn't that what happened on Apollo 11?
Isn’t that what happened on Apollo 11?
Basically, it was the first real fly-by-wire system. The control systems were too complex for a human to control, so they used an automatic landing system with a semi-automatic mode. They couldn't map the landing sites in enough detail to be confident of the exact spot to land, so the pilots had to identify a good spot to touch down on and guide the module to that that spot. To the pilots, it felt like landing a helicopter, but they were actually just telling the flight computer where to land the module. The computer was controlling the engines and reaction systems.
If the moon had been mapped in detail, they would have known exactly where they wanted to set down. In that case, the computer would have landed the landing module without needing any human correction. This was 50 years before Elon Musk put on a show of a rocket landing on a perfectly prepared flat platform.
Basically, it was the first real fly-by-wire system. The control systems were too complex for a human to control, so they used an automatic landing system with a semi-automatic mode. They couldn’t map the landing sites in enough detail to be confident of the exact spot to land, so the pilots had to identify a good spot to touch down on and guide the module to that that spot.
They knew exactly where they were going to land. The Eagle's flight control computer overshot by 4 miles and Armstrong could see it was going to land them on the side of a crater so with about 30s of fuel left he took over manual control picked a spot and landed the sucker himself.
Hols. I don't know what your problem is with Musk. He might be and a$$hole but he had the vision, determination and resources to start both Space X and Tesla. So what if he hired talented engineers to fulfill his vision. If they were so brilliant why couldn't they have done it themselves. Tell me what you have achieved that even comes close.
Hols. I don’t know what your problem is with Musk.
He's a bullshitter. Nothing he says can be taken seriously. He just makes shit up as he feels like.
For example, the Thai cave rescue paedo thing was disgraceful. WTF was Musk thinking that he needed to get involved in the first place? Then, when he got told to stop being a dick, he accused a guy on the ground of being a paedophile.
Explanation for this seems to be that he's an overstressed asshole who gets off his face on drugs and just posts random shit on the internet, then unleashes lawyers when he gets called out for being an asshole. Does not inspire confidence in Tesla's long term prospects.
I think it takes a lot more than bullshit to start a car company with a market cap larger than General Motors and Ford which has electric driveline tech ahead of any other competitor and start a rocket company that is sending hundreds of satellites into orbit and routinely landing and recycling boosters and first stages.
I think you have to separate people’s personalities from their accomplishments. Just because Musk is an asshole doesn’t mean Tesla will fail.
Isaac Newton was an asshole but we still use his laws of motion
Explanation for this seems to be that he’s an overstressed asshole who gets off his face on drugs and just posts random shit on the internet, then unleashes lawyers when he gets called out for being an asshole. Does not inspire confidence in Tesla’s long term prospects.
I think he might post on here.
I think it takes a lot more than bullshit to start a car company with a market cap larger than General Motors and Ford which has electric driveline tech
I'll introduce you to Trevor Milton sometime
Fair comment but Nikola have yet to make a vehicle or even build a factory to make a vehicle
I3 owner for 4.5 years now. Still absolutely love the little thing! Such fun to drive and amazingly low consumption. Absolutely the best car BMW have ever made (and surefire future classic....)
Has anyone seen one of these?
We’ve got one come in at work, for possible refurbishment, it’s an Arval lease car. Never seen one before, a Toyota Mira. Hydrogen fuel cell technology, which there’s been a lot of talk about. I couldn’t help thinking, and mentioning to various of my work colleagues, that if it runs out of fuel, we’re buggered, ‘cos we’ve got no way of filling it! It’s still got 72 miles range, but I’m not sure if there’s a hydrogen filling point anywhere near that range.
I guess it would go out on a transporter. Interesting car, though.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars are "interesting" but a CO2 disaster. If the hydrogen to fuel them is made from natural gas they are worse than just burning the natural gas as LPG. If the Hydrogen is made from electrolysis then they consume far more electricty than a battery electric vehicle charged from the grid. Every study I've read damns them in terms of CO2 emissons unless there are no fossil fuels in the energy generation mix and an electricity surplus.
On range, I have to admit I roll my eyes a bit at the frequency of the "I need 400 mile range" comments. Certainly, some genuinely do, but I'd wager they're much smaller in number then either the consumer reaction or the classic journalists impression would suggest.
I hope it won't be too long now before people start properly to consider their needs in terms of EV range against the small compromises it requires. It's a pretty unusual lifestyle that benefits so much more from a 400 mile range EV than say a 300 mile range one, or even a bit less, as to make staying with ICE worth the environmental cost.
It becomes an issue if it has to be done in the day and if there are no options for charging along the way without major compromise. Sure, charging infrastructure is poor right now but even now a 45 min stop on the way home is often no bad thing on a day with a lot of hours of driving in it, and both availability and speed of charging options are improving all the time.
I think the longest range options on the market will get more and more capacity but the average range bought might plateau at a surprisingly low number once we have a bit more experience under our belts. The extra environmental impact of buying the 400 over the 300 mile range car BEV will continue to be significant too.
My EV has a realistic day-to-day range of about 200-250 miles without taking risks with battery health or fearing not getting there, and frankly the charging stops I have on the kind of long day I need them are usually a welcome break.
Fair comment but Nikola have yet to make a vehicle or even build a factory to make a vehicle
That was my point tbh. Their stock value is X billion, GM Motors have bought into them and yet they have absolutely nothing. Their prototype was pushed down a slight incline to give the impression it actually had motors driving it, it was all a con.
Well to wheel efficiency of a fuel cell vehicle as about 25-35% so about the same as a diesel. Well to wheel efficiency of a BEV is 2-3 times that. FCEV really isn't the answer unless its for applications where batteries can't deliver enough energy density e.g. shipping and maybe long haul trucking.
Their prototype was pushed down a slight incline to give the impression it actually had motors driving it, it was all a con.
So different from Tesla which was my point.
More bullshitting from Tesla.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/what-does-teslas-battery-day-mean-for-e-mtbs.html
According to Drew Baglino, the senior vice president of powertrain and engineering at Tesla, the innovations boost the energy by five times, the power by six times, and the range of a car using these batteries by 16 percent. It's worth saying we don't know what the baseline for these numbers are as no exact figures are given but we assume its in relation to the 21700.
Those numbers don't make sense. The new battery has five times the energy, but only 16% better range. If it had 5 times the energy density, you would expect 5 times the range.
What they've actually done is increased the size of the battery so it has 8 times the volume of a 18650 cell and 5.5 times the volume of a 21700 cell. Thus, with the same energy density, it will store 5.5 times the energy of a 21700 cell, but you won't be able to fit as many into the same space. A 16% improvement in energy density in three years is the sort of incremental improvement you would expect from normal development.
So, it may be cheaper to make a smaller number of larger cells, which raises the question of why they don't just make a few enormous cells instead of lots of tiny ones. The reason, apparently, is heat dissipation - it's much harder to keep them cool as they get bigger, and if they overheat, they'll fail. A lot of those limits are to do with chemistry and physics, so improvement will be incremental unless a battery with a completely different chemistry is developed.
Problem is, the "new" Tesla battery is still in early development and years away from production, with a reasonable chance that the scaling problems will be insurmountable. The "$25 000 Tesla in three years" is just a marketing guy throwing bullshit numbers out there to get some attention.
I’d suggest you go and actually watch the Battery Day keynote, rather than relying on secondhand badly interpreted information.
They quite clearly described how they would get the improvements they announced, the manufacturing process changes needed to get there, and the timeline.
For example, the article suggests that increasing the size of the battery makes it harder to cool. Tesla described other process improvements that will make it [b]easier[/b] to dissipate heat.
For example, the article suggests that increasing the size of the battery makes it harder to cool. Tesla described other process improvements that will make it easier to dissipate heat.
Point is, these are incremental improvements that give improvements of a few percent per year, not an exponential increase in performance. That's assuming everything goes according to plan, which it may not. Two years ago, Musk promised a 25K Tesla by next year. Now it's been pushed back two years. Either he was making shit up back then or their development schedule got massively delayed. Either way, the chances of a 25K Tesla in three years are pretty slim.
Same with autonomous taxis by Christmas this year, just Elon Musk making shit up to impress gullible fanbois. Not actually happening in real life.
Hols, perhaps you might like to read an article from someone who might actually know what they’re talking about, rather than making stuff up based on your dislike of the company’s boss:
This is also worth a read, actual costs of running a Tesla3 over 100,000 miles, in two years:
https://electrek.co/2020/09/26/tesla-model-3-high-mileage-extreme-low-cost-minimal-battery-degradation/
Hols your carping about Musk is starting to say more about you than him.
A good effort at a reasonable thread. Bit odd that it's ended up like that.
New Tesla model 3 owner here. It's quite the mix of absolute brilliance and un-usable nonsense. I love it.
Any chance of taking us for a spin in it sometime @pictonroad? They are on our company car list now although I would need a Model Y and doubt they'll be available in 12 months when mine is due (supposed to order March next year but might be able to string it out a few months)
Much as I dislike Musk and think the Teslas still have some major flaws the Supercharger network is a massive plus. We tend to drive to Germany a few times a year so your info on the improvements in the charging network are interesting @edukator, ta. Was woeful last time I looked into it.
I think what I'd really like is the VW Id5 Passat sized estate but doubt that will be available next year and even then would need to go on the company car list at a grade I can have. Got a wall charger and off street parking, most days I commute 50 to 100 miles so a BEV would be perfect 95% plus of the time. Suspect I might end up with another Passat GTE though which is annoying even if it is the definition of a first world problem!
Should get my Kia in a couple of weeks, had my pod point fitted at home this week.
I have managed to get to eastern Germany in a Model 3. Supercharging was fine - Dover / Brussels (don’t touch anything) / Wiesenthal (vegan schnitzel at the autoraststat). There’s one in Weimar which is 25km from where I’m staying which has been handy when the local charge network proved a bit unwieldy.
November for my Audi now. The Pod Point is in but needs activated as apparently I need earth bond the gas meter and water pipe.
I have managed to get to eastern Germany in a Model 3.
Strange, I struggled to get a few miles from Pateley Bridge to Lofthouse last night because the full beam wouldn't work properly.
When they fitted our charging point the guy drove a 2ft steel rod into the ground in the garden to use as the earth.
Really quite want an EV to replace my ageing SMax, but with 3 kids getting one that can take 3 child seats in the back is problematic.
Leaf may be possible, but that's about it. MG5 looks too narrow in the middle otherwise I'd be marching down the dealers!
NB Tesla's are way out of price range!!
Edit: Oh yeah, and we only have on street parking, on a Victorian street so until it's ok to drag a cable halfway down the street and over the road to charge "at home", it's a bit moot...
When they fitted our charging point the guy drove a 2ft steel rod into the ground in the garden to use as the earth.
That’s likely what I’ll do just earth the gas to a ground rod as doing it to the water pipe will be a pain. Just need to check with sparky friend see if that’s ok.
Here’s an interesting addition to the EV roster, Polestar are actually putting their Precept concept car into production, design work being carried out here in the U.K., manufacturing at a new, custom factory in China. There’s a significant amount of environmentally friendly materials being used, too, with flax-based composites, cork and recycled plastics.
https://thenextweb.com/shift/2020/09/28/polestar-is-actually-going-to-make-the-precept-its-eco-conscious-concept-car/
https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1319233752581738496
The GMC Hummer EV will have three electric motors generating 1,000 horsepower and can run 350 miles on a full charge. It can go from 0 MPH to 60 MPH in about three seconds.
The truck will have a suspension height that can be raised about 6 inches for off-road situations. Its tires can drive diagonally in a feature called "Crab Mode."
This will be GMC's first full-electric vehicle and is set to enter production in late 2021.
We have just dipped our feet into electric vehicles for the first time. We have about 20 A Class Petrol/Electric hybrids arriving and a further 10 C Class Diesel/Electric hybrids.
From what i have heard regarding the A Class the electric is lasting for about 30mls and then you are driving around in a pretty low powered petrol engined car. It takes about 1.5hrs to recharge at a 7kw supply or quite a long time on home 3 pin and costs about £2 to recharge at home. £2 for 30mls is pretty good but it depends on you charging it every day so i would say you are looking at maybe every other day realistically (Most of our staff arent even bothering). So 182 recharges x 30mls = 5460mls costing £364. I would calculate based on normal petrol engine getting 40mpg a saving of 5460/40=136.50x4.54=619.71 x£1.10 = £682. Total saving = £318 per annum.
TBH most of us are just looking at the huge tax savings and the eletric motor boosts BHP to something like 200bhp on the A class and 300+ on the C Class.
Quite disappointing for £30-40k cars
There's never been a better time to buy an A-Class. To make charging at home even easier, we're now offering a free BP Chargemaster Homecharge wall box worth £499* when you buy a new electric or plug-in hybrid Mercedes-Benz. Alternatively, you can opt for a 2 years' free membership to Polar Plus public charging network*. Shop for your new car on our Online Showroom today.
*Wall Box offer applicable to the installation of a BP Chargemaster 7kw single phase communicating wall box, with standard domestic installation costs, or a 2 years’ free membership to Polar Plus giving you access to the Polar Network of electric vehicle charging points provided by Chargemaster Limited. Qualifying EVHS OLEV grant customers only. Subject to eligibility. No cash alternative. On new car orders and registrations from 03.09.20 – 31.12.20. Click here for full terms and conditions.
Why don't you try and take advantage of this offer, you're more likely to charge it every night if it's all just there for you (rather than having to faff with plugs and cables into the garage or house etc).
Exempt from retail offers unfortunately. Costing anyone that wants one £500 to install
Anyone have experience of >7.2kw charger?
I've got improve charging provision for a company with 1x7.2kw & 3x3.7kw single phase chargers.
I'm looking at installing two 11kw 3 phase twin outlets like this Unit
But thats over £2.5k + Labour & I don't want to scare them with the price - anyone know of cheaper options ?
depends what they need them for, if it's just a perk for staff / customers then a load of untethered 7.2kw chargers would be fine I'd imagine. If it's for delivery vehicles and they often want them charged asap then Rolec seem to be the budget manufacturer so you'll probably not find any 3phase 11kw commercial charger cheaper than the one you linked to. Surely you need to sit down with them and find out what they're going to use them for and what they need?. I've got a domestic untethered Rolec 7.2kw BTW