Thatcher's died according to BBC

i thought sbob was spongebob too they both seem to share the same tabloid derrived misunderstanding of history

has Clegg said anything on the matter?

No. For all values of “the matter”.

some confused people on here !!– sbob/spongebob– poor wumming– hora– ditto—

“In the late 80’s when I was just starting work” – come on, you’re really 5 years old, surely?

Again, I’m not a Tory. I was too young to vote for her until later on and I didn’t. I also remember the Poll tax which I didn’t agree with at all.

It doesn’t stop you admiring the person though and for the task that was placed in her lap.

**** a woman in a dominated-mans world. The 70’s and 80’s – come on, what was the womans place in the work place? The sexism etc?

She also had very real physical danger to herself.

A peaceful settlement with Argentina? What that’d involve ‘joint custody wouldn’t it’. So someone invades and you then have to agree to share or worse?

Madness.

hora – Member

It is weird how the left cant see through Blair and Brown.

I don’t think there’s anyone in the country who hasn’t seen through them by now. But I must have glossed over the posts defending the glorious record of Nu Labour. But you’ve obviously read them all, so do carry on…..

As far as the state funeral/not a state funeral business. The important issue here is that its certainly costing the same as one. And we’re the ones paying. Which I strongly object too in the midst of this much trumpeted austerity. I expect we’ll see in St Paul’s (not a State Funeral, remember!) a collection of the great and the good aggressive tax avoiders, looking suitably solemn for the passing of their spiritual leader 🙄

I couldn’t agree more, Binners. Both parts.

One thing New labour did that I am impressed with is the smoking ban in pubs/buildings. Brave.

Good for you. Important policy that. Thanks for your contribution.

Tax avoiders?

I know you might not read current affairs preferring to stand outside protesting alot binners but you do realise a few MP’s were jailed/implicated recently in fiddling/claiming fraudulently.

Labour was mentioned.

Just what are you rambling on about?! It’s utterly incoherent. Are you drunk?

what is apparent, is that those who ‘lived/suffered’ through the thatcher regime have very strong memories of such, and those whom its an abstract subject, seem happy to dismiss/tarnish those experiences– or maybe its ideological– or just lack of class consciousness–or both….

Another random selection of words cobbled together to form something that’s like a sentence, but different

What’s your point caller? Is it about hospitals?

Rudeboy, don’t forget either that some of us here are old enough to have ‘lived/suffered’ through the regimes (Tory and Labour) that preceded Thatcher. The misery of that period also seems an abstract notion to some. It would be equally foolish to dismiss/tarnish those experiences though.

tmhnm– ahem, i can only remember back to 1962/3– but certainly was conscious from 1970 onwards regarding politics etc–so for me i have personal experiences to enhance/detract from the era….. i think my point was it was a very polarised era-and not wishy washy new labour that came after……

I appreciate your point rudebwoy (and you remember back further than me!), just wanted to widen it a bit! That whole period (of my youth) was very divisive, not helped by economic policies that were characterised by “stop-go.” The state of industrial relations (caused by both sides) hardly point to a less-divisive period than the one that followed. One of the points bought out in last night’s QT.

kimbers – Member

i thought sbob was spongebob too they both seem to share the same tabloid derrived misunderstanding of history

So are you in Rudebwoy’s camp?
Are you another that thinks we should have paid miners to do nothing, as the unions demanded?
It’s quite a famous Scargill speech you know, perhaps it’s you that is having trouble remembering history?

Of course, you may agree with Scargill, in which case I’d be happy for you to send me money in return for nothing. 💡

🙂

On the QT point. I think Charles Moore must definitely have been living in a different country to me during the 80’s, as I didn’t recognise a single element of the drivel he was spouting, at all

In the same way that Polly Toynbee was certainly living in some sort of alternative dimension to me during the Nu Labour years. As the Socialist Utopia she describes sounded absolutely brilliant!!! Wish I’d have been there instead

It probably looked all roses when viewed from Tuscany.

hora – Member

Tax avoiders?

I know you might not read current affairs preferring to stand outside protesting alot binners but you do realise a few MP’s were jailed/implicated recently in fiddling/claiming fraudulently.

Labour was mentioned.

The Labour Party are “guilty” of tax avoidance. When questioned I seem to remember they said it was “standard practise”.

Are you another that thinks we should have paid miners to do nothing, as the unions demanded?

To quote rik…..

I’ve told you a million times, do not exaggerate!

😀

I am a lefty and therefore no supporter of New Labour. With Blair in particular leading us into the Iraq war on a lie I believe the man should be in jail. although she showed some courage in the Brighton bombing Thatcher was only one among many people, emergency services, hotel staff etc. Her governments record throughout its term was consistent, imo they were nothing more than asset strippers. The effect of all the anti union legislation was to make it virtually impossible for workers to protect themselves against changes to contracts and conditions of employment. There’s a long list of examples of a government and a prime minister with a complete disregard for those they regarded as opposition or whose votes they didn’t need. Miners strike, dock workers, Hillsborough, poll tax, Gartcosh, etc. Isn’t it strange how Thatcher supported a trade union in communist Poland.? I strongly object to paying for her funeral.

Binners – mad how he could go from Rik to

binners – Member

I’ve told you a million times, do not exaggerate!

I was trying to be concise, what I should have said was that Scargill would rather have had miners do meaningless work of zero value, than accept redundancy.

Does that jog your memory?
Or are you another who sees Scargill as a hero? 😆

On the QT point. I think Charles Moore must definitely have been living in a different country to me during the 80’s, as I didn’t recognise a single element of the drivel he was spouting, at all

In the same way that Polly Toynbee was certainly living in some sort of alternative dimension to me during the Nu Labour years. As the Socialist Utopia she describes sounded absolutely brilliant!!! Wish I’d have been there instead

So which of them did you think was worse? I couldn’t quite decide.

Watching This Week afterwards, I thought Shirley Williams’ comments were interesting – she seemed to be strongly of the opinion that Thatcher was a significant figure and worthy of a state funeral because she was the first woman prime-minister (and for those wondering, when asked if it could have been her, she said she was too disorganised).

I’d love to be as uncomplicated as you, and see life through such a simplistic prism. It must be so much easier when everythings so clear cut and black and white. Like Richard Littlejohn, there’s not much room for nuance in your world is there?

So, to summarise, is this right….

Not liking Thatcher = huge Nu Labour groupee? Hero worshiper of Arthur Scargill? Possibly a communist?

That pretty much cover it?

So which of them did you think was worse? I couldn’t quite decide.

They balanced each other out; Menzies came across the best – middle ground opinions likely to make most sense I suppose

Hero worshiper of Arthur Scargill? Possibly a communist?

I’d suggest probably a fool myself, given the harm he did to the cause of the miners and the union movement (it is good to see him showing his true colours nowadays).

Menzies came across the best.

I was somewhat surprised how fawning he was – had to double check who he was, as I was thinking they already had Ken Clarke on as the Tory.

I don’t think either Thatcher or Scargill gave a shit about the very real lives they were wrecking as they stubbornly banged their heads together

Both viewing people as mere collateral damage to be sacrificed at the alter of their monstrous ego’s

I was involved with a miners’ support group during the strike. In coversation with the miners I was told in no uncertain manner that they backed the NUM 100%. I don’t think they’d have allowed Scargill to agree to any settlement that Thatcher would find acceptable.

This is brilliant, sums her up:

It’s probably helpful (though I’m sure unwelcome since it doesn’t fit the prevailing narrative of current times) that Thatcher’s view of Hillsborough was based on official police reports that have only recently surfaced and have been since shown to be untrue.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17238494

Given that that she wasn’t there, and the “view” and reports came from a number of people who were directly involved including the then Chief Constable of Merseyside, is it fair to make her 100% culpable for forming an opinion based on the above when the reports came from public servants who include a cohort that appear to have deliberately sought to mislead everyone on the role the police played?

She may have been misinforemed over Hillsborough, but she leapt onto the hatred of football fans bandwagon with delight.

Wsaswas – That’s absolutely superb!!! I absolutely love Posy Simmonds stuff too. Should be good!

Given that that she wasn’t there, and the “view” and reports came from a number of people who were directly involved including the then Chief Constable of Merseyside, Sir Kenneth Oxford, is it fair to make her 100% culpable for forming an opinion based on the above when the reports came from public servants who appear to have deliberately sought to mislead everyone on the role the police played?

It’s pretty much the same as the sexed up WMD report for Iraq. The civil servants created the reports required by their political masters.

Hora – that’d be the twenty-something student shackled with massive debts, who can’t get a job because the economy was crashed by bank speculators?

All Thatcherite policies.

Hora – that’d be the twenty-something student shackled with massive debts, who can’t get a job because the economy was crashed by bank speculators?

All Thatcherite policies.

So lets pretend Labour wasn’t in power for a decade then up until the crash.

Thatcher started it – Blair was as much a child of Thatcher as Cameron.