The Electric Car Thread

If the 2020 and 2021 cars are physically the same then you could go by mileage. But the 2021 is significantly better with improved interior, soundproofing (eg double pane front windows), efficiency, and the heat pump makes a huge difference in the winter.

Oh well, employer has ordered the Smart #1 Brabus today on a 3 year salary sacrifice thing. Delivery 2-3 weeks. Didn’t get the colour I wanted, but **** it, it’ll be fun.

So what’s the going rate per month on salary sacrifice these days – seems £400 plus on ours at work, and can’t be justified as I cycle to work. I am looking to spend £30-£40k on a van next year that I will keep for leisure – the equivalent electric version is much cheaper but range is useless – 120 mile – won’t work to get us into Wales over big hills.

Big hills don’t make a lot of difference to EV range. And you know, you can always stop and recharge. But yes, £40k is a hell of a lot of money for a vehicle with 120 mile range. I’d rather have a car with a bike rack tbh but that’s another argument.

So what’s the going rate per month on salary sacrifice these days – seems £400 plus on ours at work

I’m not sure what you mean? Salary sacrifice will be a % off whatever the lease price is. Mrs dd’s last employer used Octopus to run the scheme as it was hundreds of cars. It was handy in that insurance, maintenance, tyres etc was included in one monthly fee. My present employer is doing a straight 1 + 36 and administering it for employees through HR/accountant (we’re an SME so not that many cars to administer). The savings are quite a bit better without outsourcing it to a 3rd party provider.

i agree with molgrips. £30-40k for 120 miles is a bit rubbish.

Just been looking at teh smart Brabus stats…

3.7 sec 0-60.. faster than my P2 as it looks lighter!

It makes me chuckle that a Smart car is faster (accelerating) than the entry level (£90k) , and POSSIBLY the next level Porche Taycan!!!

DrP

It makes me chuckle that a Smart car is faster (accelerating) than the entry level (£90k) , and POSSIBLY the next level Porche Taycan!!!

Yep – but the entry level [Porsche] Taycan is RWD and can’t get the power down that well…. next up is the 4S which is AWD does 0-60 in 3.5.

Frankly they’re all fast but it’s not just about speed is it?!

Which would you rather be in? If I was spending £45k I’d rather buy an 18 month old Taycan with 15k on the clock.

I think you’d rather an ICE @sharkbait. Unless you’ve checked what Porsche will do if your Taycan battery fails in twenty years time?

Taycan 4s, AWD, is 0-60 of 3.7, so the same!

Anyway, my comment wasn’t about which is more luxury etc etc (obvs the porche), but that nowadays, with EV power, you could out ‘drag race’ a high spec Porche in a basic(ish) family car!

No need to mod, boost the turbo, or remap!

Sorry that was lost on you!

DrP

Taycan 4s, AWD, is 0-60 of 3.7, so the same!

3.5s with Launch Control

nowadays, with EV power, you could out ‘drag race’ a high spec Porche in a basic(ish) family car No need to mod, boost the turbo, or remap!

You make that sound like the Taycan is an ICE but they’re both electric soooo [shrugs].

The base Taycan is hardly ‘high spec’ – hence why it’s the ‘base’ model!

Ah, yes, I was looking at the 0-62 times…

You make that sound like the Taycan is an ICE but they’re both electric soooo [shrugs].

Not really my intention – historically the powerful and fast [ICE] engines really were ‘reserved’ for supercars or highly modified versions of basic family cars (M5, RS6 etc)…

As a not – Deadlydarcey’s Smart car will out accelerate all 718 Cayman & 718 Boxster, all Cayenne  ranges, many 911s etc etc… Even the highest spec/trim..

Nowadays you can get supercar acceleration in a basic family car (thinking P2, brabus smart, tesla M3 DM etc) that you can get on salary sacrifice etc etc…

I can’t recall my dad saying “son, my Volvo could out accelerate that Ferrari”

Anyway.. I’msure you get where I’m coming from (that EV motors can now be whacked into any old car, and make them go fast)

DrP

Without wishing to probe too deeply into anybody else’s finances, I’m also interested in how these salary sacrifice schemes work out overall.

I’m a simple fellow and have always just bought whatever I can comfortably afford with what I have in the bank. Originally that was old bangers, more recently it’s been new cars, but always with an eye on the total cost and what else I could do with that money.

In principle a salary sacrifice scheme sounds like a great deal. Buy a car with your pre-tax salary. Sounds great. But when I try to look a bit closer it seems that you are not buying the whole car with you pre-tax salary at all as there is usually a deposit and a final lump sum to pay in order to actually own the car. So really you’re just getting a discount on the depreciation, which for EVs is still pretty steep.

Take the Smart # 1 Brabus mentioned above. You can pick up a one year old model with around 10k on the clock for around £27k. What would the total price of buying one outright on a salary sacrifice scheme be?

Take the Smart # 1 Brabus mentioned above. You can pick up a one year old model with around 10k on the clock for around £27k. What would the total price of buying one outright on a salary sacrifice scheme be?

I view any money spent on a car as money down the drain, that is rather not spend. If I’m going to have car, then I’d like a nice one please. Even if I have to burst into tears every time I see Nige pull alongside me in his Taycan.

The Smart Brabus is a pre-registered sat-in-a-UK port-somewhere car so is being offered at a good discount. The Lease is around £420 on a 1+36 contract. No, I won’t own it. My employer will pay the lease and insurance, apply all discounts and I end up with a net deduction of around £215 plus insurance (which I also pay before tax, etc) but will be around £35 pm.

split between mrs dd and me, that’s not much more than £100 per month each to have a nice, but admittedly way less erection inducing than a Porsche, car.

the last car we owned ended up costing us a fortune in timing belts etc (scheduled) just to try and sell the **** thing.

this car will be fully covered for the 3 years we “have” it. The only thing we’ll have to pay for is one maintenance and maybe some new shoes. I imagine with the (less luxurious, less prestigious) acceleration, and mrs dd’s heavy foot, we’ll probably get through a set of those.

all £ on cars is throwing it away. I’ve “owned” cars for years. They’re a pain in the arse.

as above, the salary sacrifice schemes are generally a lease, but more cost effective than a personal one as tax is deducted from it at source, so your net payment in a month is lower than doing it privately.  Some include maintenance and tyres and servicing, some don’t, depends on the scheme provider and the deal that the employer sets up.

Thanks both, yes I get the theoretical advantages of buying stuff with your pre-tax income, I’m just wondering how that actually works in practice.

If I’ve done my maths right the Brabus will actually cost you (after tax) around £8k over the three years. So what would it then cost to keep the car? Also, are there any limits on how far you can drive it in those three years? I typically do around 20k per year.

@Roverpig I can only discuss my Salary Sacrifice scheme. I have no idea if they are all the same.

I have a 7 month old Audi Q4 eTron Sportback Black Edition. Book value is £67k (with a few upgrades).

No deposit required. Over a 4 year term and 15,000 miles a year.

This is a cost of approx £520 a month. (Difference between my pre car bring home and current bring home)

I installed an EV charger at my girlfriends, cost £1000.

Charging is pennies. Our electricity bill has actually gone down, we’ve moved washing, dish washing to all be at the same time as the car charging. The charger has paid for itself now, my old fuel bill was £60 a week approx.

I don’t have to pay for servicing, insurance or new tyres.

My previous car was a Cupra (Leon model) 2 litre petrol (300 hp, same as the EV). The Cupra was a great car, absolutely loved it. But it was 4 years old and while it had no issues the fuel bill, insurance and tyres added up.  I paid monthly for the car on PCP.

For me, I’m not paying any more than I was previously. At the end of my PCP deal I could have bought the car outright (balloon), but I wanted a shiney new car….

I get I’m fortunate enough to be in this position. I know I could drive a cheaper car, pay more into my pension l, retire earlier…. However, this works for me.

I’ve had my Smart #1 Brabus for 8 months now, it has been a while since I’ve had anything that I’ve not played the “what would I swap it with” game after 8 months but there is genuinely nothing I’d swap it for right now. Boot is tiny, lots of other EVs have better range, that’s pretty much my negative list. Usually just me in it, golf clubs fit with one seat forward and tilted. It has done 2 trips into the office this week and some general running around and I’ll charge it overnight tonight. Overall running costs are same or slightly less than an Octavia estate on previous very cheap lease deal.

They were 3.9 to 60 when I got mine so not sure if re-tested or power increased but it is plenty quick. Lovely place to sit, had loads of comments how nice it is and how Mercedes like. With the power it has in Comfort (RWD until AWD needed) it’ll twitch at the rear before the power is cut or front wheels join in, that mode is limited power and is still quicker than most cars around. Overall it is a fantastic cruiser into work, inside lane dynamic cruise, decent stereo, good controls and Apple car play etc, then turns into a proper quick car when needed. I absolutely love it.

Oh and it has a super annoying rattle behind the screen but with something playing I can ignore it easily enough not to take it back. Actually add in the black paint is properly soft, came with swirl marks and difficult not to add more. Benefits of a lease not having to care that much I guess.

Also, are there any limits on how far you can drive it in those three years?

yes, and the cost per mile over is punitive. You’ll find that, I think, it’s annual mileage that affects monthly cost most. 20k pa will easily lob £150-200 onto whatever lease deal is showing on screen (which always look like bargain because they’ll be a 9/12 month down, +48 etc; so ignore those.)

as for owning the car afterwards, I haven’t checked. Some lease companies want them back and won’t sell. Some will.

maybe in three years, I can get the Taycan. :o)

Anyway.. I’msure you get where I’m coming from (that EV motors can now be whacked into any old car, and make them go fast)

100% agree…. it’s almost the new norm!

 Deadlydarcey’s Smart car will out accelerate all 718 Cayman & 718 Boxster, all Cayenne  ranges, many 911s etc etc… Even the highest spec/trim..

Absolutely – but it’s not all about the speed obvs.

[True story]

We were pottering [50mph] down the road in MrsSB’s 718 Boxster with the roof down on Monday and I was thinking how lovely it was to just listen to the gentle thump, thump, thump of the boxer engine right behind us.  They’re probably going to make the 718 all electric and it just wouldn’t be the same without that background beat. You don’t have to go quick!

[/True story]

just wouldn’t be the same without that background beat

many EV’s can have a background beat of your choice coming through the loudspeakers …

They’re probably going to make the 718 all electric

Pretty much guaranteed for launch next year – boxster version first then cayman. Watching that with interest…

Absolutely – but it’s not all about the speed obvs.

Agreed..despite loving the #EVlife…

I still really enjoy watching YouTube videos on ICE tech, and car modding/racing!

I very nearly bought a dihatsu copen, just for fun..!

DrP

Thanks for the details of the salary sacrifice schemes. It sounds as though, despite the tax advantages, it still tends to end up costing a fair wack. But it’s all relative and depends how keen you are to have a new car and what else you could do with the money of course. There are no wrong answers really, as long as the kids aren’t going without food 🙂

gentle thump, thump, thump of the boxer engine right behind us

That would drive me nuts. Cars come with soundproofing and a bangin’ stereo for my tunes for a reason.

The Smart Brabus mentioned above comes with a choice of two engine sounds if you really want it to fart when you put your foot down. Thankfully you can switch it off though 🙂

Thankfully you can switch it off though 🙂

oh I’m very much having it on. I’ll close my eyes and dream I’m in a nice, slow Porsche.

(I won’t close my eyes, promise!)

Test drove the Genesis GV60 today and super impressed with it.  Great ride and comfort levels as well as cool tech e.g. blind spot camera displays either side of the speedo depending on which way you indicate.  Definitely top of the shopping list so far.

I don’t want any thumping or banging or roaring as I am travelling about the countryside at the speed limit FFS. I want silence, maybe a gentle whoosh to indicate motion.

Test drove the Genesis GV60 today and super impressed with it.

Glad you liked it.

Be aware that some of the cool tech is optional though. The blind spot cameras are part of  the Innovation pack.
Even the absolute poverty spec base model still has lots of cool kit though.

the cost per mile over is punitive. You’ll find that, I think, it’s annual mileage that affects monthly cost most. 20k pa will easily lob £150-200 onto whatever lease deal is showing on screen (which always look like bargain because they’ll be a 9/12 month down, +48 etc; so ignore those.)

This is a big cost killer but that’s also an ICE issue.  Totally switched me off the EV6 about a year ago when it was coming in at around  £700/month (iirc).

I’m at that 15k up to 20k a year spot so I tend to buy at 4-5 years old/up to 50k miles and hopefully I’ll get 4-5years before the bills are piling in too quickly.  It seems to work ok.  With long term battery life seemingly not as awful as people (I) feared that space is starting to back fill with some affordable and capable cars. Still more £ than ICE car for car (size/class) but definitely better options.

Was chatting with my dad today about EVs.  I found myself wavering about whether we’d have been better with a 4 year old Ioniq5 than our recently bought diesel Skoda.  Job is done now but I’m more convinced than ever that we are into our last 3-4 years of ICE cars as a household.

I did 360 miles last Thursday and in my head I could actually see while we were travelling  how I would make that work fairly easily.  I think we’d have been half an hour or so slower on the 225 mile evening run to the North, which would have been annoying but tolerable.  Very unusual day though with work travel then a long slog up to a family thing.

Caranddriver just tested the new model 3 performance to 60 in 2.8 seconds

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62640173/2024-tesla-model-3-performance-quicker-acceleration/

That’s quicker than pretty much everything this side of £200k. Not bad for 60k

Yet still utterly pointless.

The weird obsession with 0-60 in EV’s baffles me. Yes, they are quicker than IC, that’s established.

You are motoring, not playing Top Trumps.

Enjoy being baffled, I guess….

Other views are available.. I like top trumps…

DrP

Are they giving the fast evs the brakes and handling to go with the acceleration yet? or are they still just just one trick straight line pony’s?

I ask, as our eqc (pretty old in terms of ev designs) is pretty quick in terms of acceleration, 0-60 in 5 seconds, but the brakes and handling are of a car that would do 0-60 in 10 seconds.

And from what I can deduce from reading reviews  about a lot of other fast evs, they seem to follow the same formula, good brakes and handling are rarely mentioned, which leads me to believe they not very good for a lot of fast evs.

Disclaimer, I have not driven many other evs, but have driven a lot of fast ice cars over the years, so know what good handling and brakes bring to the overall picture.

Edit: I think the model 3 performance does have decent handling from reading reviews, but so many others don’t seem to.

Are they giving the fast evs the brakes and handling to go with the acceleration yet? or are they still just just one trick straight line pony’s?

well…

The #1 Brabus gets:

Different Alloys (same size and tyres). A rear spoiler extended by an inch or so. Some vents in the bonnet that go nowhere. Some red detailing on the front, side and rear skirts. Selective AWD.

Oh and Rocket Launch mode.

So, as you can see, it’ll handle all that extra speed easily. :o)

well…

The #1 Brabus gets:

Different Alloys (same size and tyres). A rear spoiler extended by an inch or so. Some vents in the bonnet that go nowhere. Some red detailing on the front, side and rear skirts. Selective AWD.

Oh and Rocket Launch mode.

So, as you can see, it’ll handle all that extra speed easily. :o)

Lol, yep, that’s exactly what I mean.

The performance edition polestar 2 (which..I don’t have!) has bigger brembo discs and calipers, and ohlins suspension…

#salivates….

The BST 270 has even better shocks.

To be fair on the standard P2, the brakes are fairly sizeable at 345mm front, and has wide tyres (the rears rims are an inch wider than the front!).

Additionally, I’ve lowered mine.

However, I completely agree that it’s all pointless and.  99% of the time I’m cruising around in complete peace, probably at about 26mph, accelerating slowly etc…!

But… I’m a kid at heart, and I’m completely honest on that fact it’s kinda cool to have a near 500hp car!

DrP

That’s why the pick of the range for any given electric car is usually the biggest battery, single motor version with the smallest wheels. Gives the greatest range but throttles back the performance to match the characteristics of the actual car to make it just quick enough

Regarding the engine noise thing, I find myself equating it to loud hubs on a bike.

I’ve had loud clicky Hopes, loud buzzy C King and Superstar 120poe things.

I quite like loud hubs, but then I started using Onyx silent hubs on a couple of bikes, and on balance, I prefer it.  Given the choice one way or another, silent wind hands down, but I like to hear someone else cruise by with a silly loud I9 or similar occasionally.

I just don’t want it myself.

Same with noisy cars.

I love to hear, in no particular order, a proper old American V8 muscle car, a healthy cross flow on Weber’s at full welly in a rally car, a scooby Impreza burbling by at low speed, air cooled Porsches, Harley shovelhead or older, Golf R32, a screaming four cylinder bike.

I just don’t want that soundtrack while trundling down the A9 in the family car. Give me electric calm anytime.

Of course, come the lottery win, the MST MK1 with a Millington is top of the list alongside the leccy car.

And some daft old Harley.

And maybe a slightly rodded 50s Chevrolet…

.