The Electric Car Thread

18 months, 13K miles with a BMW i3S and still loving it.
Probably need some new rear tyres soon.

It doesn’t matter what he said in 2018 other than he perhaps should have said “5 years” in 2018.

It does matter. He’s a bullshitter and just says whatever suits him at the time. Let’s face it, nobody really believes there’ll be a 25K Tesla in 3 years.

he said the $25000 Will be ready in 3 years and he said it YESTERDAY. It doesn’t matter what he said in 2018 other than he perhaps should have said “5 years” in 2018.

How long for those sausages Eton?

It does matter. He’s a bullshitter and just says whatever suits him at the time. Let’s face it, nobody really believes there’ll be a 25K Tesla in 3 years.

He’s promised Full Self-Driving cars by Christmas

https://www.ccn.com/consumer-report-tesla-self-driving-bloatware/

It does matter. He’s a bullshitter and just says whatever suits him at the time.

Perhaps, but through force of will and personality he’s accomplished an awful lot of what other people said was bullshit at the time. Not many others can make the same claim. Whilst I don’t particularly like Mr Musk, I can’t help but admire what he’s done to positively disrupt the automotive and space sectors for the better.

I mean, if you didn’t at the very least smile when this happened, you’re absolutely dead inside.

I was at a bar in a hotel in Germany and the whole room gathered around my laptop to watch. When they finally touched down the cheers and screams in the place was utterly incredible.

Everyone said he was a bullshitter when he said we was going to build re-usable, self landing rockets…

MG 5 estate reviews out today, probably the most appealing MTBer EV yet. Golf/Astra estate size, 214 miles on WLTP test, 80kW charging, £25k (which will probably get discounted a bit more). Looks decent.

looks bloody hopeless as a bike wagon if you ask me. Might be good if you have lots of small things..

^^^^That’s epic in its crapness.

That is absolutely useless! Why are the seats at 45 degrees when folded?! There’s more practical space in my Tesla M3.. and that’s a saloon!

it might not be obvious from that pic, but it appears the boot sill is ~20 cm above the boot floor as well..

Everyone said he was a bullshitter when he said we was going to build re-usable, self landing rockets…

The Apollo lunar module was a self-landing rocket. It landed on the moon in 1969. Re-usable rockets aren’t anything new either. That was part of the rationale behind the Space Shuttle, which was the worst decision NASA ever made – it sucked up the entire space budget on a childish dream of a spaceship that could fly on schedule like a commuter airliner. It would have been much cheaper to have just used single-use rockets.

Musk is like Steve Jobs. He doesn’t really invent anything, he’s good at imagining how existing technology could be improved, marketing it to gullible fools, then using the money to hire engineers to do the hard work of making things work.

it might not be obvious from that pic, but it appears the boot sill is ~20 cm above the boot floor as well..

Looks like most estates if you take out the false floor. Not clear if it’ll come with one or not.

@Drac, is that eTron through the NHS scheme with Knowlefleet? Just looking at that option, looks like a good deal.

Is servicing and insurance included too?

No it’s NHS Fleet Solutions but yes it’s an all inclusive package.

Worth watching:

Sounds like the boot is maybe a shade under golf estate size…

Apparently the poverty spec’ MG5 will be beating Mr Musk on price by 3 years then?

I could get into the idea of an MG if it’s an affordable family waggon with some range.

The Apollo lunar module was a self-landing rocket. It landed on the moon in 1969.

1. It wasn’t self landing at all, a very skilled pilot and co-pilot landed it.
2. Landing in 1/10th gravity is a lot easier than earth normal

Re-usable rockets aren’t anything new either. That was part of the rationale behind the Space Shuttle, which was the worst decision NASA ever made – it sucked up the entire space budget on a childish dream of a spaceship that could fly on schedule like a commuter airliner. It would have been much cheaper to have just used single-use rockets.

1. The space shuttle as a means to ferry people was a very good idea – that was NASA’s idea. Making it big enough to deploy and retrieve large payloads – that was the Airforce. The latter requirement made it uneconomical and most of that cost was the repair of the massive heatshield.

2. The space shuttle also brought satellites down from orbit for repair and re-launch. You can’t do that with a disposable or even a re-usable rocket.

Musk is like Steve Jobs. He doesn’t really invent anything, he’s good at imagining how existing technology could be improved, marketing it to gullible fools, then using the money to hire engineers to do the hard work of making things work.

1. If that’s not the perfect combination of a Technologist and a Leader, I don’t know what is.
2. How are NASA gullible WRT to C3PO? How is the Airforce gullible in giving SpaceX 40% of their proprietary launches in a RFP which force ULA to cut their costs by over 60% and improve their rockets too? How are the people driving around in Tesla cars gullible?

Musk may not be an inventor, but Tesla/SpaceX/Boring’s 700+ Patents, their (frankly ludicrous) share price show that the companies started and fostered under his leadership are innovating and inventing at a staggering pace.

Loath him all you want, but you can’t help but admire his drive and vision.

I currently drive a VW T6 Kombi, diesel, obviously, and it is the perfect vehicle for work, my question though, when will a suitable vehicle be available to replace this? It’s 4 1/2 years old and perfectly fine, and I intend to keep it for at least another year or two, but come the time to change, what will I realistically be buying? another diesel? hybrid?

Oh, and it needs to have at least a 400 mile range.

Does that rear seat come out of the MG easily? Even the dealer was surprised when I removed the rear seat back of the Zoé in about 30 seconds. Two 27,5 enduro MTBs with the wheels off go in along with camping gear

andy8442 > the EMP2 vans (Citroen Dispatch, Peugeot Expert, Vauxhall Vivaro) have electric versions available very soon. Think all have crewvan versions, plus the full passenger (windows, 8/9 seat) versions too.

Looking at £42k for a bigger battery crewvan Expert though, and that’s only 205 miles WLTP range. So unless your usage (or local restrictions) really suits electric, probably a non-starter.

400 mile range vans probably a way off, the extra weight/bulk/cost of battery becomes problematic. The EMP2 vans have 100kw charging so for the bigger battery you’re looking at 45 mins for a 20-80% rapid charge (125ish miles of range added). So a couple of charges, 70-80 mins total to cover 400 miles. Wouldn’t want to do it daily, probably ok for the occasional long journey.

Or the T7 will be along next year, meant to be PHEV from the off. Will suit if you do small distances frequently and can plug in a lot, but also do big journeys easily (albeit less efficiently).

Batteries don’t get dropped off by the battery fairy, and cells degrade. Cell life is being increased though, it’s a thing that can definitely improve. When cell life is longer that cradle-to-grave balance will tilt way more in favour of electric.

Cells do degrade, but EV batteries are made up of a shitload of 18650 cells, where any degraded cells can be replaced, or the cells recycled into domestic storage batteries.
Tesla have recently announced a million-mile EV battery, which might be a bit optimistic, but there’s at least one example I’ve read about a Tesla S rental car that was showing a charge issue, which turned out to be software based, but the battery was changed anyway. The battery had done 300,000 miles, between San Francisco and LA on a regular basis, and showed no sign of degradation.
How many people are ever going to see a million-mile car? Or even 300,000?
Tesla have also just announced a new battery tech which should result in cheaper EV batteries, and the new Tesla S Plaid (odd name, hinting perhaps at grunge rock?), which will allegedly have a 512 mile range, which is equivalent to my diesel Skoda, which usually gets around that from a single tank, and which has reached the grail of EV range – although the thought of 1000-mile range from a single charge is hugely appealing; I could charge once every four months just for my work commute!

the new Tesla S Plaid (odd name, hinting perhaps at grunge rock?)

Spaceballs innit

1. It wasn’t self landing at all, a very skilled pilot and co-pilot landed it.

No, it was landed by the computer with radar guidance. The pilot was there to monitor that everything was ok and could override the computer if necessary, but the landing module was flown by computer.

their (frankly ludicrous) share price show that the companies started and fostered under his leadership are innovating and inventing at a staggering pace.

Their share price rocketed up because Musk promised fully self-driving cars (and thus autonomous taxis) by the end of this year.

https://www.ccn.com/consumer-report-tesla-self-driving-bloatware/

If you read that article, you’ll see that Musk was bullshitting again.

Last year, Musk promised to unveil one million robotaxis by the end of 2020. But FSD Capability is nowhere near reaching full autonomy, and no country has authorized the widespread testing of self-driving cars.

Meanwhile yesterday, a random no-name company put out a press release, and said they were going to launch an electric vehicle unit with the name "Edison" in it, and the stock soared from $1 to $47, before ending at $14. https://t.co/j8ICyLVHKb pic.twitter.com/TDLqQ7678F

— Joe Weisenthal (@TheStalwart) September 24, 2020

blobonastick
Mrs BOAS wants a Mini-e. We test drove it and it was a fun little car with plenty of ‘go’ and nice handling. Anyone got any real-life experience?

Posted 1 day ago

I’m sure it’ll be a lovely thing if you like the Mini image, and the slightly shorter-than-average range fits into your life, which it probably would as a second car.

In other news, I parked next to the slightly forgotten-about Countryman PHEV the other day. only 25-30miles electric only, but unusually it’s also Diesel electric, with a 1.5L three pot. Only been out a year or two, but second hand they are about 22K, so I recon a bit of really good value for someone with the right usage pattern.

My Electric want. My son was gutted that only French 14 years olds get to drive them.

The pilot was there to monitor that everything was ok and could override the computer if necessary, but the landing module was flown by computer.

Isn’t that what happened on Apollo 11?

Isn’t that what happened on Apollo 11?

Basically, it was the first real fly-by-wire system. The control systems were too complex for a human to control, so they used an automatic landing system with a semi-automatic mode. They couldn’t map the landing sites in enough detail to be confident of the exact spot to land, so the pilots had to identify a good spot to touch down on and guide the module to that that spot. To the pilots, it felt like landing a helicopter, but they were actually just telling the flight computer where to land the module. The computer was controlling the engines and reaction systems.

If the moon had been mapped in detail, they would have known exactly where they wanted to set down. In that case, the computer would have landed the landing module without needing any human correction. This was 50 years before Elon Musk put on a show of a rocket landing on a perfectly prepared flat platform.

Basically, it was the first real fly-by-wire system. The control systems were too complex for a human to control, so they used an automatic landing system with a semi-automatic mode. They couldn’t map the landing sites in enough detail to be confident of the exact spot to land, so the pilots had to identify a good spot to touch down on and guide the module to that that spot.

They knew exactly where they were going to land. The Eagle’s flight control computer overshot by 4 miles and Armstrong could see it was going to land them on the side of a crater so with about 30s of fuel left he took over manual control picked a spot and landed the sucker himself.

Hols. I don’t know what your problem is with Musk. He might be and a$$hole but he had the vision, determination and resources to start both Space X and Tesla. So what if he hired talented engineers to fulfill his vision. If they were so brilliant why couldn’t they have done it themselves. Tell me what you have achieved that even comes close.

Hols. I don’t know what your problem is with Musk.

He’s a bullshitter. Nothing he says can be taken seriously. He just makes shit up as he feels like.

For example, the Thai cave rescue paedo thing was disgraceful. WTF was Musk thinking that he needed to get involved in the first place? Then, when he got told to stop being a dick, he accused a guy on the ground of being a paedophile.

Explanation for this seems to be that he’s an overstressed asshole who gets off his face on drugs and just posts random shit on the internet, then unleashes lawyers when he gets called out for being an asshole. Does not inspire confidence in Tesla’s long term prospects.

I think it takes a lot more than bullshit to start a car company with a market cap larger than General Motors and Ford which has electric driveline tech ahead of any other competitor and start a rocket company that is sending hundreds of satellites into orbit and routinely landing and recycling boosters and first stages.

I think you have to separate people’s personalities from their accomplishments. Just because Musk is an asshole doesn’t mean Tesla will fail.

Isaac Newton was an asshole but we still use his laws of motion

Explanation for this seems to be that he’s an overstressed asshole who gets off his face on drugs and just posts random shit on the internet, then unleashes lawyers when he gets called out for being an asshole. Does not inspire confidence in Tesla’s long term prospects.

I think he might post on here.

I think it takes a lot more than bullshit to start a car company with a market cap larger than General Motors and Ford which has electric driveline tech

I’ll introduce you to Trevor Milton sometime

Fair comment but Nikola have yet to make a vehicle or even build a factory to make a vehicle

I3 owner for 4.5 years now. Still absolutely love the little thing! Such fun to drive and amazingly low consumption. Absolutely the best car BMW have ever made (and surefire future classic….)

Has anyone seen one of these?

We’ve got one come in at work, for possible refurbishment, it’s an Arval lease car. Never seen one before, a Toyota Mira. Hydrogen fuel cell technology, which there’s been a lot of talk about. I couldn’t help thinking, and mentioning to various of my work colleagues, that if it runs out of fuel, we’re buggered, ‘cos we’ve got no way of filling it! It’s still got 72 miles range, but I’m not sure if there’s a hydrogen filling point anywhere near that range.
I guess it would go out on a transporter. Interesting car, though.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are “interesting” but a CO2 disaster. If the hydrogen to fuel them is made from natural gas they are worse than just burning the natural gas as LPG. If the Hydrogen is made from electrolysis then they consume far more electricty than a battery electric vehicle charged from the grid. Every study I’ve read damns them in terms of CO2 emissons unless there are no fossil fuels in the energy generation mix and an electricity surplus.

On range, I have to admit I roll my eyes a bit at the frequency of the “I need 400 mile range” comments. Certainly, some genuinely do, but I’d wager they’re much smaller in number then either the consumer reaction or the classic journalists impression would suggest.

I hope it won’t be too long now before people start properly to consider their needs in terms of EV range against the small compromises it requires. It’s a pretty unusual lifestyle that benefits so much more from a 400 mile range EV than say a 300 mile range one, or even a bit less, as to make staying with ICE worth the environmental cost.

It becomes an issue if it has to be done in the day and if there are no options for charging along the way without major compromise. Sure, charging infrastructure is poor right now but even now a 45 min stop on the way home is often no bad thing on a day with a lot of hours of driving in it, and both availability and speed of charging options are improving all the time.

I think the longest range options on the market will get more and more capacity but the average range bought might plateau at a surprisingly low number once we have a bit more experience under our belts. The extra environmental impact of buying the 400 over the 300 mile range car BEV will continue to be significant too.

My EV has a realistic day-to-day range of about 200-250 miles without taking risks with battery health or fearing not getting there, and frankly the charging stops I have on the kind of long day I need them are usually a welcome break.

Fair comment but Nikola have yet to make a vehicle or even build a factory to make a vehicle

That was my point tbh. Their stock value is X billion, GM Motors have bought into them and yet they have absolutely nothing. Their prototype was pushed down a slight incline to give the impression it actually had motors driving it, it was all a con.

Well to wheel efficiency of a fuel cell vehicle as about 25-35% so about the same as a diesel. Well to wheel efficiency of a BEV is 2-3 times that. FCEV really isn’t the answer unless its for applications where batteries can’t deliver enough energy density e.g. shipping and maybe long haul trucking.

Their prototype was pushed down a slight incline to give the impression it actually had motors driving it, it was all a con.

So different from Tesla which was my point.