Sir! Keir! Starmer!

Why is it always always always about the class war in this country?

Like the War on Drugs – nobody wins.

Why is it always always always about the class war in this country?

I guess because the those at the top wage that war on those at the bottom. What are those at the bottom supposed to do? Fight their corner or surrender and live in servitude? None of the benefits working people have (weekends, holiday pay, health and safety, maximum hours, protection from being fired) were handed to them on a plate by the bosses. They were won through organisation and sacrifice. It’s not class war, it’s working people standing up for themselves.

nobody wins

The upper classes have been winning for millennia.

Why is it always always always about the class war in this country?

It seems to be more about how many crumbs are dispensed from the top table.

Why is it always always always about the class war in this country?

It’s apparent in what’s happening now. The Tory government knows full-well that it’s not safe to be piling on to tube trains and buses to go to work. But it’s the lower orders who will be doing that, so it doesn’t really matter. They literally couldn’t care less.

They’ll be safely isolated in their big houses with their Waitrose deliveries, at no risk at all. You won’t be seeing any of them anywhere near public transport.

If we had a labour government I doubt that the line at this point would be ‘get back to work, you plebs!’

‘get back to work, you plebs!’

‘…and trust the common sense of your employers to keep you and your family safe.’

Seriously? Nothing there about gender, race, sexuality, intelligence, disability etc?

The entire system and chance of thriving here is based upon where you grew up and what your parents did for a living? (and only if you can prove your bona fides – none of this born on a council estate and went to Oxford class treachery)

I am not entirely serious of course, but I do find your interpretation simplistic.

Seriously? Nothing there about gender, race, sexuality, intelligence, disability etc?

Your propensity to be shat upon from above is about more than where you grew up and who your parents were. The entire point is that class war is not something perpetrated from the bottom by unruly plebs and greedy workers. Class war exists because it’s perpetrated by those at the top. To quote Michael Foot:

“We are not here in this world to find elegant solutions, pregnant with initiative, or to serve the ways and modes of profitable progress. No, we are here to provide for all those who are weaker and hungrier, more battered and crippled than ourselves. That is our only certain good and great purpose on earth, and if you ask me about those insoluble economic problems that may arise if the top is deprived of their initiative, I would answer ‘To hell with them.’ The top is greedy and mean and will always find a way to take care of themselves. They always do.”

Looking at it another way, I’ve come across very few working class people who resent or are embarrassed about others or themselves breaking out of their working class roots (I know I don’t), but there are plenty in the upper and middle classes who resent working people intruding on their lofty and entitled positions.

As predicted the tories have started the attack on Starmer as the peados friend by tweeting a neo nazi doctored clip of him and then refusing to apologise.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/14/labour-urges-tory-mps-to-admit-keir-starmer-video-was-doctored

They really are very worried, aren’t they.

Good.

The fact that Dorries is involved is all you need to know.

Not only is she as thick as concrete reinforced pigshit, but she is also as close as you can get to a real life witch nowadays.

She rivals Priti Patel for ‘who has the biggest, blackest void where there heart should be’ competition within the Tories.

Also attacking QC who has got his shit together by libelling him is extremely foolhardy, surely.

They really are very worried, aren’t they.

Probably. But while it doesn’t take a genius to dig a bit deeper to what check what nonsense it is…its out there muddying the waters, which is of course the plan. Rinse and repeat just like the last four years.

Another tory MP who also tweeted this has subsequently deleted her twitter account.

It seems that some are keen to paint the left as a monolithic entity,

Yes, that’s what the right do…along with hardcore corbyn supporters.

Looking at it another way, I’ve come across very few working class people who resent or are embarrassed about others or themselves breaking out of their working class roots (I know I don’t), but there are plenty in the upper and middle classes who resent working people intruding on their lofty and entitled positions.

I note you carefully avoid saying “you know” upper and middle, just that “there are” some.

I think you might need to show your working out.

I know plenty of council estate people who thought that doing well at school and trying to get further education was ‘poncy’ and ‘a bit gay’

There are dix of all kinds in this world; whether silver spooners or bottom dwelling scumbags.

I know plenty of council estate people who thought that doing well at school and trying to get further education was ‘poncy’ and ‘a bit gay’

There was a sizeable minority at my school like that. As said, there be knobbers in all walks of life.

Look at the stick footballers get. Working class kids earning loads and lots of em black. Any motor racing drivers get similar stick? Only one and…

I know plenty of council estate people who thought that doing well at school and trying to get further education was ‘poncy’ and ‘a bit gay’

There are dix of all kinds in this world; whether silver spooners or bottom dwelling scumbags.

Unfortunately they know no better, they have no life examples to show them otherwise, and when they do learn the truth it will be too late for them, their life will be set on a path it is very hard to divert from.

However the upper class bullingdon bullies are equally scummy, get away with it and inflict pain on the masses throughout their lives. But they always have a opportunity, and they always have choice, they just choose to be ****.

Why is it always always always about the class war in this country?

Open your eyes and you’ll see it’s not.

It’s been about all Brexit since Cameron really.
And that’s been labour’s unsolvable problem.
Didn’t matter who lead them, or what the policy was, their voters were split between the two camps. Real single issue politics strong enough to change allegiances. Last election was unwinnable due to simple maths.

For Starmer, that’s a problem that’s not gone away.
He’s looking good whilst cross examining an idiot who’s made the biggest balls up in modern politics.
But my Nan could do that.
His real test will come in balancing winning back the northern Brexit labour vote, trying to tempt some Scottish vote back, and getting some swing from moderate Tories. Not so easy.
But for now, he’s winning the argument.

It’s been about all Brexit since Cameron really

His real test will come in balancing winning back the northern Brexit labour vote, trying to tempt some Scottish vote back, and getting some swing from moderate Tories. Not so easy.

I was pleased to see this:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/keir-starmer-rejects-brexit-extension-as-talks-get-off-to-a-slow-start-fmj5nqndd

Starmer was a clear remainer, but happy to see he’s not falling into the trap of calling for extension/rejoin whatever which the Tories can then use as a stick to bash him/Labour.

Keep the Brexit mess owned by the Tories. Will this do damage to the country? I think so yes. But there is no alternative now:

Didn’t matter who lead them, or what the policy was, their voters were split between the two camps

Exactly, those ex-Labour voters won’t be won back with more “stop Brexit” talk. But they can be won back after the Tories make a mess of something that is inevitably going to be a destructive mess.

This has however cheered me up – maybe Nadine and her chums will be a little more discerning about what they retweet in future (long shot I know)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52653609

Mad Nad – living down to her sobriquet.

A great response to to the twitter video

Sir Keir said he was satisfied with the actions taken by the party and the MPs, who have deleted the tweets.

“There are more important things in the world to concentrate on than a doctored video of me,” he added.

Acting again like a grown up to expose the Tory MP’s as the stupid halfwits they clearly are. Far more cutting than overblown outrage.

avdave2
Member

Acting again like a grown up to expose the Tory MP’s as the stupid halfwits they clearly are. Far more cutting than overblown outrage.

What’s especially nice is that you can have it both ways- Starmer can take the high ground, while individual MPs can put the boot in with “are you not supposed to be busy dealing with a national crisis?”

He’s annoying the right people.

Since becoming Labour leader, Starmer has so far failed to put any real pressure on Johnson over the coronavirus crisis. But Johnson is only getting an easy ride from Starmer because Starmer is getting an easy ride from the left, argues @davidwearing https://t.co/B9rHysLMKD

— Novara Media (@novaramedia) May 14, 2020

Bodes well for having an effective opposition after too many years of cranks, tankies and cosplay commies.

+1 for both avdave and northwind

That novara link – yet more bollocks from ash sarkar’s crew.

It’s bonkers, isn’t it? He’s skewering Johnson and that’s their response?

Fringe idealogues whose time and platform have gone.
It’s like a dog barking at the moon.
The tories also have their idealogues; allison pearson of the torygraph springs to mind immediately for her distorted and irrational view of johnson.

His real test will come in balancing winning back the northern Brexit labour vote,

Some of that will take care of itself, particularly when the US trade talks news that isn’t currently being shall we say “buried” by current events gets out.

Taking back control to 51st state.

It’s bonkers, isn’t it? He’s skewering Johnson and that’s their response?

That depends on how much value you assign to winning at PMQs.

On the BBC News site, there is:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52670086

It exposes a government run by a tiny inner circle and a mostly excluded cabinet. Has this little nugget in there too:

The emergence of an opposition leader who a Conservative source joked was “designed for this moment”, creates more challenge too.

ransos – PMQs, at present, provides a very useful platform to expose johnson & co. In addition, it’s getting media coverage.
Starmer – and wider labour party – needs to be seen to be supportive of gov covid-19 policy at present but also challenging and holding them to account.
That is exactly what he is doing.
It also allows the public to make a direct comparison between Starmer and johnson.
In current circumstances, ‘winning’ at PMQs has considerable value.

ransos – PMQs, at present, provides a very useful platform to expose johnson & co. In addition, it’s getting media coverage.

PMQs always gets media coverage, and as I’ve said before, William Hague used to outperform Blair with regularity. I understand that people are excited by their man winning at a specific contest, but it’s not at all clear this leads to electoral success.

I understand that people are excited by their man winning at a specific contest, but it’s not at all clear this leads to electoral success.

Not winning at PMQs didn’t help Corbyn though !

Fwiw Starner is obviously very smart & an excellent debater as shaddiw Brexit sec he routinely dismantled whoever was put up against him, Give & Raab were memorable , didn’t he also do over Johnson

That said the fact is a lot of people don’t like a smarty pants , including many Brexit supporting ex labour voters

So humiliating Johnson at PMQs not enough, now matter how nice it is to see.

I think not backing an extension is a gamble but at this point not much to lose, if the Tories are mad enough to push for a no deal crash out in December he probably can’t stop them anyway & they will own that mess, as well as the backlash if they see sense & ask for one

Not winning at PMQs didn’t help Corbyn though !

I think that proves my point!

Starmer has a huge battle to get Labour back into power, no argument there.

All things consisted though, he is the person for the job at this stage for sure.

This is the start of a bloody long journey. With the virus,Brexit, economic turmoil, health crisis all happening and will continue to happen along with goodness knows what else comes along.

A good start for Starmer and I’m happy with the direction and handling so far.

As a Labour voter it’s the “happiest” I’ve felt for a good while.

ransos, I’m well aware that PMQs always gets media coverage but thanks for the reminder.
It’s now being covered more widely and viewed/listened to by many more people than (ever) before so Starmer’s skewering of johnson is now reaching a wider audience.
Comparisons with Hague v Blair are irrelevant; their exchanges were verbal jousting.
We are now involved in the biggest national health, mental health and economic crisis this country has seen since, at least, WW2.
With that in mind it’s appropriate for the opposition leader to support the gov’s general approach but/and challenge where appropriate and hold johnson to account.
It’s clear that Starmer is perfectly capable of that, at the very least.
We will only know about electoral success when an election takes place.

I don’t think he has a huge battle. Ultimately he’s a guy who’s competent, level headed and seems decent to boot. A combination in surprisingly short supply in parliament. He’s exactly what the country needs right now, but will also still need in 3 years time if we make it that far with current PM. As quick as Bojo got the votes he’ll lose them again. Im going to stick my neck out here and say that he’s the next PM with at least 3 terms in him.

ransos, I’m well aware that PMQs always gets media coverage but thanks for the reminder.
It’s now being covered more widely and viewed/listened to by many more people than (ever) before so Starmer’s skewering of johnson is now reaching a wider audience.

I assume that you have the figures to confirm this?

We will only know about electoral success when an election takes place.

Which is why your evident excitement counts for very little.

Justin Webb fairly neatly and calmly destroying Brandon Lewis on R4 right now.

He’s been reduced to saying “I don’t agree with that” before every sentence and then desperately avoiding justifying the assertion….because he can’t.

Bohnsons’s media punch bags just keep getting trotted out and taken off at the knees whilst he hides in his metaphorical fridge. Note that Raaaaaaab has now also been pulled back off of the frontline. Being protected (shielded even) from the pandemic of Joris Bohnson’s inept leadership?