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Thatcher's died according to BBC
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JunkyardFree Member
They don’t spent it ever, then? Genuinely curious here, I’m not a tory apologist.
of course they do molly they are rich but they literally have no money in the bank , not one penny as they spend it all 😕
Of course they bank vast quantities of it – Seriously how would you spend it all? Bill gates has $67 billion for example
Imagine it was just $4 billion could you actually spend it – might be fun trying but really how could you ?molgripsFree Memberof course they do molly they are rich but they literally have no money in the bank , not one penny as they spend it all
They do tend to spend a fair amount of it though don’t they? Cars, houses etc.
Of course they bank vast quantities of it
Really? How much of Richie Rich’s money is going to be actual cash in an account?
rattrapFree MemberYou think because Bill Gates has a ‘personal fortune’ of 67 billion dollars he keeps it sitting in a bank account Junky?
do you really think thats how it works?
RustySpannerFull MemberThey don’t spent it ever, then? Genuinely curious here, I’m not a tory apologist.
Was taught this in college & every article on the subject I’ve read since supports it:
Basically, poorer people will spend – the rich tend to hoard.
TerryWristFree Memberinfestation – Member
Some people on here are sick. Why not just get on with your lifes instead of taking the piss out of an old woman who was very ill?
Have we decided what we’re doing with this handwringing, getting offended on other people’s behalf nonsense?
You wouldn’t see right-wingers getting their knickers in a twist over this, it’s PC gorn mad I tells ya.
JunkyardFree MemberSo what happens when they die?
well it is harder for a rich man to get into the kingdom of heaven than tpo pas a camel through the eye of a needle but hey lets keep religion out of this 😉
IanWFree Member..and what I have written three times but predictably you don’t see. Is that I dont believe its was the crews or the managers whom were the same then as they are now just with different haircuts.
The difference is the legislation, the playing field in which they operate.
teamhurtmoreFree MemberWhile I can understand the argument that Thatcher had a negative impact on (certain) segments of the less-well off, I think history tells us that this was by no means her intention ( that is too cyncial IMO). There were two central pillars to her philosophy: (1) that the role of government in UK economics and society has become too great/pervasive and (2) individuals should be given greater freedom and responsibilities to make their own choices. An upshot of this (highlighted in the documentaries last night) was her belief that government resources should be used more to target the suffering of those less well-off. We can make our own conclusions about whether this was achieved or not individually!
But IMO the analysis of the Thatcher legacy requires a thorough understanding of what proceeded her and what followed her. It is the classic thesis, antithesis, synthesis framework. Thatchers successes resulted from how she dealt with the excesses that characterised the previous decade/s under the likes of Wilson, Heath, and Callaghan that saw among other things – weak economic performance, the failure of government attempts to manage aggregate demand, devasting collapses in industrial relations, high inflation, balance of payments crises, IMF bailouts, failed income policies and 47% wage demands etc. Her failures were largely due to the fact that she (often) took each (required?) solution too far eg, Keynesian economics were replaced by overly strict monetarist approaches, privatisation and liberalisation was extended too far and in some cases the dangers of externalities were ignored, supply side reforms were not accompanied by policies to retrain work forces sufficiently, the battle for inflation was won at the expense of high and sustained unemployment etc.
But since then, many important lessons have been learned (if not completely). Keynesian and monetarist economics work better in tandem than in isolation (albeit that the current policy mix is unbalanced and not working), the private and public sectors can work together (although again not 100% successfully), inflationary objectives need to be considered with other economic goals (new BoE mandate) etc. Sadly the lesson that has not be learned is that if governments believe that they have a role in managing aggregate demand, then Keynes’ argument was that you (attempt to) run budget surpluses in the good times in order to finance deficits in the bad times. This lesson was ignored by Tory and most catastrophically by the last Labour government, thereby reducing our ability to respond to the current crisis. On top of that recent governments have failed to remember the importance of the balanced economies placing an over-reliance on financial services and the public sector. But that does not mean that we do not manufacture anything anymore.
So the Thatcher legacy? Thatcherism itself was largely a myth IMO. The follies of the past were replaced largely by a new extremes but with some successes as well. In time, a new synthesis was formed which is reflected in the current closeness of the main UK political parties. Of course, the challenges have moved on, as they always do, and the current consensus/thesis does not have the answers to the current problems. Let’s hope that this time, the reaction or antithesis is less extreme, but I doubt it personally as the political debate highlights that the real reasons for our current crises are not properly recognised or understood!
infestationFree Memberhave you swallowed a dictionary teamhurtmore that’s really boring.
grumFree MemberI doubt it personally as the political debate highlights that the real reasons for our current crises are not properly recognised or understood!
Except by you of course.
teamhurtmoreFree Memberyes, sorry! i was typing without looking how ridiculously long my ramblings had become. Apologies!
[Hi Norman Hunter! Missed the ball again. 😉 But please tell me how the current political and economic elites are making progress towards achieving sustainable growth?]
grumFree MemberHi Norman Hunter! Missed the ball again.
How impertinent of me. 😉
JunkyardFree Memberdont be stupid Grum
THM nowt wrong with long posts but it needs more typos 😉
PS all right wing folk want a smaller state and more self reliant folk – given the number on the dole she failed to achieve either and let to a generation
of dependency in certain areas.deviantFree MemberKeynes’ argument was that you (attempt to) run budget surpluses in the good times in order to finance deficits in the bad times.
This is key for me and it is sound advice for everybody not just governments.
My other half thinks i’m mad for keeping a decent savings account, it infuriates her that i drive around in a crappy car and wont spend the money on getting a better one…i explain that the account is our buffer against the realities of everyday life, when a stonking great bill comes through or when i had the bathroom done a few years ago i was able to pay for it from the savings without any interruption to our day to day lives.
When i have money left over i top the account up again.Governments seem to want to spend every penny they have and even when Blair/Brown were enjoying record tax recipts they didnt put anything away for a rainy day.
This is basic stuff, live within your means.
teamhurtmoreFree MemberThere’s the other leg gone! Appropriate era of football given the thread topic, I suppose.
And the answer…..?
(JY, I was actually embarrassed at the length. But I was bored with geography revision supervision and was playing on an iPad and got carried away – even more than normal 😉 )
Junkyard – Member
PS all right wing folk want a smaller state and more self reliant folkWhat about slightly left-wing libertarians?!? 😉
molgripsFree MemberThis is key for me and it is sound advice for everybody not just governments.
It’s a bit different for governments though.
chewkwFree MemberAs Margaret Thatcher sum up herself nicely in one word – Undefeated!
RIP Great Leader.
For those that are celebrating her passing well put it this way even enemy respects each other in death.
JunkyardFree MemberWhat about slightly left-wing libertarians?!?
**** em 😉
I think it all depends some folk just need the state to provide roads and police. some need it to provide health care as they were born with an illness and some need it to act as their parent and help them cope with life
TBH i find it an idealistic view that just wont work for all people. some wil lthrive and some will watse away at the margins as they need help
Take IDS and giving folk their own rent and monthly payments, I can see why he wants to empower them but the results wont be good as some folk will waste it and end up homelessI would say, given how many thatcher put on the dole and what she had to do to fund this means she failed on both counts tbh – spendiig and dependency both increased
LiferFree Memberinfestation – Member
have you swallowed a dictionary teamhurtmore that’s really boring.I found it quite interesting, and why is having a large vocabulary a bad thing?
rattrapFree MemberTake IDS and giving folk their own rent and monthly payments, I can see why he wants to empower them but the results wont be good as some folk will waste it and end up homeless
I think you raise a good point here, as in many ways its reflective upon one of the central tenets of the Thatcherite movement – that ultimately, wherever possible, people need to take some level of responsibility for themselves.
I’m sorry its a daily mail link, but I think its a fair one:
deadlydarcyFree Membersome folk will waste it and end up homeless
Well, obviously because the benefits culture has created a bunch of feckless losers hasn’t it? 😉
deadlydarcyFree Memberultimately, wherever possible, people need to take some level of responsibility for themselves.
And that the rich would be generous with their money. Which they weren’t. And aren’t. And never will be.
So…let’s chalk that down as another failure.
ononeorangeFull MemberI found it quite interesting, and why is having a large vocabulary a bad thing?
+1
rattrapFree MemberAnd that the rich would be generous with their money. Which they weren’t. And aren’t. And never will be.
Well, you’re better off than him, maybe you could send him some of your own money to help him pay his vodaphone bill?
teamhurtmoreFree MemberWhether they are generous or not, doesn’t matter since (some 😉 )of their earnings and wealth is taxed to fund government spending. Where would we be without tax revenues? It’s the same with profits, which seems to be a dirty word for some. Where does tax revenue come from, what funds corporate investment, what are the rewards for the risk taken by the providers of capital. As a government, we will now be looking for RBS and Lloyds to be profitable in the future!
JunkyardFree Memberwherever possible, people need to take some level of responsibility for themselves.
Yes but to think they can all take the same level of responsibility is to put ideology before reality as your link shows.
Did they really think someone wanted a 91 k phone bill or could afford to pay it – perhaps they should also take on board some corporate responsibility rather than blame customers
Where does tax revenue come from
Little people apparently
rattrapFree MemberNo presumption about it Darcy
Poor lads an unemployed security guard with no girlfriend and a 91k phone bill – surely this is the epitome of someone who needs help in modern Tory Britain.
teamhurtmoreFree Memberdeadlydarcy – Member
some
More like a small fraction.Junkyard – Member
Where does tax revenue come from
Little people apparentlyNot even one 😉 ?
😉
JunkyardFree MemberSorry ratty I thought you were trying to argue about how folk could be self reliant/responsible – is that really your best example of how people always act appropriately and wisely
Have you ever shot yourself with your gun ? that proves my point and now we have to face your hilarious attempts at humour nowLost me there THM-what is your point?
trailmonkeyFull MemberI think you raise a good point here, as in many ways its reflective upon one of the central tenets of the Thatcherite movement – that ultimately, wherever possible, people need to take some level of responsibility for themselves.
so people have to exercise responsibility but big business doesn’t ?
you’re right, that sounds like one of the very cornerstones of thatcherism.
chewkwFree Membertrailmonkey – Member
so people have to exercise responsibility but big business doesn’t ?
What big business are you referring to?
Aren’t they all managed by people?
teamhurtmoreFree MemberJY, I was assuming that there was at least a “touch” of humour in your quote about little people! maybe not?
deadlydarcyFree MemberNo presumption about it Darcy
Plenty ratty. You have no idea of my circumstances. Anyway, an unnecessary diversion.
rattrapFree MemberMark my words Darcy – its an inability to arses like him and make them take responsibility for themselves that runs the biggest risk of losing the Labour party the next election!
deadlydarcyFree MemberMark my words Darcy
😆
I think we both know that’s never likely to happen.
Now you’re onto Labour and the next election? Can’t you stick to the point?
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