The demonised underclass

I did wonder about those statements of 3 generations of unemployed, but assumed it must be supported by facts.

Worth a read[/url]

Interesting assumption in the article

How long is ‘three generations’? Maybe sixty years,

He’s clearly not spent much time around where I grew up!

When IDS referred to personal observations he probably watched an episode of “Bread” on Gold and thought it was a documentary.

Politicians exaggerating or even inventing ‘facts’ to further their own agenda.

What a novel concept………..

Examples
Word Origin

noun
1.
the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time:
the postwar generation.
2.
the term of years, roughly 30 among human beings, accepted as the average period between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring.

The average age for first time mothers is about 30. But I would class a generation to be about 20 years.

The evil she bitch that my dad had the misfortune to marry certainly had a family of the work shy.
Her son always managed to have some sort of injury that only affected him between 9 and 5. His daughter had a kid at 16 and now has a council house . Never worked a day in her life.

Fascinating zippy, really is.

When I worked with HB claimants, I knew of families where parents and grandparents hadn’t had regular employment for years, and were unlikely to get it in the near future, but you never met families where no one had ever had a job as it’s portrayed.

Though from my experience, and MrsMC working in child protection, there are some families who could justifiably be demonised for a variety of reasons.

I’ve known people who have only just got into work at 40 because their benefits were being cut and tax topups are now better value, all self employed and all no doubt fiddling that.

there are some families who could justifiably be demonised for a variety of reasons.

Some families aren’t nice ? 🙁

Ernie – UK wide there’s about 6-7,000 under 16 pregnancies annually, about 25-30k under 18

Where I grew up it certianly used to be a passport to getting your own flat, and was openly discussed as such by a minority of girls at school as if it was a career option.

Its an interesting read, but anyone with a brain(excludes those reading right wing media) would see that if you de-industrialise areas such as Glasgow and Middlesborough with the brutality that was used in the 1980’s, then you will have pockets of unemployment.

Perhaps IDS is a futurologist. Rather than “claiming” three generations of families that have never worked, maybe he’s telling us of the times to come, and since we have done jack sh*t about it so far, and with no signs of us doing anything about it anytime in the near future, then we could have a few generations lost.

Ernie – UK wide there’s about 6-7,000 under 16 pregnancies annually

Really ? I’m stunned, with all the fuss papers such as the Daily Mail create I would have expected the figure to be really high.

I’ve known people who have only just got into work at 40 because their benefits were being cut and tax topups are now better value, all self employed and all no doubt fiddling that.

And I know people who were pushed down that line by their jobcenters in order to reduce unemployment figures and meet targets.

I’ve just checked Z-11 and apparently the problem is getting smaller !

Who would have thought it eh ?

As I say, I’m stunned !

Goverments encouraged the poor to breed with payments and housing when the rich needed workers , move on a few years and the rich move production abroad technology also kills of jobs the result lots ofe poor unemployed, not really thier fault,

How about we stop paying people to breed and reward the ones who dont?

If there are to be financial rewards for not having sex, can anyone recommend me an all round lightweight full susser. No budget constraints.

How about we stop paying people to breed

Spot on!! People bang on about living within your means and yet that seems to go out the window when it comes to those on benefits.

At the very least, child benefit should be capped at 1-2 children (assuming it isn’t already) and removed completely for those on high earnings.

Who would have thought it eh ?

You mean years of demonising teenage single mums, reducing benefits available to them, and stopping it from being a shortcut up the housing list is working?

I agree, shocking, isn’t it?

Goverments encouraged the poor to breed with payments and housing when the rich needed workers ,

Such absolute tosh and piffle in such a short sentence……….WELL DONE !

Obviously demonising single mums is a good thing in ninfan world…christ some people have ugly viewpoints.

Have a read of CHAVS, the demonisation of the working classes by Owen Jones, a great easy to read book, that shows how the press and media demonised certain elements of society, and as for people who havent worked i nominate Mrs windsors off spring eg queenies, a huge gang of scroungers living on state benefits for life.

You mean years of demonising teenage single mums, reducing benefits available to them, and stopping it from being a shortcut up the housing list is working?

I agree, shocking, isn’t it?

Spot on, Ninfan, as ever. Funny how many of the underclass also manage to smoke dope and fags on their meagre state benefits. 🙂

if you de-industrialise areas such as Glasgow and Middlesborough with the brutality that was used in the 1980’s, then you will have pockets of unemployment.

Statements like this wind me up like nothing else; I started my working life as an industrial temp in the 1980s and I was shocked and disillusioned at the attitudes I encountered in factories; there was a massive entitlement culture and resistance to modernisation from workers and management alike and the unions absolutely stank of resentment, intransigence and bitter envy. When I look at the pictures of derelict factories on 28dayslater and other Urbex sites I am amazed that Britain still has any manufacturing left at all, we certainly did our best to wreck our own manufacturing industry. I have no sympathy with the whining self-pitying lefties who blame politicians, an easy target, for their own downfall. Sadly their inability to take responsibility still infects Britain today.

Obviously demonising single mums is a good thing in ninfan world…christ some people have ugly viewpoints.

Didn’t you learn anything from the General Election? Your sort of hand wringing, bien pensant, liberal leftism isn’t exactly in tune with public opinion at the moment, thankfully.

Indeed, the “I’ll look after myself and **** everyone else” opinion of about 25% of the country has won through. Great isn’t it.

Selfish Britain for the 21st century 🙁

anagallis_arvensis – Member
Obviously demonising single mums is a good thing in ninfan world…christ some people have ugly viewpoints.

It’s the **** who abandon them who should be slammed.

If you want a broken society make sure that kids are raised in deprivation and poverty.

We should support single mothers to the best of our ability regardless. Their kids are part of our future.

If you want a broken society make sure that kids are raised in deprivation and poverty.

What do you mean if? We generated tens of thousands of them in the 80s and still have no idea how to fix the problem….

footflaps – Member
What do you mean if? We generated tens of thousands of them in the 80s and still have no idea how to fix the problem….

You want even more?

IDS should have just quoted his source as Tony Blair. Three generations who had never worked would seem a bit unlikely, I could imagine three generations who had spent considerable periods on the dole or who had claimed some form of benefits over their entire lives but not never worked

There are plenty of kids who live in broken households with parents who neither have a clue of give a flying fig. The only way to break the cycle of depravation and low esteem and aspiration is for the state to make up for the inadequate parenting. Sadly funding does not allow this. I know from my own area, there is rarely a “bad family” there are families that have lots of bad attitudes and education in them, but even these families produce great people if only the society was geared to support them

The Underclass ?

Jeremy Kyle….The Archers

Cheap Lager… Red Wine

Sponging off the tax payer..Politicians

Uneducated…Dilettante

50″ TV’s…..Mountain Bikes

We’re all just people trying to get along as best we can !

Statements like this wind me up like nothing else; I started my working life as an industrial temp in the 1980s and I was shocked and disillusioned at the attitudes I encountered in factories; there was a massive entitlement culture and resistance to modernisation from workers and management alike and the unions absolutely stank of resentment, intransigence and bitter envy.

‘fraid those attitudes still exist and fester still 🙄 However some of the current ideas being implemented by some of our new middle managers are old one being recycled ie they haven’t taken heed of or are not aware of the previous mistakes of their managers(history is repeating itself)
This years pay rise offer is 2% implemented from July ie 6mths @ the new rate before negotiations start again!
Any new starts in the company start on different contracts which include less holidays and several thousands of £££s less than the test of us!!!!!

ernie_lynch – Member
there are some families who could justifiably be demonised for a variety of reasons.
Some families aren’t nice ?

My daughter is a primary school teacher in a “deprived area” and can vouch for this 🙄

CHB – Member
There are plenty of kids who live in broken households with parents who neither have a clue of give a flying fig. The only way to break the cycle of depravation and low esteem and aspiration is for the state to make up for the inadequate parenting. Sadly funding does not allow this. I know from my own area, there is rarely a “bad family” there are families that have lots of bad attitudes and education in them, but even these families produce great people if only the society was geared to support them

MrsT agrees with this, she was a volunteer with the Scottish children’s panel for a number of years

Obviously demonising single mums is a good thing in ninfan world…christ some people have ugly viewpoints.

Go back and read what was said oh sanctimonious one…

We were talking about teenage single mums

In case you hadn’t heard, governments have been putting effort into this for some years, the reason being that (in the words of the ONS):

Why do Teenage Conceptions Matter?
It is widely understood that teenage pregnancy and early motherhood can be associated with poor educational achievement, poor physical and mental health, social isolation, poverty and related factors. There is also a growing recognition that socio-economic disadvantage can be both a cause and a consequence of teenage motherhood (Swann et al, 2003).

In England this led the previous Government to set a target to halve the teenage conception rate by 2010, when compared with 1998. Local authorities set ten year strategies in place, aiming to reduce the local rate between 40% and 60%. These local targets were to help underpin the national 50% reduction target.

So, which part of that would you like to disagree with from your Ivory tower? 😉

ninfan – Member
…We were talking about teenage single mums…

And we should be also talking about the other half of that equation, the scumbags who abandon their children and leave the state to take up the slack.

There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with teenage mums – 100 years ago it was not unusual. It’s the deprivation of being left holding the baby that is the problem.

ninfan – Member

You mean years of demonising teenage single mums, reducing benefits available to them, and stopping it from being a shortcut up the housing list is working?

That is the reason for the falling numbers, you know that for certain ? Because ?

If it is the case it’s very clear from the graph that the turn around and the sharp drop in numbers occurred under a Labour government. So we don’t need the Tories and IDS to tackle the ‘problem’, that’s patently obvious ….. is it not ?

So it’s a surprisingly small ‘problem’ which has been getting smaller for about the last 20 years, despite what the Daily Mail and frothing right-wing ranters like you claim.

Btw there has only been two women in my life who had a child at 16, one is a very close personal friend and the other was a former g/f who I was with for a couple of years or so. The close personal friend has been in paid employment most of her adult life, and the former g/f was in full time employment when I met her and carried on being in full time employment during the time I was with her. But you want to demonise them, and you think it’s good to demonise them. I prefer to demonise frothing right-wing ranters like you 🙂

Just would like to point out to the various Union bashers on this thread that virtually all your employment rights have come about due to unions fighting for them, it also amazes me that people have viewed union activity and attitudes historically as negative and anti business when I fact they were protecting their members interests (pay conditions etc)

Daily mail type propaganda says the unions destroyed our manufacturing industries yet Nissan (and many others) have some of their most successful plants in the UK using unionised labour.

Take away the working classes “work” and you remove dignity – the minimum wage, zero hours, no skills jobs create unmotivated human beings – 30 years ago at 21 years old I was earning £5 an hour as a skilled craftsman (double time on Sundays!) probably the equivalent of £20 an hour today how many 21 year olds on here make £40k a year at the moment. Oh and that was in the North East of England.

Governments were aware of the detrimental effects of high levels of (some) teenage pregnanices as outlined by the ONS and other non party political/partisan social studies and reports .Teenage pregnancies have been reducing because the Blair/ Labour government took active steps to try to reduce it through a range of strategies – better sex/relationship education,contraception advice, improving life+employment prospects,more access to higher education etc etc rather than the punitive measures beloved by the tabloid “Daily Mail” types.More of a carrot than stick approach.For all the justified criticism of the Blairite regime on many issues, these measures and others like Surestart were long term,required investment and were for the benefit of the underclass and eventually society as a whole-and seem to be working.

And the article linked to in the OP is fundamentally flawed in several respects,primarily neglecting to mention sickness related benefits.