Home Forums Chat Forum The Electric Car Thread

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  • The Electric Car Thread
  • bedmaker
    Full Member

    One of the things which helped tip the balance for me to take the plunge into EV ownership is the many videos on YouTube with huge mileage Teslas.

    There’s plenty around now with 150K + miles of largely trouble free motoring.  One I saw recently had a 3 with 200K miles and the guy had almost exclusively hammered the charge into the battery with supercharger.  The battery should be pretty trashed but upon testing the degradation was quite minimal really, down to 88% or so, I don’t remember exactly.

    Three weeks in, I absolutely love driving this car!  I’m finding myself driving around with no radio on, just enjoying the lovely quietness of it.  The effortless wafting torque and rapid acceleration is rather nice too.

    1
    DickBarton
    Full Member

    I’m almost exclusively using a 7kw charger (free use at the office), so my battery gets charged to 100% over about 5 hours during the day – car is 7 months old and done about 6.3k miles.

    Think I’ve used a fast charger (22kw) about 5 times and only charged to 80% using that.

    My thinking is the 7kw is a slow charge so the battery doesn’t get as warm so the degradation isn’t the same and is far slower.

    Selfishly, the car is a lease so will be handed back after 3 years, so I’m not losing sleep over it, but at the same time, I’m not wanting to deliberately ruin the battery.

    revs1972
    Free Member

    I have just started the purchasing process for my first ever new car (46 and only ever bought used). A VW buzz GTX. I’ll let you all know how it goes!

    what configuration did you go for ?

    I’ve got a 6 seat , 86 kWh, LWB on order . Has your dealer given any indication to delivery dates yet ?

    sanername
    Full Member

    7 seater GTX in silver, I have 3 kids and often a mother in law… didn’t seem to be that many options. A guy from the VW main office called me to check my interest and said that my local dealer would call me soon. He seemed to think it’d be a couple of months.

    iainc
    Full Member

    currently a year and a bit into an i4 as a salary sacrifice lease car. Absolutely love it.  When it comes for replacement in 3 years I may be financing myself as hopefully will be retired. An ID Buzz, second hand and about a year old, is top of my current wish list.

    Will be just me, wife and dog most of the time, but the concept of lots of internal bike space, rather than a towbar rack, is attractive, assuming it is actually practical to do that with seats down.

    dove1
    Full Member

    Just over a year in my Kia EV6 and still love it. No problems so far and it’s lovely to drive.

    The majority of charging is done overnight at home on the Intelligent Octopus Go tariff with the odd public charging session when on long trips. Just over 10,000 miles and total charging cost has been £203 home charging and £120 public charging.

    First service was performed by the local Kia dealer last week. It took them about 35 minutes, and that included washing and vacuuming the car and taking a video showing me the underneath of the car!

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    SuperScale20
    Free Member

    Thanks TheLittlestHobo

    I have a Polestar Performance Model since 25th Sept and use one pedal option but find it impossible to judge the benefit of Brake Regeneration.

    revs1972
    Free Member

    7 seater GTX in silver, I have 3 kids and often a mother in law… didn’t seem to be that many options. A guy from the VW main office called me to check my interest and said that my local dealer would call me soon. He seemed to think it’d be a couple of months.

    I’ve gone for the same colour. Currently have a nuclear yellow ( as the kids call it) , so wanted something a bit tamer this time. The other GTX colours didn’t really do it for me, but having seen the Silver in the flesh it really looks nice.

    VW dealers vary massively for customer service, so I’d be pro-active if you haven’t heard from them soon. Our local(ish) commercial one was absolutely crap in getting back to me when I was buying my current vehicle , so I ended up buying one from 170 miles away at a dealer who was actually interested in selling you something.  I have the GTX on order through one of the VW car dealers not too far from home. I’ve also used them when I had an issue with seat airbags and the current problem with the peeling vegan steering wheel which is being replaced with a proper leather one this week. Just hope VW spec the new ones with a real leather steering wheel ( or at least a better synthetic one). Apart from that , no other issues with it, and the GTX should improve that experience.

    rugbydick
    Full Member

    Think I’ve used a fast charger (22kw) about 5 times and only charged to 80% using that.

    22kW isn’t a fast charger. It’ll still be an AC supply, so limited by whatever size inverter is installed in your vehicle (most likely 7 or 11kW)

    FuzzyWuzzy
    Full Member

    22kW isn’t a fast charger

    It is in terms of how chargers are classified (fast is 7-22kW)

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    roverpig
    Full Member

    I’ll be interested to hear what you think of the Smart #1 @shinton as it’s still on my list of possible options for the next car. Mind you I’ve been looking at EVs for months and still keep oscillating between various interesting newer models, “just get a Tesla as at least they bloody work” and “just keep my current 140k mile ICE car running a bit longer and see what happens”, with the last option currently in pole position.

    Lots of cars look interesting on paper and get glowing reviews, but then when you check the owner’s forums they start to look like a nightmare. Obviously people tend to report the problems and happy drivers don’t tend to post, but the EX30, for example seems to have truly awful software and the Smart is not without its issues. Most outrageous one I’ve seen so far is an owner claiming that they can’t get a cracked windscreen fixed as Autoglass won’t touch it because the glass roof needs to be removed to replace the windscreen and even the local dealer won’t do that. Can’t believe that’s really true to be honest. Would any manufacturer really be allowed to release a car where you couldn’t replace the windscreen?

    FuzzyWuzzy
    Full Member

    What are your thoughts regarding what happens when a battery runs out of warranty.

    Obvs it will keep on working but what if there’s an issue big enough to require a new battery.

    This cost could obviously be huge and that might lead to the whole car being scrapped.

    Can’t say I’ve given it much thought – for me it would be similar to worrying about if an ICE engine blew up, can happen but unlikely. A battery will continue to slowly degrade and may get to the point it’s had so many charging cycles it’s degraded to the point it’s no longer fit for purpose but that figure is generally very high for current EV batteries and should only improve with new tech. I only charge my EV every week or two as I don’t do many miles, if I was doing a lot of miles and charging to 100% every night I’d probably lease in order to take battery degradation concerns out of the equation.

    If that’s the case it might lead people to think that EVs are effectively disposable items with very little value after the 8/10 year warranty runs out.

    It’s a bit early to say what the “battery degradation will likely mean range is reduced to such an extent the car is essentially scrap” figure is but it will be well in excess of 10 years (there’s already Tesla Model S’s older than that with perfectly usable batteries). I’d guess 15-20 years will be more like the age current EV batteries will get to the point they’re near useless in terms of being able to hold charge and as others have said who know what tech will exist then to regen them or if governments will offer subsided replacement schemes etc.

    If I bought a car it would be 2-3 years old and have an 8 year warranty.

    If I’m faced with potentially a bill for maybe £30-40k after 8 years of ownership then I’m less than keen to enter that ownership experience!

    That’s pretty much my situation (bought a 2 year old Polestar 2 that comes with an 8 year battery warranty). I’m not planning to change it at or before 8 years, how long I keep it will depend on my future requirements, how many general issues I end up having with it and the state of my finances. All of these are the same reasons I’ve changed previous ICE cars (the last two of which I owned were both replaced after 10 years).

    A replacement battery is also unlikely to be £30-40k unless it’s a £100k+ purchase cost car whereby the manufacturer is going to charge a premium just because they can. A Tesla Model 3 replacement is supposedly around £15k inc. labour.

    As I said, for me battery degradation/failure isn’t really a concern (any more than say my house roof failing through age and not being covered by insurance) but if it is for you then you really need to look at leasing or self-insuring (e.g. putting money aside into an investment account that factors in the car being near worthless in x number of years and need replacing).

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    I’ll be interested to hear what you think of the Smart #1


    @roverpig

    Our PS2 was whipped back off us by wife’s redundancy (salary sacrifice car) so we’re hunting around. Test drove a Smart#1 at the weekend and it’s the first car I’ve actually really liked since saying byebye to the PS. My employer has said they’ll do me a ss on an electric so we’re hovering on pushing the button on a Brabus.

    I think the software will take some getting used to. Android auto was pretty easy on the PS. But with wireless CarPlay, I’m not massively bothered. Voice recognition was really good and responsive. No lag at all.

    Lack of boot space will take some getting used to. But overall, it felt really nice inside.

    shinton
    Free Member

    Brabus looks a beast but with no upgraded suspension over the base model I’m not sure I could trust myself.  Hopefully test driving one on Thursday @roverpig and on Friday Genesis are bringing over a GV60 to the house for me to test.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Brabus looks a beast but with no upgraded suspension over the base model I’m not sure I could trust myself.

    you’d imagine it was me and not Mrs dd that plumped for the Brabus. We test drove the Premium and that was fine for me. Someone didn’t like the white trim inside! Ffs.

    I won’t be driving the Brabus anywhere near as intended. The 4WD will be nice. But it’s not really set up as a performance car, is it?

    roverpig
    Full Member

    Thanks both,

    Yes, I looked at the Brabus but all it seems to offer is a bit less range and some bonkers acceleration. The latter sounds like fun but I know that in practice that would just get me into trouble and the standard model is no slouch. Maybe it would cope better with an Aberdeenshire winter (maybe) but the Premium is a chunk cheaper and I suspect the extra range may prove more useful than the extra motor. I’m with your wife though @deadlydarcy I’m not sure about the white interior either 🙂 A bit first generation ipod for me.

    perchypanther
    Free Member

    on Friday Genesis are bringing over a GV60 to the house for me to test.

    If it’s one with the camera digital door mirrors, don’t be put off. They are awful. The old fashioned glass mirrors are far superior in every way.
    The base model Premium is the pick of the bunch with the best range and best ride quality and is plenty quick enough.  If I was getting another i’d upgrade to the Nappa leather interior and the sunroof.

    mboy
    Free Member

    Just had a test drive in a VW ID7 Tourer… Very impressed with it!

    Anybody here own one?

    What are we typically seeing for real world ranges vs claimed ranges for VW group cars on the whole?

    2
    molgrips
    Free Member

    for me it would be similar to worrying about if an ICE engine blew up, can happen but unlikely

    This. The engine on my 11 year old Mercedes could explode tomorrow. Would I tow it to the main dealer and ask for a new engine? Of course not. That would probably be £20 grand, 2.5x its market value. I’d have an independent refurbish it* or get one from eBay for .. checking… £2k.

    the latter has a greater chance of bursting into flames all on its own.

    Does it? Is it a greater chance than a tank of petrol? Serious question.

    And how are insurance companies going to view vehicles that have had a battery transplant from a scrapped car?

    They will have to respond. If we are all forced to buy EVs because the supply of new ICEs is either banned or dries up, then there must be a solution as most people cannot afford to scrap £10k cars or pay huge insurance premiums. If that were the case, then motoring would go back to being only for rich people (some might say this was no bad thing). But clearly we are not ready for that. This is a situation where the market would probably deliver – we would never end up with a huge pile of repairable cars and large ready market of people with no car who want one…

    * who am I kidding? It’d be on the bench in my garage for two months…

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I’d like to buy a 2 year old car now and know that it’s still going to have a resale value in 10 years time.

    How much are 12 year old ICE cars worth now? Not a fat lot. How much are you going to save on fuel in that 10 years? Probably more than the difference even if your EV were worth nothing. We are saving about a grand a year on fuel even with a modest commute. If your ICE were worth £3k at 12 years old and your EV nothing, you are still £7k ahead.

    greyspoke
    Free Member

    22kW isn’t a fast charger

    According to how these things are classified (as opposed to the ordinary language meaning, which moves with the times) 22kW is “fast”, anything above that being “rapid” or “ultra rapid”.

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    Does it? Is it a greater chance than a tank of petrol? Serious question.

    There are billions of tanks of petrol sat around (think of every engine still in use…. Not just vehicles) and bursting into flames is extremely rare.

    Batteries, on the other hand, do have a bit of a rep for combustion and that’s before some back street garage has “repaired” them!

    So I’d say the answer is yes!

    1
    molgrips
    Free Member

    Batteries, on the other hand, do have a bit of a rep for combustion

    Got any real stats though? There is a huge amount of disinformation on this, most of it is bollocks spouted by angry and idiotic petrol headed Americans.

    2
    thepurist
    Full Member

    The Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency (MSB) reported 23 fires in 611,000 EVs during 2022, or 0.004 per cent in a year, which makes it 20 times less likely to happen than ICE car fires, which burned 3,400 times in 4.4 million cars, or 0.08 per cent.

    There aren’t many detailed studies into ev fires but the Swedish one mentioned above was apparently thorough and came to the conclusion that ICE vehicles are catching fire much more than EVs are, but that EV fires can be harder to manage.  Also, the EV fleet in that survey is likely to be newer and therefore probably better maintained than the ICE fleet so there’s still the question of what happens  to those stats when Bob’s Back Street garage has soldered in a new cell from AliExpress

    1
    revs1972
    Free Member

    most of it is bollocks spouted by angry and idiotic petrol headed Americans.

    And that annoying flat capped **** , Geoff on the Youtube.

    andy4d
    Full Member

    loving my EV that I got in March so much that we are considering chopping in my wife’s 9 year old panda for a 500e. Her car is at that stage of bills coming in the near future so either stick with it and put the money in as the bills come in or go for the EV. She spends about €120 a month on petrol and this would be about €20 in electricity freeing up €100 towards the monthly and no bills for a few years. Was mooching at a dealer today who said they have pre registered 2023 cars sitting with zero miles on them if I was interested!!! Looks like they are really not shifting them so might get a good deal. TBH as my wife sees cars as a tool/mobile bin and not a luxury, dings every car and eats clutches etc so we have always kept away from new/nearly new cars but as EVs are so easy to drive I think it would actually help. Be interesting to see what sort of deal the garage come back with…..and more importantly, what her insurance company say.

    bassmandan
    Full Member

    @mboy I have a 2 week old id7 tourer (base model). It’s awesome. It’s done approx 1000 miles and averaged 3.8mi/kWh. 500 miles of that has been in dark/rain across from Chester to Ashton under lyne in rush hour – drive there was about 3.6, return journeys around 5pm in the light and not rain were up to about 4.5.

    I hoped I’d get 300 miles to a full charge on average which so far seems realistic.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    I’d guess 15-20 years will be more like the age current EV batteries will get to the point they’re near useless in terms of being able to hold charge and as others have said who know what tech will exist then to regen them or if governments will offer subsided replacement schemes etc.

    But it seems that many batteries are designed *not* to be easily replaced or upgraded.
    It seems to me that having an easily upgraded battery would be sensible and desirable.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    But it seems that many batteries are designed *not* to be easily replaced or upgraded.

    Really? I have seen a few tear downs, they don’t seem particularly difficult. What makes you think they are specifically designed against that? I’m pretty sure most manufacturers realise they’d be shooting themselves in the foot big-time if in 10 years’ time they get a reputation for being un-repairable. That would destroy their rep in a way they would never recover from.

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    RichPenny
    Free Member

    “But it seems that many batteries are designed *not* to be easily replaced or upgraded. It seems to me that having an easily upgraded battery would be sensible and desirable.”

    Not sure that is much different from an engine, no? Though as I understand it the battery is more structural in some vehicles.

    In terms of repairability over the longer term, I’d be more concerned about the amount of electronics in the car. Which isn’t now that different between an EV and an ICE.

    1
    argee
    Full Member

    Car design has been a nightmare for a while now, used to be designed more around ease of maintenance, but now it’s ease of manufacture, a few manufacturers also tend to design out the ability for third parties to maintain their vehicles, with technology advancing it’ll not get any better in this area i fear.

    As for EVs, they are the future, technology is advancing in battery, car and computing areas, i dare say the EVs of today will be outdated in 10 years, so anyone buying an EV thinking in 10 years it’ll be worth much is not going to fair well i think, but that’s the same with ICE now, when it comes to owning cars, we just spend x amount each year and will need to factor that in for future purchases, and just suck up amortisation on our purchases.

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    molgrips
    Free Member

    The amount of electronics is about the same in ICE and EV, however EVs have the inverter and associated electrics under the bonnet. However there is very little heat and vibration under there. I drove 2hrs on windy roads, then when I stopped I put my hand on the inverter engine and it was barely lukewarm. Compare that to the heat and vibration your ICE electronics have to put up with.

    The battery can be structural but that doesn’t mean it’s part of the chassis itself, it’s just a chassis member – and it can be removed. How do you think they get it in there?

    This is a complete Kia EV6 77.4kWh battery listed on eBay (for £3.5k) alongside all the other car parts for everything under the sun. Looks like it’s just dropped out from underneath, you can see the fixings around the edge.

    A replacement engine for my Merc is £2k many years older than this battery, and considerably more work to replace. Thinking about it, someone needs to come out with a way to make this into a home battery because that’s vastly cheaper than what’s on offer!

    thepurist
    Full Member

    used to be designed more around ease of maintenance

    I’m guessing you didn’t own (and try to work on) an Alfa Romeo in the 80s.!

    johndoh
    Free Member

    I’m guessing you didn’t own (and try to work on) an Alfa Romeo in the 80s.!

    hah yes – a friend had an Arna back in the day (a joint thing with Alfa and Datsun IIRC). In-board disk brakes and a weird upside-down engine that made getting to the spark plugs almost impossible.

    B.A.Nana
    Free Member

    But it seems that many batteries are designed *not* to be easily replaced or upgraded.

    My ID3 had battery module 10 replaced, so I would assume that the VW MEB platform does have replaceable battery sections. possibly 10 or more. The only downside was it had to go to a main dealer in Leeds (rather than the local skipton one)

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    anyone buying an EV thinking in 10 years it’ll be worth much is not going to fair well i think, but that’s the same with ICE now

    Not always the case.

    1
    Kato
    Full Member

    Test drove a new Model 3 and was massively impressed.   Man maths sums reckon I’d save near on £150 a month on fuel costs, so off to look at a 2020 Dual Motor with the sport wheels this morning.   Monster depreciation has happened and it’s a lot of car for 24k

    1
    Flaperon
    Full Member

    a 2020 Dual Motor with the sport wheels this morning.

    Lease company gave me a purchase price of £20k on my 2021 Model 3 LR with enhanced autopilot, so £24k is a rip-off. You can pay Tesla £1000 to get the performance upgrade on a dual-motor, so unless you’re particularly tempted by giant wheels this is the easiest and cheapest way.

    Try to find a 2021 or newer if you can, as they have numerous improvements over the previous generation including the heat pump. The sweet spot would be a late 2022, as this gets the AMD Ryzen infotainment but keeps ultrasonic parking sensors.

    Kato
    Full Member

    Got the price wrong it’s 22k, it’s a LR with the optional sport wheels and grey paint.  Budget will stretch to a 21 car, but with 45k+ miles and I’d rather have the lower mileage as this one is 25k.  Late 22 cars are way out of my budget

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    molgrips
    Free Member

    I would much rather have a more modern car with significant upgraded features than a lower milage one. In ten years’ time the difference between a 120k car and a 140k car will be insignificant but you’ll have had the better features for all that time and still have them.

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