The Electric Car Thread

With the subscription you are paying for some things that are not normally purchased for life, such as a network connection and software updates (not just upgrades to make it work better, but map updates etc.)  Of course you don’t actually pay in cash for Google or Apple maps, but that is another issue.

I don’t have a problem with this.  I could update the maps on the Zoe via a USB stick without being subscribed, but doing it over the air is less faff.  Also, it would not be a big deal not to have the  Renault app connectivity, it would be price sensitive not a must-have.  And as it happens we got a free extension to the services after they expired as Renault haven’t got the paying for it bit sorted.  I posted about that above, but reading some subsequent posts it seems like it is quite common for car manufacturers.

If you are on IOG with Ohme charger the pre conditioned by specific time gives 30 minutes at cheap rate on the schedule regardless of the time of day.

Oooh – i did NOT know this.

I have both those conditions! Will go and learn…

DrP

If you are on IOG with Ohme charger the pre conditioned by specific time gives 30 minutes at cheap rate on the schedule regardless of the time of day

I can’t find anything about this in the IOG or Ohme sites, so might just try it and see what happens – the IOG bills are very detailed so it’s quite possible to see what happened.

Does anyone have a link to where Octopus describe this at all?

I thought that the terms said any time the car is taking power you get cheap rate.

With the subscription you are paying for some things that are not normally purchased for life, such as a network connection and software updates

Yeah – just to be clear, with Hyundai, Nissan and probably most of them you’re paying for the servers and network connections and data feed for a live service, not the BMW style disable you car’s built in hardware unless you pay.

For example with Hyundai your app connects to a server which then talks to the car via a mobile signal – none of those things are free for Hyundai. You also get live traffic based satnav routing and live EV charger information, also likely not free for them.

Does anyone have a link to where Octopus describe this at all?

As @molgrips says it’s covered in T&C’s that all charging is on the low tariff when dynamic charging as IOG does all the scheduling . I also had this confirmed on the Octopus FB as it seemed to me you could game the precondition to run whole house at cheap rate so seemed a bit of a loophole.

Octopus do have a fair usage policy clause but I’ve not seen any reports of people being booted off the tariff yet.

I’ve done a bit of digging on the IOG Facebook group and it seems that preconditioning does not count as “smart” charging.  So you might get lucky and get it to put you on the cheap rate at the time but you might not.

I’m going to give it a try tomorrow – will be leaving the house at 6:30 am so I’ll set a departure time for then with preconditioning acrive and see what happens

Outside of preconditioning, yes you game the system to a degree by “accidentally” setting your car to be ready at a time in the middle of the day – it doesn’t always activate smart charging but usually does.  As said above there is a fair use policy.

^^^ good luck with that given the current impasse between IO and BMW charging 🙁

I’ve been on manual charging for past few weeks, BMW i4 FB groups suggest it’s getting sorted mid December tho, here’s hoping.

I’ve done a bit of digging on the IOG Facebook group and it seems that preconditioning does not count as “smart” charging

Preconditioning always is classed as smart charging with my setup, but this is maybe because my car doesn’t talk to iog, it’s all done via the charger.

Essentially whenever the car requests power it’s classed as smart charging and is done at the 7 p rate.

Hardware is fully present including the buttons on the steering wheel for adaptive cruise “following distance” adjustment.  No, I’ve not paid for either.

Not always, some of them remove the *very* expensive sensors (usually very easy to fit/modular). So depending on what sort of adaptive cruise you had the option of (and how good it is) there might just be a hole with a few capped off connectors behind the sensor plate/window.

Then again, some of the active safety offers around use exactly the same sensor stack, so it literally is a connect, click, update config. Only issue with hacking it is might brick your updates/online services, or they’ll just un-update your config change on a fairly frequent basis. Like people who do DIY activation of matrix headlights in the US (they’re not yet homologated for use).

Not always, some of them

Sorry – I was referring to my specific car (BMW i4) – the full hardware kit is definitely there including the front radar sensor, it’s just a case of stumping up £750.

Anyone got a VW id7? Need to order new company car soon, coming from a Skoda Enyaq which has been great for the last 3 years and 55k. I’m hoping for more rear legroom and a bit more range more than anything else

RE preconditioning / IOG / Ohme…

This is the spiel from the Ohme website..

Finally, it’s important to note that Ohme will ignore your price cap setting if needed, to allow for cabin preconditioning before your ‘Ready by’ time. This therefore means<b> you may be charged more for preconditioning charging during your peak hours depending on your tariff.</b> For example, if the ‘Ready by’ time is set to 8:00am and cabin preconditioning set to 30 minutes, Ohme will schedule to begin charging again around 7:30am, even if the off-peak window of your tariff ends earlier than this. This is to make sure Ohme meets your cabin preconditioning requirements and keeps your battery topped up for when you need it.

Not sure if this applies to INTELLIGENT tariffs… I mean – If i wanted i can manually ‘BOOST’ charge at full rate. It feels like this is what preconditioning does – ‘opens’ up the charger even if outside the cheap tariff times…

However.. some people on the IOD Reddit have said they have only been charged 7.5pkWh… but it’s hard to know if, for <b>that</b> day, the cheap rate ran till (say) 11am…

Will see when I get my car back.. this 3 hour job and MOT on Monday is taking a wee bit longer!

DrP

whatgoesup
Full Member
Not always, some of them

Sorry – I was referring to my specific car (BMW i4) – the full hardware kit is definitely there including the front radar sensor, it’s just a case of stumping up £750.

yeah, seems crazy. I bought the auto full beam, but the £750 for adaptive cruise is a step too far on a 4 yr lease car.

Adaptive cruise is a ‘extra’ cost on my EQA too.  Button and hardware all present but there is no way im paying for it to be activated.  I have access to Mercedes Star machine so may ask one of the mechanics to have a see if they can do it for me.  Unfortunately everything is now coded to the specific vehicle when doing updates (On the commercial range but im sure it will apply to the cars too) so its not just a case of plugging it in and selecting what you want to change.  You have to apply to Germany for them to issue a new coding, send it through and then bring the vehicle in for it to be updated.  You are paying for Germany to issue the new coding (vehicle specific) and for the dealership to then plug in and activate the code.  Still a rip off but not all down to the dealership.

I dont understand the issue with the preheat/conditioning.  Do you guys not have the option to put  schedule together for entire weeks/months/years for what time you want the car ready for you, toasty warm and battery preconditioned?  I have mine set for normal use and just override it for one off earlier starts.  Uses about 2% of battery at most.

I am a few weeks into running a new Polestar 2 and it is generally a really good experience. Cup holders should be better but otherwise it is great.

unlike the bmw and Mercedes cases above they are throwing loads of extras at the standard build and if it helps I have turned the adaptive cruise control off ?. The lane assist unlike my Octavia hybrid does not try to kill me on country roads which is a bonus.

efficiency seems pretty good if I am reading the data right at 3.5m per KW. This has been in a good mix of frosty mornings, flooded roads and storms and motorway, country and urban routes.

Awaiting a charger fitting but I mostly charge at work but I did use Tebay and ChargePlace in Castle Douglas and both were hassle free

Finally – after 16 months! – we have a Smart Meter installed and working. Our charger is not on the Octopus list, but as I can use Home Assistant to interrogate the Mini IOT appliance that’s getting rate updates every few minutes, I can – in theory – start and stop the charger based on thresholds I set up.

I’m rebuilding my whole automation setup over the break anyway, so this will be an interesting test.

Also test driving a Kia EV3 and a a MG Hybrid SUV thing early next year. Now we have cheap charging, I’ll be moving away from ICE to full EV or at Hybrid. The MG will do 75 miles on electric and based on my spreadsheet I started last year to record journeys (I know, get a life etc..), that’d cover 80%+ of my journeys. Only one or two a month are over 50 miles…but they tend to be 200 or 300+

Not sure if this applies to INTELLIGENT tariffs

No. Ohme are not billing you. Their statement says you MAY be charged full rate. Octopus however say that all the energy that goes into your car is billed at cheap rate, as long as you have it on a schedule.  They are the ones you should be asking, not Ohme.

if it helps I have turned the adaptive cruise control off ?

Might be an odd question, but why? I find it be one of the most useful features in the car!

And getting into a car with normal cruise is an exercise in “WTF!!!” every time the car doesn’t begin to slow down with the traffic, or keeps on with the power in a corner (city driving, low speed in traffic)!  I try to avoid using cruise if it *isn’t* adaptive these days.

I bought the auto full beam

This was recently reduced to £160 – I could not see the value of it. If it was already on my car (mt last had it) and they offered £150 to turn it off I would take the cash. I am able to work the controls of my car effectively.

Preheating the car is cheap with Ohme and IOG. So I can warm the car and have a cheap shower at the same time. My 32 page bill breaks it down in half hour increments so I can see it drop.

Also test driving a Kia EV3 and a a MG Hybrid SUV thing early next year. Now we have cheap charging, I’ll be moving away from ICE to full EV or at Hybrid. The MG will do 75 miles on electric and based on my spreadsheet I started last year to record journeys (I know, get a life etc..), that’d cover 80%+ of my journeys. Only one or two a month are over 50 miles…but they tend to be 200 or 300+

I can’t think why you would even entertain the idea of an MG Hybrid (or any Hybrid) with your use profile!

But having sat in both yesterday (well the EV version anyway) they are night and day apart and that’s before you drive them. The MG ZS is tiny in the back and narrow all over, the EV3 is huge in comparison. But the driving experience is streets ahead anyway. Not surprising as its a lot more money but if you can afford it there is no comparison. Hybrids are going the way of the dodo – better to get an EREV, they won’t be taxed as heavily and you still get the EV driving experience.

Right then gang. I have the chance to replace my A6 avant Quattro with an ev through work. The sheer saving makes it worth considering.

What I’m struggling with is proper equivalent cars with similar space and decent range. I do want four/all wheel drive and interior space.

Thoughts:

• Kia EV9 – less said the better
• new A6 e-tron, reports say its smaller inside than the current one, anyone seen?
• BMW i5 touring. No compromise on interior space but range a bit less good.
• Mercedes EQE SUV
• VW ID7 estate, anyone seen one?

What am I missing? It feels a little like these cars are all a bit bigger than the EV sweet spot

if it helps I have turned the adaptive cruise control off ?
Might be an odd question, but why?

I find it annoying. I live in Cumbria and travel up the M6 north to Glasgow and south to Manchester quite regularly. I keep good lane discipline so will move over to the left when the ten second gap applies. It is not a really busy stretch of motorway mostly so I am moving lanes frequently.

I find my it makes my speed erratic, I pull into the left hand lane after passing something then the radar latches onto a truck ahead and starts to slow me down when I want to close the gap a bit and overtake. I have tried playing with the distance setting but even on what I think is minimum it is cutting in very early. I think I pull out at sensible times and don’t get too close in normal driving but this is too cautious. I then find that a car that stayed in the middle lane that I was travelling slight faster than catches up due to the slowing down and I cannot time the move into the middle lane.

In short it is just too annoying so I bang it into a constant 72/73 and use my brain instead.

[northernremedy]

@northernremedy

I went out in the EV9 on a test drive earlier in the week.

It was a very easy car to drive, within a few minutes I was feeling comfortable with the width and the length (ooer). It was a very smooth drive and over the 45 minutes or so I had it, I did some motorway miles, A road and B road and city driving. The one pedal mode is very good.  All the tech worked nicely, including the heads up display. I loved the blind spot cameras that appear as round circles on the dash when you need them too clearly showing what’s next to you. Very clever. I was expecting a higher driving position given the size of the car, but it felt quite low down compared to my current vehicles.  Space inside the cabin is massive. If I was to have one then I would go with the 6 seat configuration that lets you turn the 2nd row seats around 180 . With the rear seats down the load area is huge, but if you install the cover , then there is not a lot of height between the underside and top of the “boot floor”. The ride is very conformable considering its springs rather than air suspension.

Looks are very subjective, but i like it.  I’ve currently got an ID buzz GTX on order , and i think i’ll stick with that for now.

I have turned off adaptive cruise sometimes on open motorways, as if it’s clear you want to be able to smoothly pull out rather than slow down. But on a busy motorway it’s great, and in a queue or slow moving traffic it’s amazing.  Especially combined with the lane follow assist.

What am I missing?

You really don’t need mega range. You think you do, at first, but you don’t.  If your employer is forcing you to drive 5 hours without a break then they’re breaking the law.

Cheers @revs1972. I just don’t think I can get away with its looks, but it does sound competent.

@northernremedy

Based on my experience with the BMW i4, out of your list I would be making a beeline for the BMW i5 touring. It’s what I’d like next if it should be available on our company car scheme when it comes time to change.

4WD Seems quite a bit less important on an EV than ICE due to how much better traction control is and also the better weight distribution without an engine at one end unbalancing things. So depending on the reasons you want / need 4WD you could consider a 2WD which generally improved efficiency hence range a bit.

 I just don’t think I can get away with its looks, but it does sound competent.

The matt blue helps , as do little things like the optional running boards…. but I think one would need to be brave to embrace it 😉

My son said it looked like a lego car 🙂

The i5 looks really good. Going to try and get a test drive

Polestar 3 or 4, Genesis GV70? All looking available a relatively good pricing on my scheme.

Just a comment on range – I was getting stressed about the decrease seen in winter weather, and of course thought about it all summer too in various driving and load conditions. Something this week clicked in my brain and I realised “why the hell am I worried about this?”. Always charge at home, very infrequent journeys over 200miles, so it really is a non issue.

Weird how all the ‘range anxiety’ press and social media comments affected me. Load of old balls. Wonder who pays for the bots that spread that shit, along with ‘shoulda kept my diesel!’ bollocks.

Absolutely, in reality it just becomes a big non event!

The front of the I5 looks horrendous.  The back 3/4 is fine.  The interior feels cramped to me, but car reviewers seem to love it and admittedly I’m coming from an i3 which is very airy by comparison.  The ID7 makes the I5 look like Kate Moss vs Katie Price.  The white one I saw just looked like a marshmallow.  Almost no lines to speak of on the front of it, just a load of shallow curves and bulging rounds bits.

 I have tried playing with the distance setting but even on what I think is minimum it is cutting in very early.

FWIW It’s actually measuring a time gap, not distance, i think the minimum is set at 1.1-1.2 seconds for a steady gap, starts ramping out torque earlier (obviously) and when it does that depends on your relative speeds. Unless you’re about to run into the back of a tractor doing ~50mph less than you, then you might need the brakes.

I tend to start planning to pull out as soon as i get the icon for “target car” appearing and judge based on the relative speeds shown on the speedo (though i have the latest version of the Volvo DIM, i’m not sure what’s shown on the PS2 these days).

[northernremedy]

northernremedy

I would look at a Polestar 4 my colleague has one they are really big  inside but not silly looking like the EV9 and have some great tech.  I went with the polestar 2 PPP on company scheme I dont need the space but the boot is massive.  I would certainly look at the BMW but hate all current new styling of BMW EV’s.

Thanks for that Mert I would say it is at least 10 seconds, as I say very early. I should maybe look at the manual again 🙂

Thanks @superscale20 the polestar definitely worth a look. I think the 3 is bigger than the 4? Will go check it out!

agree re comments on id7 styling.  Marshmallow. Plus the interiors on VW seem fairly awful apart from the ID Buzz. Sadly the buzz has been ruled out by the boss

I’ve watched this thread with interest and there has been some really useful information and feedback throughout, so thanks. My turn for questions now.

My wife is slowly coming on board to consider replacing her ageing, failing car (2010 VX Meriva B). With an electric car as an option based on it’s usage. Current car does c.6k miles PA, commuting 3days a week and then general local family runabout for our 3 growing kids. Our other car is a Tourneo minibus for longer trips/holidays/activities etc. (She used to cycle commute before someone chirps up, not an option now unfortunately).

I’d like to buy something 2-3years old, with less than 30k miles as we aim to keep for at least 5years and enjoy a bit of warranty. Don’t want something big (have van for that), but will need to be able to comfortably seat 5 (incl 2 teenagers in a couple of years). We can get a charger installed (assume c. £1k?) as have a driveway and modern electrics. We are already with octopus energy for access to EV tariffs.

We don’t want to lease, prefer to buy and have an asset. Although my wife asking about ID Buzz’s did prompt the discussion. We will probably take a loan to retain cash.

Looking at what’s available with 150miles+ range (long range not a huge concern for our use case) for around £10-12k ignoring superminis (Mii, E-Up, 500E etc). Options look to be:

– Hyundai Ioniq (original not 5). Good range, 5yr warranty. Not sat inside one but seems a decent size. Efficiency looks high. Seem to have good residuals.

– Hyundai Kona (smaller battery) – A few available in the price range, warranty as above. Big inside. Again, efficiency looks good?

-VX Corsa E – Already discounted this I think as not very big inside, having driven ICE version for work.

– Pug E-208 – Same as Corsa above (same car)?

– Renault Zoe – Can’t gauge how big interior is, but battery lease costs seem prohibitive? Plus the 0* NCAP (I know it’s not an unsafe car but it can’t help insurance costs).

– MG MG5 & ZS – not sure that we need something this big? Reviews suggest they are quite ‘cheap’ in terms of quality. Not that this is a huge concern it will have a hard life.

Tech/gizmos seem to be fairly consistent across models? All we really want would be heated seats and android auto. Although the ability to preheat/cool would be a bonus.

I’d appreciate thoughts and advice from the collective, any options I’ve missed? What are people’s experiences of insurance for the above models (are the EV horror stories true)?

The one thing I need to look at properly is whether the low mileage the car will do makes the higher purchase cost of an EV worth it (Corsa as an example ICE vs EV). As the charger install cost would pay for 18 months of petrol alone.

Too late to edit – I forgot the Nissan Leaf from the list above. Size looks good but is it relatively old tech even at 2022+ (no heat pump, poor battery temp management, slow charging etc)?