Team Sky Kit.

Like say a brand new SS CX bike

Oi! I rode my pompino to work xc for several weeks before I made that purchase, always test the idea first (plus my sscx didn’t cost several grand)

I was not saying what I thought hence I said they rather than me.

I’m “wealthy” enough to be able to afford some black and gold grips for my mountain bike (they cost a tenner I think, superstar). They look awesome. They don’t add anything to my ability to ride the bike, they work just the same as any old grip. Does that mean you resent me as well?

Nah they are cheaper than mine 😉

Look at this way a mate of yours who does not cycle and has never really tried it wants to get into cycling – lets say MTB

do you
1. Advise him on a nice mid range priced Hardtail
2. Take him to Tesco- job done
3. Head off to Ibis and drop £5 k on an XTR bling thing

That is all I am saying.

I go 1 personally
if you want them to do 3 thats fine but dont insult me because I disagree and try and pretend it makes me jealous,pathetic or bitter.

I think they are saying that you should have reached a standard where you can use it andyou “earn” it by being good enough to justify it.

Is there an official table somewhere that gives the accepted range of skills/average speed/number of riding hours against bike value? Perhaps someone could produce some graphs?

As this is lets take up an extreme position and flog it to death can I just say

Where is TJ when you need him 😀

I assume that this approach should be adopted in all walks of life?

No point in going straight to the Balvenie Doublewood – the newcomer should be made to suffer a few years on Bells, then some Grouse and maybe some Glenfiddich first?

well I tried some cheap ass whisky and decided it tasted bloody awful, I’ve since sampled some expensive single malts and you know what, they still taste like piss.

I’m sure there’s a lesson to be learned there 😉

I dont drink whiskey so i doubt I could tell expensive from crap tbh but if you want to pay i will accept the challenge 😉

Look at this way a mate of yours who does not cycle and has never really tried it wants to get into cycling – lets say MTB

do you
1. Advise him on a nice mid range priced Hardtail
2. Take him to Tesco- job done
3. Head off to Ibis and drop £5 k on an XTR bling thing

That is all I am saying.

I go 1 personally
if you want them to do 3 thats fine but dont insult me because I disagree and try and pretend it makes me jealous,pathetic or bitter.

That’s an entirely different argument. We weren’t really talking about complete beginners, we were talking about 4th cats and such – riders who have started racing, and sure, I’d advise him, but if he was rich as and went and bought himself a super bike I wouldn’t think he’s a prick, I’d just go “wohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh carbon wheels….” and “hey man, have you got ceramic bearings?”.

try and pretend it makes me jealous,pathetic or bitter.

That’s just how it comes across.

A 6k Colnago still tastes like piss too.

Realman the original comment which started this tangent off I think was

I think people who just go straight to the top i.e the proverbial Colnago with Di2 without having turned a pedal are prats. I believe in a bit of humbleness, an apprenticeship if you like

sounds like he was talking about complete beginners.

grum 🙂

lol at druidh, thinking of situations that could apply…

‘Sir wants a vindaloo? I’m sorry, you’ve not had a Korma yet…..’

Bloke: May I buy you a drink?
Pretty lady: Hell no, you’ve not bought that munter over there one yet!

So there’s a limit to what a beginner can spend before you consider him a cock? What is that limit? Is it in any way related to what’s in his bank account? What if he buys 2nd hand and gets a great deal on a DA equipped colnago for a fraction of the normal price? Is he still a cock?

Yes but now he is a cheap cock which is worse 😛

Why the need to keep arguing the point my MTB examples indicates the view being put forward

Its free choice obviously and at either extreme it breaks down but i am sure you can see the point being made

Its free choice obviously and at either extreme it breaks down but i am sure you can see the point being made

That if someone pays more money than what you deem to be acceptable you consider them a cock.

Yeah, I think I can see it. I don’t think I can understand it.

You are not thick, why are you doing this?

Cock is you word repeated and not mine for example and you misrepresent my view yet again 🙄

Not sure why you cant get the point being made from what I have said and the examples given .
I cannot be bothered discussing what you, incorrectly, think i am saying and what you,incorrectly, think it means about jealous bitter me.

get a 6 k bike and go ride the canal towpaths its a wise bike purchase choice for that trail and a new user. Anyone who says different is pathetic, jealous and bitter

Happy now?

Ohh look another Rapha bashing thread 🙄

By law there ought to be one of these every month this year.. Mods?? 🙄

I think people who just go straight to the top i.e the proverbial Colnago with Di2 without having turned a pedal are prats. I believe in a bit of humbleness, an apprenticeship if you like

Funny this, but to some “going straight to the top” is actually quite humble for them..

All I get from this is “I’ve ridden more than you, trained more than you, you are a beginner and as such don’t deserve my respect”

Quite a lot of shite being spouted as per normal, and to be fair to oldgit he does rideout and knows a lot about thin wheels, and he’s been grumpy for sometime now so perhaps he’s having some kind of revaluation, dunno just comes across as this.

Rapha kit is the most comfortable kit I own and ride in, has been for a good number of years too. I like it for that. I like what they do with the films and marketing, but I choose to buy it based on my own choices.

wowsers.
I’d like to express my opinion on this thread, but I’m not sure I have enough experience of asshattery for my opinion to be recognised.

so why would the cheaper brands put up with that? Why don’t they go to a manufacturer that does a proper job without being paid extra to do it right first time?

Cos they’ve deliberately aimed themselves at the cheaper end of the market! There will always be a market for cheap kit and it matters a lot less if it falls apart after a few months so they can afford to pay less attention to the materials and Quality Control.

£5 on some gloves at Aldi, you won’t care if they get wrecked in <6 months. £120 on Rapha gloves and you’d be mighty pissed off if the stitching fell apart after a year. Same with any premium brand. If I buy a £10 Casio, I don’t care if it stops working a year later but if I buy a £5000 Rolex, I want it to be working perfectly in 10 years time.

£5 on some gloves at Aldi, you won’t care if they get wrecked in <6 months. £120 on Rapha gloves and you’d be mighty pissed off if the stitching fell apart after a year. Same with any premium brand. If I buy a £10 Casio, I don’t care if it stops working a year later but if I buy a £5000 Rolex, I want it to be working perfectly in 10 years time.

This sums things up for me….i dont mind paying good money for stuff i will either appreciate or will last…..

….but if i havent tried stuff at the lower end of the market how will i know what is good?….do i just take the word of the salesman?….do i trust magazine review?….do i ask friends?….

….or do i pick something mid-range and see how i get on with that first?….this has always seemed the most sensible approach for me and if i want better/more expensive then i’m then happy to feel my own way up the product range so to speak….although in my experience the mid-priced stuff in whatever field we are discussing is often plenty good enough for somebody like me who is not really an expert in any field….would i be any better/quicker round my local loop on a theoretical 6k Colnago than i am on my actual £600 Spech?….not likely, so i dont bother spending the extra and instead take my money elsewhere where i will appreciate it.

crazy-legs that’s not really what I was getting at, my point was why would aldi/whoever go to a manufacturer who said we’ll do it cheap and dirty or expensive and well? Why not go to an alternative manufacturer who specialises in cheap stuff and can probably do cheap more reliably than a pro outfit intentionally doing a bad job.

I’m just having difficulty seeing “we can do a half arsed or professional work, depending on what you pay us” as a viable business statement.

and I guess we better not start talking about the accuracy of a £10 casio vs a £5k rolex 😉

6k colnago? Where? Mine cost at least 10k FFS

Why not go to an alternative manufacturer who specialises in cheap stuff and can probably do cheap more reliably than a pro outfit intentionally doing a bad job.

I’m just having difficulty seeing “we can do a half arsed or professional work, depending on what you pay us” as a viable business statement.

It’s quite a bit more complex than that. But ultimately it all comes down to money.Someone mentioned a bog roll factory further back. Bog roll and garment manufacture are diametrically opposed in the manufacture industry – one is high set up cost and machinery intensive the other is highly labour intensive.

Machinists are not drones, some are vastly experienced and skilled whilst others are not or just starting. Like most folks in the life the more competent ones expect payment for the services commensurate with their ability. That costs money. For that you get someone who can work quickly and efficiently and is capable of more complex tasks repeated constantly whilst remaining in tolerance.

Some of the best design work is used to make average quality goods look great. Can you loose that raw edge without finishing; can you reduce that arm section to 3 panels rather than 8 and save 5 metres of stitching without loosing the fit or aesthetic; can you remove a dart without it hanging badly. Often you can buy your way out of issues by throwing more machining time at the product.

Some of the most expensive might have features of the manufacture process that you as a “rough and ready” consumer might not even discern – the edge that is double folded and piped; the fabric that has been cut on the grain line in such a way that is stretches just right but is a bit more wasteful; the pattern cutting process that ensures all panels for a garment come from a single bolt in case a small dye inconsistency between batches; a garment that uses a combination of natural and synthetic panels and attempts to colour match (very hard between different fabrics because of the different temperatures used) rather than fudging it with colour contrasting panels.

QA/QC is something that costs money – I think there is a belief amongst consumers that products are just right or wrong. The wider your tolerances the faster your work force can work. How much you care, will reflect how much you want the machinist to slow from their max and the slower they work the more expensive the unit cost becomes. The QA part of that equation is obviously most important bit where you attempt to design out as many cock ups as possible and that might be about making the machining simpler- not necessarily inferior.

It can be quite possible to have a medium sized factory unit specialise on a number of very different garment types and qualities quite happily and do neither badly. It’s just a case of getting what you paid for.

crazy-legs that’s not really what I was getting at, my point was why would aldi/whoever go to a manufacturer who said we’ll do it cheap and dirty or expensive and well? Why not go to an alternative manufacturer who specialises in cheap stuff and can probably do cheap more reliably than a pro outfit intentionally doing a bad job.

They’re not intentionally doing a bad job.
You have different levels of service, that’s all. Pay a company £x and they’ll do a job to a certain minimum standard. Pay them £y where y>x and they’ll do the same job to a higher standard.

Better materials, higher standard of workmanship, more time taken over it, more rigourous QC.
Buy a £100 suit, you’d expect it to be mass produced, cheap materials and a case of S/M/L/XL.
Buy a £1000 suit and you’d expect each part to be individually tailored to your requirements and the shop to spend considerably longer in fitting it to you.

Back to bikes, it’s not uncommon for one manufacturer to be supplying several brands via various different production rows.

I dont have much of an opinion on that kit (although I doubt it took a long time to come up with) but **** me I found two consecutive posts by RealMan funny 😮

I like Rapha socks and my rain jacket is awesome – and has special pink signalling bits to attract the attention of young chaps on the train and tube. Hopefully this makes me a bad person in the eyes of the kind of miserable old sods who give roadies a bad name…

The fact that Nalini make the kit for Rapha sponsored Sky team is a joke. A triumph of marketing in my eyes – fair enough Rapha are funding Team Sky just like QuickStep sponsor a team (I’m pretty certain Boonen doesn’t have cheap laminate in his living room). But for a cycling clothing ‘brander’ (I’m not going to use the term manufacturer) to sponsor a team but their kit not be good enough to race in is a joke considering the image Rapha portray (and charge for).

Bit of an odd statement considering there is no rapha factory or fabric mill and they tend to use the best that’s available to them when picking manufacturers. (Nalini probably manufacture the Rapha team kit and the synthetic lightweight jerseys.)
What would change your mind? Simon Mottram getting the sewing machine out after having knitted his own pubic hair/merino wonder fabric?

As for a Joke? I know who is having the last laugh. 🙄

It’s on the Rapha site now.

£140 for the normal ss jersey
http://www.rapha.cc/team-sky-pro-jersey

(and I thought the Adidas stuff was about double what it was worth)

Unsurprisingly, the Rapha site’s gone down 🙂

There’s talk of a £40 supporters jersey, but as the site’s down I can’t see it.

That shot makes it look better than the original publicity shots IMO. £140 for SS jersey though… you’re alright!

For 2013 Yellow aren’t importing the Dogma in Sky colours (more fool them I say), so the real fanbois won’t be able to get the full look.

Bit of an odd statement considering there is no rapha factory or fabric mill and they tend to use the best that’s available to them when picking manufacturers. (Nalini probably manufacture the Rapha team kit and the synthetic lightweight jerseys.)
What would change your mind? Simon Mottram getting the sewing machine out after having knitted his own pubic hair/merino wonder fabric?

I don’t think its odd at all. A kit company that prides itself on it’s image and fine craftsmanship sponsoring a team who will wear kit not provided by themselves. The point is that Rapha ‘make’ high end expensive race kit so you’d expect the team they sponsor to use it. I didn’t know Rapha don’t source their own materials/manufacturing, which just makes them even more pointless IN MY OPINION..

Similar to any bike company who sponsor teams then have a batch of frames made by another builder with their name on it. I’m not talking about Merida/Giant who make frames for loads of people, but companies like Neil Pryde who use re branded Cervelos.

For 2013 Yellow aren’t importing the Dogma in Sky colours (more fool them I say), so the real fanbois won’t be able to get the full look

Seriously? That’s up there with KTM refusing to let Ewan McGregor have a bike for Long Way Round…

There’s a replica jersey for £75 as well for those that don’t want to pay for the Pro version.
http://www.rapha.cc/team-sky-replica-short-sleeve-jersey
Having actually bought some of there kit I’ve been more than pleased with it. I’ve had my classic jersey for nearly 3 years now and it looks and fits virtually the same as the day that I bought it. I can’t say that for other tops I’ve had which have all faded or suffered from pulls or holes. I’m not sure if I would buy a replica team kit but don’t mind paying for Rapha stuff as in my experience it fits and lasts better for me.

It’s a rubbish colour scheme from a road safety viewpoint.

I have quite a few bits of rapha kit but I would never buy repli a kit. I know in design terms rapha were limited to using blue and black but the design isn’t exactly ground breaking.

The challenge in cycling, it doesn’t matter whether you traverse mountains or roll on the road, is to look not quite so bad as the next rider. To actually look good would be up there with inter-galactic space travel in terms of difficulty.

And I’ve seen a lot worse than that Sky kit.

Seriously? That’s up there with KTM refusing to let Ewan McGregor have a bike for Long Way Round…

I was surprised. The only Dogma complete bikes are fitted with Super Record EPS, various wheels in myriad colours, none of which is a Team Sky replica. Not sure if it’s available frame only in Sky colours, but the ubiquitous Di2, Dura Ace wheel equipped model is no more.

Not sure if it’s available frame only in Sky colours, but the ubiquitous Di2, Dura Ace wheel equipped model is no more

Christ there’s going to be a riot in Richmond Park if that’s the case. All they need to do now is stop BC skin suits being made available in XXL and we’ll have all out war.

I still don’t think I’ve ever disliked a road bike as much as I dislike that Dogma…

I would have one (with Shimano), although to be honest I look at that alongside (say) the Madone 7-series and it looks a bit of a turkey! Being heavier than most company’s aero frames, whilst less aero than many ‘lightweight’ frames isn’t a stunning set of credentials.

I do like the look of them though I must say. Although the Prince was nicer.

Edit: not even in Sky colours in the Pinarello website, although they do make more groupset options. Shame, it was a nice looking colour scheme. Very odd as well.

I watched ‘The Road Uphill’ the other night (which sounds like a gay porno – its not) and it has to be said, the Schleck brothers Madones look awesome. Other than that I’d have Boonens Spec

This is rank

this is nice

and this is stunning

Agreed, they look awesome, but so they should – they’re £9000, not exactly ‘the cheap option’.

That said, the 5-series looks the same and costs a whole chunk less.