Scottish independence- where do you stand?

That would be awesome. Everything North of Birmingham please!

I can’t imagine Scotland being remotely interested in sharing their lovely oil wealth with the Saes. After all, this is all about making ourselves better off.

I can’t imagine Scotland being remotely interested in sharing their lovely oil wealth with the Saes.

This.

Why would they want to add a great deal of low GDP producing land to their utopia? This has been at the heart of their argument for years, Scotland supports the nasty English with all their lovely oil.

There’s a good article about the possible effects on the North of England here: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/10/independent-scotland-northern-england

The idea of Glasgow and Edinburgh forming an economic zone with the major northern cities to counter London is an interesting one.

Conversely i welcome Scots independence because i think it would deliver a kick in the pants to the British Left. No longer would they be able to rely on Labour voting areas without doing much for them, they would be forced to interact more closely with the electorate and move leftwards to make themselves a real alternative.
Another good reason for the Scots to go it alone.

I can’t imagine Scotland being remotely interested in sharing their lovely oil wealth with the Saes. After all, this is all about making ourselves better off.

Not for me, it isn’t – it’s about self-determination. So I’d be perfectly happy for the North of England to join an independent Scotland.

Not for me, it isn’t – it’s about self-determination. So I’d be perfectly happy for the North of England to join an independent Scotland.

?
So the Northerners wouldn’t get a say? It wouldn’t be Scottish self determination otherwise. An independent Scotland including half of England is not an independent Scotland.
Seems to me you just don’t want a tory govt. And there is no guarantee you won’t get the same or worse even if it’s just for a short period.

Not for me, it isn’t – it’s about self-determination.

Ben – this may be true of yourself, however, IME the oil revenues have been at the heart of every discussion on independence I have ever had with Scots.

What about Wales? What about Cornwall? They consider themselves Celtic.

I have worked with Cornish men who were absolutely serious about being independent. They were nutters mind. 🙂

An independent Scotland including half of England is not an independent Scotland.

Borders are just arbitrary lines in the sand. There’s no rule anywhere that says Scotland (or any country for that matter) is restricted or defined by it’s historical borders.

hels – Member

I plan to draw a big willie on my voting paper

Does that count as a ‘yes’?

If Scotland leaves the UK I might apply for a visa.

I am can and will vote

No from me (as it currently stands, I would be amazed if they can convince me but still time to do so)

Wife. No. Hell would freeze over before she votes yes

There’s no rule anywhere that says Scotland (or any country for that matter) is restricted or defined by it’s historical borders.

That’s not the SNPs view of things, in fact the complete opposite. What about all the cultural identity, making decisions for ourselves, Scotlands oil etc etc. Also at odds with the recent debates (and Salmonds opinion) about Shetland.

If it wasnt for the snp id be more open to a yes vote.

But as mikewsmith said the other day. Snp have been like a student whos just got a new credit card the last couple of years.

So unless there is radical change im in the no camp.

Too much smoke and mirrors, and the linchpin of their campaign seems to be ” do you want the scots to be known as chickens ”

That’s not the SNPs view of things

Maybe not, but it’s not a given that the SNP will be in power in 10-20 years time when these issues will have had time to settle.

There are no issues. Some in Scotland want to be independent of the remainder of the UK. This includes England (north and south). This is what the vote is about. they do not want you or us or Wales or NI.

I’d agree that Devo Max is probably what most people want. Why isn’t it an option?

Because Cameron doesn’t want it, and he’s far too clever to allow it on the ballot paper.

Grum I think Devo Max was dead in the water right from the start despite having quite a bit of popular support. The political parties on all sides were against it, SNP because of fears it would split the independence vote, Unionist partly because of its implications for other parts of the and mainly because they feared it would merely be a gradual step toward independence. I think its better explained here

Question Time

I’d agree that Devo Max is probably what most people want. Why isn’t it an option?

That’s because Devo Max is taking the piss. It is having your cake and eating it. The student with the credit card analogy would have be taken to another level if the SNP got devo max.

Still the Spanish PM is weighing in with his expected level of support. Of course, that part is all covered in the 667 pages!!! Expect wee eck to ignore the conclusion but focus on anohpther European leader describing him as the President of Scotland already. Does EIIR know yet?

The Spanish don’t really distinguish between PM and President, and the local autonomous communities (Catalonia, Andalusia etc.) all have presidents. I’m sure that won’t stop Salmond from making the most of that bit of the message, of course!

“…where do you stand?”
probably next to the fire to keep warm.

Will it be so popular that it is standing room only?

There are plenty of issues for the North of England. Yes, the scots may not want the north of England involved. That’s fine. No one is suggesting that the north of England be forced upon the scots against their will. There may come a point though when the north of England demands autonomy from London for exactly the same reasons as the scots are now doing. If/when that happens, and depending on how independence plays out for the Scots, there may well be a convincing argument for the North of England to join Scotland for each side’s mutual benefit.

Scot living in Scotland and a definite no from me, GF’s the same. My father is also a no, step mums the same. Most of my mates are no or undecided.

In fact the only person I know voting yes for sure is Druidh 😆

There may come a point though when the north of England demands autonomy from London for exactly the same reasons as the scots are now doing. If/when that happens, and depending on how independence plays out for the Scots, there may well be a convincing argument for the North of England to join Scotland for each side’s mutual benefit.

Fanciful at best. I wouldn’t hold my breath. IF scotland is successful, the last thing it’ll want is to share that having taken all the risk and pain for very little benefit.
It’s like watching your neighbour build a lovely big new house then asking if you can move in.

We’re semi-seriously considering emigrating if Scotland doesn’t get independence.

Ha! I might have to move with my job if it does go independent.

Back on topic
Scottish living in Scotland (doubly blessed) Yes
Mrs Duck; Welsh lucky enough to be married to a Scot. Yes

the north of England demands autonomy from London

FFS this is just getting silly now.

I would imagine London would jump at the chance. 8 million people living in some kind economic super city. Not having to worry about there under performing neighbours!

Anyway what about the Midlands?

Why not just go the whole hog and have anarchy?*

*By that I mean a truly anarchic state with no central government and not chaos and rioting.

English, almost as far from Scotland as I can be without falling into the sea.
I don’t care enough to even post on this thread.

English, with some scots-canadian ancestry. I hope the scots vote yes, and just to ensure the vote goes that way I want the franchise extended throughout the UK so that we can vote to be rid of them.

I am Scottish and British and a UK Citizen.
I am proud of all 3 and I know the difference between them.
I am voting NO, my wife is voting NO.

I believe the referendum will give a clear NO vote, but I fear the damage and bad feeling that Salmond and his cohorts are going to cause in the next 10 months. I fear that there is trouble ahead regardless.

How could the Scots resist having some of this kind of culture as part of their proud independent nation?

My OH’s Moms Partner thinks we should all get to vote as it will effect us in England too…

By that effect, maybe the whole world should be governed in the same manner, oh wait…Team America!

Seems like most Scottish STWers are voting no…

For those worried about England being condemmed forever more to rule by the Tories if Scotland breaks away, in every election since the late 60s (at least) if you removed the Scottish vote from the overall then the rest of the UK would have ended up with the same government that was elected with Scottish votes included.

Show how little influence we Scots have over the government we get and is a main reason for me wanting independence

Show how little influence we Scots have over the government we get and is a main reason for me wanting independence

We’ll just ignore Blair and Brown, then?

For those worried about England being condemmed forever more to rule by the Tories if Scotland breaks away, in every election since the late 60s (at least) if you removed the Scottish vote from the overall then the rest of the UK would have ended up with the same government that was elected with Scottish votes included.

Don’t think that’s quite true. IIRC ’64 and ’74 would have been different and this last election would have been a Tory majority rather than a coalition (you can argue there’s no difference though 🙁 ).

Show how little influence we Scots have over the government we get and is a main reason for me wanting independence

If you live in a ‘safe’ constituency as most of us do then you don’t have any influence over the government you get either. The difference is Scotland potentially gets to potentially do something about it.

BLair and (by default) Brown were voted in by the English electorate as were Thatcher and Major. Scots didn’t vote for Thatcher or Major at any point but were landed with them anyway, we arguably suffered the most from their policies as well.

Grum, the figures I saw said that the Scots vote was not decisive in any recent election, I will go and check up on this though. Sorry if I’m spreading mis-information.(If I am I guess there’s always hope of a career in politics)

For long time I’ve thought that the problem lies within London and the South East.
My proposal is to make everything within the M25 an independent state, outside Europe. We’ll be happy, they’ll be happy.
If that happens, the rest of us will be quite happy to continue as the UK I’m guessing!

we arguably suffered the most from their policies as well.

Really? I know plenty of Geordies and Scousers who will happily argue that with you!

I’m liking the idea that Scotland gets independence, the north of England applies to join and at a later date Wales follows suit.
It could be called the United Trailcentres of Britain.

Still wouldn’t vote for independence (even if I got a vote).

Edit: Deveron has the answer.

For me the argument about Westminster rule rings very true, but is an argument for increased powers for the Scottish government (Devo Max), not a complete dissolution of the union.

igm – Member
I’m liking the idea that Scotland gets independence, the north of England applies to join and at a later date Wales follows suit.
It could be called the United Trailcentres of Britain.

Why does everyone think the North of England is part of Scotland? We sorted that one out years ago.