STW 2014/15 Rugby Thread

Tom Croft called up. Suspect this is to help shore up the lineout as well (and he works well with Youngs).
I think Youngs currently has better line-out statistics than kiwi biter and the bath hooker.
Anyway, by the end of the tournament we are going to have Burrell and Burgess in the centres with ford popping them into space. I think that’ll work OK and even though the back 3 won’t get and ball, that’s the same as it’s been with no penetration from the centres as well.

I think Kruiz has more presence and go forward that he’s being given credit for in here, Attwood has a bit of pace about him as well.

So the elephant in the room; Sam Burgess – is he really THAT good? Can a player be so far head an shoulders about the rest in so little time, and will he make a difference to the England set up? Or is this all here worship and media hype? 8)

I’ve not seen anything of him (in Union) that makes me think he’s a wonder player, but that in no way makes me think he won’t be in the team by the end of the 6 nations. It’s going to happen as sure as the sun will set tonight.

Happy to stand corrected, but he appears to be a bash merchant with reasonable hands? That’s not uncommon in Union!

I think Burgess is there simply so Lancaster can have a look at him first hand and get to see how he works. He has masses of potential but still looks very much like someone learning the game. I imagine Lancaster will love him though, according to those in the Bath camp he’s honest, incredibly hardworking and has a real willingness to learn. Ex-colleagues in league say he’s just a great person to have in camp and to be around as well, which is consistant with Lancaster’s philosophy and mantra.

There was a great documentary that Fox Sports did on him, its on youtube, called Slammin’ Sam. Obviously it’s biased towards him but it gives a pretty good indicator as to the kind of person he is. That, coupled with his freakish athletic ability means he could be a real handful once he gets to grips with the game fully.

At the moment though I think its definitely hype. There are better English qualified centres at almost every club in the AP. But he looks to be catching up fast!

Although currently isn’t there only 12T and JJ that are fully fit centres in the EPS after the weekend? So we may be seeing him sooner than we thought!

Watched a bit of the Wales training session last night.

Biggar dropped a high ball, but 1/2p was banging kicks through the posts to Jenks with consumate ease.

Can I ask a random question.. Something that has bugged me for a while..

Given that attacking mauls are so difficult to stop and well drilled teams (including my own, Sale) often use it to such devastating affect why are they almost always allowed to form?
I am no expert obviously but I know that by not engaging the attacking team any players in front of the ball carrier are offside allowing the defending team to run around and tackle if they want to, or gaining a penalty. Why is this tactic seldom used???

Like this

Italy not engaging!

he’s honest, incredibly hardworking and has a real willingness to learn. Ex-colleagues in league say he’s just a great person to have in camp and to be around as well

That’s pretty much what people said about Andy Farrell when he was vying for the England 12 shirt and he turned out……rubbish.

Farrell and Barritt supposedly out of the Wales game according to the London Evening Standard.

Bad news for Wales.

The good news for Wales is that this “opens the door for Billy Twelvetrees….”

Who will presumably hold the same door open for Jamie Roberts. 😉

Can I ask a random question.. Something that has bugged me for a while..

Given that attacking mauls are so difficult to stop and well drilled teams (including my own, Sale) often use it to such devastating affect why are they almost always allowed to form?
I am no expert obviously but I know that by not engaging the attacking team any players in front of the ball carrier are offside allowing the defending team to run around and tackle if they want to, or gaining a penalty. Why is this tactic seldom used???

some refs don’t seem to like it, more of a problem IMO is the illegal forming of the maul with players coming in ahead of the ball carrier

A much more recent example

Saracens vs Bath

Farrell and Barritt supposedly out of the Wales game according to the London Evening Standard.

Bad news for Wales.

The good news for Wales is that this “opens the door for Billy Twelvetrees….”

Who will presumably hold the same door open for Jamie Roberts.

Gulp!

I’d go Burrell and Eastmond.

That’s pretty much what people said about Andy Farrell when he was vying for the England 12 shirt and he turned out……rubbish.

Farrell was 31 when he started in union and had recently suffered a raft of injuries and a fairly major car crash which injured his back I believe. Burgess is in his prime, regarded as one of the best league players in the world and with time to learn. Completely different state of affairs.

Like I said, whether he’s a success or not is yet to be seen. I personally believe he’s left it too late for the WC. But, if he’s prepared to stick around after that he has the potential to be a player in the mould of Roberts. If he’d come a year earlier I don’t think we’d be in this situation of panic now Tuilagi’s injured.

Completely different state of affairs.

I agree. It is. The rest of what you say is also accurate.

However, the point was that all that eulogising about Burgess was exactly the same as what was said about Farrell. That didn’t mean he was a great union player and talking up Burgess doesn’t mean he’ll be great either.

I’m a huge fan of Slammin’ Sam – as a person and as a RL player. I just have plenty of doubts as to whether he can make the transition successfully.

Jon Callard thinks Burgess has 3 world cups in him 😯

Talking of Sam, isn’t it the Main Man’s 50th cap against England?

It’s all very well everyone having a go at “over lap” Twelvetrees but after this weekend that is twice recently “flat footed” Burrell has been done on the outside. 😆

Callard thinks Burgess has 3 world cups in him

Well he’s got one RL world cup under his belt. Does that count as one?

that is twice recently “flat footed” Burrell has been done on the outsid

Yeah Burrell didn’t look too clever against Racing Metro did he? 🙁

So Farrell out for 6N with a

high-grade medial ligament strain

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31002380

And it’s very wrong of me to be pleased.

I wish the bloke no ill will whatsoever, but I’m pleased that the coaches are going to have to try use Ford and hopefully chippy. Maybe then, a slightly less creative centre could work!

It might focus farrell on his game a lot more time off with players pushing for his spot. I hope Ford’s performance is good enough for a permanent spot in September he looks like a more switched on rugby brain than farrell.

I think you englishers are being a bit harsh on Farrell. Starting Ford is a gamble, could be great or could struggle. Mind you if Samson isnt fit Wales will lose.

Farrell has missed so many tackles in defence at crucial moments in games. Time Out will do him good.

Ford has been better than Farrell in every age group they’ve played in. He’s a better runner, distributed and kicker from hand. Farrell is a good place kicker and can be a good tackler (when he’s in the right place and not getting involved in niggle off the ball). I know which one I’d prefer to have in my team…

Farrel does what is needed for an international 10. He is pretty solid in the tackle, kicks territory pretty well and his place kicking is up to scratch. International rugby is (sadly?) often more about being solid than spectacular when winning margins are small. Ford is the more exciting option but could equally be a bit of a liability at this level. Ford’s place kicking stats aren’t up to much either are they? The bigger issue is what happens if Ford gets broken? Not a lot on international game time for the 10’s vying for a place in the team…

The bigger issue is what happens if Ford gets broken? Not a lot on international game time for the 10’s vying for a place in the team…

We’ll find out if Cipriani really has matured.

Annoying to see the age old question about England centres again. Just when we thought we had 3 or 4 decent ones to choose from, injuries and poor form raise there head. The only two playing consistently well are JJ & Eastmond, but are they World Cup level? No I don’t think so. Lancaster may test them & Cips vs Italy or Scotland perhaps.

I can’t help thinking that Fridays game will be more forward orienatated than usual. I’d like Burrel to score just to annoy AA 😉 but as usual our 3/4 appears afflicted.

My prediction; England 19 (1 try 4 pens) Wales 16 (1 try 3 pens).

Farrel does what is needed for an international 10. He is pretty solid in the tackle, kicks territory pretty well and his place kicking is up to scratch. International rugby is (sadly?) often more about being solid than spectacular when winning margins are small.

I think that that’s what as an England supporter, I’m used to watching, but it’s not what a really good fly half should be doing. There’s that little thing about being able to spot the right option, and this sometimes involves passing the ball to a player in space, or spotting a developing overlap.

Something that I read about Chris Ashton. He found playing with Flood fantastic because Flood played flat and was happy to pass the ball to a player coming from deep. It worked for the pair of them. As soon as Farrell came along, that type of ball dried up completely so Ashton was of no more use. I’m no fan of Ashton, but there’s something wrong if your best finisher simply stops getting any kind of ball…

I’d have thought that Lancaster first choice midfield v Wales was going to be Ford, Farrell, barritt. Two most experienced defenders he trusted and an extra kicker / playmaker to manage the game and keep the ball where he wants it. Not flashy or exciting but sensible to try to negate Wales backs by avoiding them as much as possible. Real back to square 1 for England’s plans now.

TB, as someone who used to love watching the French attack off deep 3/4 lines in my youth and the Irish more recently, I get dismayed at England’s inability to take the ball at pace. Gain line desperation gone too far? The downside of total rugby was having hookers playing at 13!! It’s the RU equivalent of Fallaini ? – waste of time and space in midfield, just slowing things down and being dirty.

Still looking forward to 6N. The draw had already made it wide open – in terms of who has home advantage, when – let’s see who makes the flying start. I enjoy the fact that (almost) any team could win.

Frustrating that England don’t have a RWC team to blood properly though!

Nicky Thomas gone from Ospreys to Gloucester, big loss to the welsh game, he’s a real prospect

Geoff Parling, Brad Barritt, Tom Wood and Kyle Eastmond will miss the Cardiff game

so say the beeb

Farrell was worth his big chance early in his career but he has not progressed. Judged at international standard his goal kicking is adequate, his positional kicking is terrible, his passing/game management modest. In the two head to head games I saw (H-Cup Semi 2013 and Final 2014) an aging JW humiliated him, the gulf in standard was enormous. England have done themselves a disservice by not bringing in Ford for more game time sooner. I don’t like to see people get injured (especially knee injuries I winced when I saw it) but his injury has forced Lancaster to make the changes he should have made a while ago.

Nicky Thomas gone from Ospreys to Gloucester, big loss to the welsh game, he’s a real prospect

😀 yep great news for the Cherry & Whites

Love it 😀

Hahaa what a monumental **** he is!!

Fine player wendyball antics aside though.

England injuries;
Cole
Launchbury
Lawes
Parling
Slater
Wood
Morgan
Farrell
Burrell
Eastmond
Barritt
Tuilagi
Foden
A couple of front rows and that would be a decent team!

England can still field a pretty good pack, but a starting lock will only have one cap, and the bench lock; 0.
The only two remaining centres are twelvetrees who is horribly out of form (and not that good when he’s at his best) and Joseph who has not played for england for 2 years.
I’m hoping it will be competitive but a sound thrashing wouldn’t be a surprise either. We will not be seeing expansive rugby in this game, well not from England anyway!

Well, we’ll see how Wales get on vs our 2nd’s.

Excuses coming in early Kryton 🙄

Get the excuses in nice and early!

😉

Beaten to it!

Still valid Captain 😆

Get the excuses in nice and early!

The fact is; Wales are favorites. England don’t really need an excuse if they lose.