The Electric Car Thread

I dropped it from consideration (second hand cash purchase) because the range on the smaller battery is too low and the bigger battery version is too expensive when compared to similar rivals like Ioniq 5 or EV6 or Polestar 2. It also only comes with a 3 year warranty from new which means buying a 25k car with at best an 18 month manufacturer warranty......on top of this it has a smaller boot than its rivals, slower charging, less performance and looks absolutely hideous.

I guess a few other people share my thoughts.

Thanks @winston You are certainly not alone by the look of things on Autotrader 😀 

I tend to think of the Polestar as being a bit of a different car. More like a luxury saloon than a practical hatchback, but that's more perception than reality I guess. I see what you mean though, even if an Ariya works out a bit cheaper than an Ioniq 5 or EV6 you still have that 3 vs 5/7 year warranty issue. 

I do wonder if that actually matters in practice though. I've bought 5 brand new cars over the years. Some had little niggles that had to be sorted out under warranty in the first year, but after than the things that tend to go are things that aren't covered by warranty anyway. Still, it's a bit of extra peace of mind I suppose.  

Re the Ariya - not sure, perhaps just didn't have any unique selling points. They feel very big, but they're very nice inside. They are of interest to me because they can tow, so I'm interested in cheap used prices.

Finally got a test drive in a VW id3 and id4.To be fair not the greatest experience at VW Guildford, my wife was all for walking out at one point, but anyway.

id3 was utter shite. Noisy in the back of the car, cheap plastics all over the place, so cheap I reckon Dacia uses better materials. Bouncy uncomfortable ride. For 34k or so new. So no. Not ever. None of us liked it.
id4, same platform so I’m told, but utterly different feeling car. Much better, much quieter, it is a tad dull, but as a daily local driver it would do well. The demo car was the pro trim twin motor model (4WD the sales guy said) and it was quite good. Not jaw droppingly  good, but good.

I know it’s VW, but I’m sure the golf’s I’ve had before felt much better than these EVs.

and who at VW decided no rear speakers as std in the id3? Cheapskate buggers.

whatever the Kia and Hyundai equivalents are, are what we’re looking at next.

Posted by: Aaron

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id4, same platform so I’m told, but utterly different feeling car

My colleague has just got a Ford Explorer which shares a platform with the id4. the main difference is it uses google automotive for the UI, rather than the horrible horrible thing in VWs.

He likes it a lot. 

I test drove an e-niro today. The acceleration is quite something, ride was a bit jiggly but overall we liked it. Plus it has actual buttons for the heating.

Posted by: doomanic

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Anyone got a Polestar 3? I'm getting the use of one for a couple of weeks and wondered if there was anything I need to know.

I've have it a couple of days now and I have to say I'm not impressed. The manual is best described as vague, making figuring out it's many functions a bit hit or miss.

First drive resulted in a Car health warning with 2 serious issues; steering fault and Driver support system fault. They weren't present the next time I drove the car and I've subsequently done about 50 miles with no further warnings.

The key fob doesn't always unlock the car; it's supposed to unlock as I approach but on several occasions I have either had to hold the fob against the door handle or unlock with the app. The last time I unlocked with the app the car would drive but the primary display wouldn't power up meaning no speed information. 

Of course, it always bloody works when you don't want it to, for example, going upstairs with the fob in my pocket unlocks the car but moving out of range doesn't relock the car... 🙄 

On several occasions the cameras have failed to initialise making reversing the behemoth "interesting".

The ride on rough roads is very choppy and wallowy on smooth ones, quite an achievement.

The range is a joke; 111Kwh battery has a WLTP of nearly 400 miles and even with local driving it looks like 200 will be a struggle. I haven't driven on a motorway yet but I understand efficiency is worst when driven at m-way speeds.

The iX I had last year managed that on a much smaller battery and the controls were much more intuitive.

I want to like it, I really do, but when you consider how much it costs it really isn't good enough.

Ive been charging using a 3 pin and am on octopus with the aim to move to intelligent go. There seems to be a large selection of ev charge points and a price difference. Before I take the plunge should I go tethered or untethered? Currently the car is for 8 - 10  miles a day. I see they can integrate with solar panels but what about battery systems? Any advice gratefully recieved

We use a Zappi and it integrates just with with the solar, batteries and the car.  

The batteries get charged first, when excess solar starts to get exported (full batteries), the charger notices and starts to charge. 

the charger is also configured to grid charge during the cheap period in the morning, so if plugged in it will do this without draining the batteries.  

if flicked onto boost at any other time, the car will charge at 7kW drawing as much as possible from the solar and batteries up-to 5kW and the rest from the grid.  

Use a Hypervolt, works well with Octopus IG.

If your car is supported by IOG you can sign up with a 3 pin charger - I did that before I had my charger installed and it was fine. Now have a Hypervolt which is IOG compatible but they're still controlling charging via the car.

Also on IOG at present I can't see the sense in charging from solar - any intelligent charging will be at 7p per kWh and their Outgoing tarrif pays 15p so you're better off exporting the excess solar then paying the cheap rate to charge the car.

Posted by: cheekymonkey888

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Before I take the plunge should I go tethered or untethered?

If you go tethered opt for the longest cable you can get (for free). 

My other half had a 5m tethered and sometimes it is hard work to plug in if the car is parked with the port diagonally back to front from the charger 🤔😢

should I go tethered or untethered?

I think most people get tethered, but it's just down to preference really. I suppose a tethered cable is less likely to disappear, an untethered cable you can take with you to use elsewhere. If your car came with a type2-type2 cable that's long enough, then I guess an untethered charger install will be a bit cheaper. As someone said above, go for longest cable option.

thanks for the suggestions and considerations. Currently have an appointment for smart meter and then move to a go tariff. Will look into the ev chargers that work with solar and batteries next

I have an untethered cable, but as you can configure the charger to lock the cable in place it is not vulnerable to being stolen. And when I wanted to use a 10m cable I could easily change it over myself. 

Assuming you'll be plugging in most nights, having to go in the boot, fish out the cable and connect both ends and then in the morning have to cook up and stash a sometimes wet cable gets annoying quite quickly,  I used to have to do this in work most days as I used the untethered ones there.

The tethered connection I have at home now is a lot better to use - time to plug and unplug is a lot shorter plus no need to deal with coiling and storing wet dirty cables.  

Zappi or Hypervolt seem to get good reviews and work well with Octopus IG.

First drive resulted in a Car health warning with 2 serious issues; steering fault and Driver support system fault. They weren't present the next time I drove the car and I've subsequently done about 50 miles with no further warnings

If you've just picked up the car from a used car dealer then it's quite likely the 12V battery was low, but it's now charged back up since you drove it. This is pretty common as the cars sit on dealers for ages without doing much driving.

Similarly this will have mullered the range estimate.  Wjen you take it on a long trip it will sort itself out. The worst case for EV range reporting is short slow urban driving in cold weather.  The heating will be using a couple of kW to get the car up to temperature, but since you are trundling along slowly the motor is also using a couple of kW only so under those conditions it thinks only 50% of the battery capacity is available for driving.  Of course, when you get moving the heating will drop to about 500W or so in the cold, and the motor will be using 10-15kW so you now have 95% of the battery available for driving.  Sounds paradoxical but it's because the heating cost is energy per time, but the range estimate is based on energy per distance.  If you were to use up a whole battery driving in a queue 10 minutes at a time then you might only actually get 200 miles, but on the open road you will get much more.  And if the car has only been test driven around the dealer for the last month the calculation will be based on that.

Interesting Harry’s Garage vid out yesterday, where it shows the EV market may be about to change again and a move away from EV, or at least a move to more appropriate EV use

Interesting Harry’s Garage vid out yesterday, where it shows the EV market may be about to change again and a move away from EV, or at least a move to more appropriate EV use

I'd take Harry's video with a large pinch of salt.   He's talking about the premium end of things, and about European manufacturers - both of which are having issue being competitive. European mfgs against far cheaper imports from China, and the premium end against hybrids and ICE where those with deep pockets just stump up for fuel for longer trips.  

At the run-of-the-mill end of the market EVs sales are steaming ahead if you look at the whole market. Where there is a big change though is the influx of cheap Chinese products. How the European automakers will stay competitive and relevant against this I'm not sure. There's only so much people be willing to pay to have a VW or BMW badge instead of BYD. 

There is a lot riding on the VW iD2.

To be fair to Harry, I think he does try to give a balanced and honest view based on his experiences and he makes some interesting points. He's certainly a lot better than a lot of the anti-EV crowd on Youtube who are just twisting facts for clicks. But like most commentators he's not very good at acknowledging his own biases. 

He doesn't mention that the traditional car manufacturers that he clearly loves have a vested interest in keeping demand for ICE (or hybrid) cars high as that is where they make their profit.  

He mentions a number of traditional car manufacturers abandoning (or scaling back) their EV plans but seems to imply that this is due to a lack of demand for EVs rather than a problem for these manufacturers. Although a lot of the figures you see bandied about mix up BEV, PHEV and regular Hybrids it does seem that the worldwide demand for BEVs is growing. It's just that these companies can't make one at a price people are prepared to pay and still make a profit. That's hardly surprising. BEVs are a disruptive technology. In most cases when a disruptive technology comes along the people who made the old technology don't just magically switch to successfully making the new one, which is what traditional automakers seemed to think would happen. They go bust and are replaced by new players. Remember when Nokia and Blackberry dominated the phone market? Then somebody invented a smartphone and they were toast. 

He seems to think that PHEVs are the solution (at least in the short to medium term) and for him they may be. But PHEVs are a very expensive solution. Paying to buy and maintain two different propulsion systems in your car is never going to be a cheap option. Fair enough, if you want to be able to do your local journeys on electric and still have all the advantages of petrol for long journeys and you want to do that in the same car and you are prepared to pay for it, then PHEVs are a viable solution. But for most people a shift from ICE to PHEV is just going to drive up the cost of motoring while a switch to a BEV would probably reduce that cost. You pays your money and you takes your choice, but for some reason advocates of PHEVs seem reluctant to talk about the lifetime cost of running an overly complicated car. 

Posted by: molgrips

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There is a lot riding on the VW iD2.

Well there will be if it ever appears 😀 

Not confined to Harry, but I think you need to be sceptical whenever somebody tells you that a change you'd like to see "just isn't realistic". It's a common argument by people who like the status quo to say that the thing you'd like to see sounds great but just isn't realistic. Change often seems impossible, right up to the point where it happens 😀 

Interesting Harry’s Garage vid out yesterday, where it shows the EV market may be about to change again and a move away from EV, or at least a move to more appropriate EV use

Sad old petrolhead indulges in another session of straw clutching

You can bet none of the Chinese or Korean OEMs or Tesla have told Harry change is unrealistic, just the laggacy European OEMs who have known BEV and emissions mandates were coming for years but somehow thought it would either never happen or they could pressure governments to drop it. 

Soo....

Long EV trip from Hove to the Netherlands... Absolute dream!

Left home with 100%, got to le shuttle with about 55% (sub zero temps!)... Topped up at the Tesla charger at only 50kW for about 20 min... Then through France and Belgium for a few hours.

Stopped for lunch near Ghent, and whacked in a tonne of juice at close to 150kW.. car charged more/faster than it took us to eat and pee!

Carried on for another few hours and arrived at Eftelling. Plugged into their (still dodgy and not always working) chargers..only getting 2.4kW, but doesn't matter as can't use the car for the week anyway!

My key takeaways from the whole trip:

1 - EV trips in this part of Europe are a dream... SOOOO many fast chargers all over the shop. Honestly, not an issue

2- DEFINITELY get an electroverse card. Last year I was faffing about with about £200 of preauthorisation payments at each charger when using debit card... An electroverse card just works. Plug. Blip. Go.

DrP

Sad old petrolhead indulges in another session of straw clutching

I'm not sure that's really fair at all.  Have you watched his other videos?

He's given EVs a good crack having already owned at least a couple and certainly doesn't dislike them.  The fact remains that a hybrid might well be a better fit for many people (me Inc unless I've missed the EV that can tow a 2 ton boat 120 miles).

I think he's right.... ICE are going to be around for a long time yet but with better hybrids meaning that more miles being powered by electricity.

Hiya,

Adding my two pennies worth into this discussion. I had a dilemma. I wanted to go electric but I had two vehicles already. Both are good and well maintained and really not time to be replaced, but one is a campervan. However in North Somerset the council are a total bunch of Nimby's. They have banned Campervans from their car parks, even though I'm a resident and the congestion charge into Bristol means my Euro 5 Campervan is charged each time and it's getting a pain. The car my wife uses for work and has loads of life to go. So the solution was simple keep both, get a Maeving RM1-S 😉 My commute and town trips are sorted my campervan is then there for long trips and that is fine. It arrives in the next few weeks 😉

BR

JeZ

I watched the video.

To be honest, I didn't think he really came up with any real reasons why EVs couldn't be rolled out by the time frame announced originally other then the automotive industry didn't want to and Taycans were crap. I mean that's hardly surprising really as he's a rich boomer paid by the car industry who likes to drive down through France several times a year in a V12 or a massive Land Rover and wants to keep doing it. The guy owns a couple of massive power boats and a fleet of cars - plus several houses. His carbon footprint probably equals several thousand of the most vulnerable people most affected by climate change and yet his answer is that EVs are fine for the little people but he would rather not have to bother with them and neither would the car industry so can we just keep on kicking the can down the road.

I mean I get it - I wouldn't want to buy a massive premium EV either, they are hugely overpriced, over tech'ed and not at all efficient. But then I wouldn't buy a power boat either or own several houses even if I could- we just can't live in that type of world anymore and to say we can because its too difficult to change anything is just a cop out.

I didn't think he really came up with any real reasons why EVs couldn't be rolled out by the time frame announced originally other then the automotive industry didn't want to

Main reason is charging infrastructure.

It's *really* pretty poor for a lot of people who see themselves as needing to be car owners.

You need a legislative/government push to persuade them that "you live in an apartment block in a city block of apartments with 3000 other people and we really can't put enough chargers in for everyone. Maybe you should cycle or catch a bus or use a fleet hire car?"

EVs are really suited for home owners with their own charging facilities. Most of the global car owning population doesn't have that luxury. Even if you just look at buyers of new cars it's probably less than a quarter who can charge at home in Europe.

As soon as you're charging away from home all the nervousness about cost (it's more expensive) and availability (all the chargers at my work are full by 8 am, and there are 1600 of them) hits. And they buy a small ICE and struggle to park on the already crowded streets...

He's given EVs a good crack having already owned at least a couple and certainly doesn't dislike them. 

Harry won't be happy with EVs until there's one that can haul, non-stop, a trailer containing one of his vintage Lambos or Ferraris from Burford up to Tyrrells Classic Cars in Hawarden to get fettled.

you live in an apartment block in a city block of apartments with 3000 other people and we really can't put enough chargers in for everyone

Where there's a parking space, there could be a charger. It would require a lot of work, but it's possible.

I wouldn't want to buy a massive premium EV either, they are hugely overpriced, over tech'ed and not at all efficient.

They are much more efficient than the equivalent massive premium ICE.

I'm not sure I'd agree the charging infrastructure is poor - possibly yes away from main arterial routes and centres of population - but for me the main issue around fast DC charging is the cost. Just extortionate.

The key fob doesn't always unlock the car

Polestar 3 and 4 were on my list for a Tesla alternative. Is it a proximity key fob? And can you use your phone as an alternative? 

as for Harry and his video, I think most of the comments have said it: European manufacturers kept their heads in the sand, made modest greenwashing progress, and are now existentially concerned by Chinese manufacturers. 

Where there's a parking space, there could be a charger. It would require a lot of work, but it's possible.

Work, money, legislation, disruption. And it'll *probably* be almost as expensive to charge as filling your existing hatchback, because you'll be paying the owner of the charger for the privilege of charging.

Many cities in Europe simply don't have the electrical architecture to support hundreds of fast chargers (or even moderately fast). So we're talking wholesale disruption. Not just digging up a carpark for a month.

Picked up my ID3 GTX at the weekend and all is lovely so far. Easy to drive (like a dodgem according to Mrs M), comfortable, software's fine (all is smooth and doesn't flip out) and the temperature sliders even light up. Got a fair bit more go to it than my outgoing Golf 1.6tdi too!

The only major difference so far is that it's a different way of using the accelerator, pound it like you do when pulling away in an ICE car and you get quite the launch! Regen is like engine braking 2.0 so you don't totally lift off when you want to slow down but you soon get used to it. Only mild annoyance is that I need to change the speed limit warning every time, but that's legislation rather than an EV thing. Also, didn't realise I rested my left hand on the gearstick quite so much - at least there's an arm rest.

There's lots of other nice features but they're all 'new car' things rather than being different because it's an EV, I could go on about the heads-up-display (love it) or lights that turn as you go around corners but I expect all those things would also come on a Golf or Passat anyway.

Overall it's been a few days of very happy motoring that'll no doubt turn into a few years of the same. Added bonus is I've just charged at work so I'm yet to pay for any 'fuel' so far. Do need to look into a seat cover or two for when the kids have been to footie/rugby, the interior's been 'done' to protect it but they're messy/dirty buggers so an extra precaution won't hurt.

Many cities in Europe simply don't have the electrical architecture to support hundreds of fast chargers

Yeah, the ones in every parking space would have to be slow.

Hi all,

I was surprised there was no responses to my message about buying a Maeving:

https://maeving.com/

if like me the current EVs are too expensive you need something to just get around and want an ev to do your bit, they make a lot of sense. 

I can keep my campervan for a fair few more years I now only need it for long journeys and I'm not barred from all car parks in North Somerset...

Best regards 

Jerry 

 "if like me the current EVs are too expensive you need something to just get around and want an ev to do your bit, they make a lot of sense."

I'd suggest that to 90% of people a second hand Nissan Leaf makes a lot more sense than a 7k unfaired electric motorbike which takes almost 3hrs to charge half way with what looks like not even a top box on it.....I mean they look nice but surely a Silence is way more practical and much cheaper.

I also find the retro styling a bit too fey. It's begging to be asked about and that's too much of a performance.

On a less positive note both Kia EV6's in the company fleet have been grounded due to a reported  'electrical system fault' that prevents charging. Both parked at (different) dealers awaiting the same part. 

Not ideal.

Yeah, the ones in every parking space would have to be slow.

The ones at work are nominally 11kW, some people have seen over this (by a collosal 0.5kW). But most seem to average out at about 4-5kW through the day. If you can get there at 6-7 am, or are working late, you can get your fill!

I've never even hit the limit on the OBC of my car (6.6kW) at work, most i've got is about 5, due to the fact that there are ~400 chargers within 150m of me.

I get more at home.

The ones at work are nominally 11kW

You have a choice between having everyone charge at 3kW all the time or charging at 6kW every other day etc.  Smart charging is part of this solution (the solution we don't yet have).

Great, my edit didn't go through...

The chargers at work average out at about 4-5kW, unless you are there early am (before 7:30) or after hours (17:00 or later).

You can actually see the chargers speeding up on the app at the shift finishing times as well.

Smart charging is part of this solution (the solution we don't yet have).

PodPoint chargers do exactly that - they’re designed to have more connections points than supply capacity and then use smart load balancing to manage it.  

https://pod-point.com/products/business/array

I saw these E motorbike guys at the Excel at the weekend https://international.naxeontech.com/

They are being sold from a distributor from the Wirral. Looks great and would be a decent choice of commuting vehicle.

Ive finally settled on a Indra smart lux charger for home which should work with either car or bike in the future.

Posted by: jezzep

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Hi all,

I was surprised there was no responses to my message about buying a Maeving:

 

https://maeving.com/

if like me the current EVs are too expensive you need something to just get around and want an ev to do your bit, they make a lot of sense. 

I can keep my campervan for a fair few more years I now only need it for long journeys and I'm not barred from all car parks in North Somerset...

I had to stick it into Google, I'd never heard of it - assumed it was a Chinese car that I'd not come across!  I quite like the look of it and I bet the ride's interesting.  What did you ride before and how does it compare?

...and can you get a sidecar for full "A Close Shave" vibes?

A question for those charging EVs at work: At my place of work we have to pay for charging. It's much less than public charging (18p/kW) but we have been told it cannot be free as that would make it a taxable perk. So how are other companies getting around this tax issue?

EV charging at work (or near work) can be free and is exempt from BIk as long as its offered to all employees

"The "health inspection" noted front pads and discs were 65% worn.". 

I got that for my Superb a year ago. Quoted around £300 for front discs and pads.  I declined on the basis that as the car was 6 years old I must have at least a year use left on them. One year on all still good.

I have just found a good mechanic for another job needing done on the car.  I asked him and he said £200 for best quality pads and discs.  I will get it done after they stop salting the roads this spring.  With 7 years on the first set they don't owe me anything and probably won't need done again while I own the car. If I assume they are now 3/4 worn I am only "wasting" £50 getting them changed now.

Next thing will be a set of all seasons. They are down to 3mm or 4mm around the car.  So fine for the summer but a set of 4 after another 6k or so in October.

@chrispoffer

I had to stick it into Google, I'd never heard of it - assumed it was a Chinese car that I'd not come across!  I quite like the look of it and I bet the ride's interesting.  What did you ride before and how does it compare?

I have ridden bikes for 27 years from Kawasaki's to Triumph's to Laverda's. I've had 6 bikes. The Maeving is fast light nimble and quiet. It's also dead cheap to run, with no major wearing parts like an ICE bike. I only rode briefly but it's perfect for my use cases of riding around Bristol and where I live a little way away. 

Obviously I have a full license and all my gear.

JeZ