In the last general election only slightly less people voted Conservative in Scotland than voted SNP, and Labour’s vote was only a bit more than double the Conservatives.

Yes they only won one seat but it’s not quite ‘no-one votes Conservative in Scotland’. Interestingly the Tories were dominant in Scotland until 1955 or so.

An interesting view of the SNP vote here:

So, it would appear that, certainly 50 or so years ago, Scots tended to be marginally MORE Conservative than English. But you will also know, of course, that, to make broad generalisations to which there are obviously a few exceptions on both sides, Conservative supporters tend to be more oriented towards the individual, while Labour supporters are towards society. And, of course, one way in which “the individual” manifests itself is in the tendency to be more inward-looking than outward-looking. Hence, for instance, the greater measure of support in the Conservative ranks for such things as withdrawal from the EU and so on.

In the context of Scotland, “the individual” also finds another ready outlet, with the entity being Scotland itself. In effect, what has happened is that a large number of people who, put in and English setting, would be Conservative supporters are, in the Scottish setting, SNP supporters. It is, thus, almost certain that, in an English setting, Labour-held seats such as Edinburgh South, Ochil and Stirling would, this election, have returned Conservative MPs, as the combined Conservative and SNP vote in each is more than the Labour vote.

Also, over the years, the steady erosion of the Conservative heartlands by the Lib-Dems (as was also happening in large parts of SW England and Cornwall), coupled with the loss of the “traditional” Protestant vote for the Conservatives in the Glasgow area (now you know why Rangers play in blue), combined to significantly weaken Conservative presence in Scotland, so it could be that many Scots no longer felt the Conservatives to be a particularly credible choice. Add to that general decline the emergence of the SNP – with a spectacular by-election victory, seat taken from Labour, in Hamilton – and the Conservative fate in Scotland was secured: the mainstream right, by and large, now switched to the SNP.

So, those “die-hard” areas in the Highlands that the Liberals had been unable to take fell, in time, to the SNP.

My proposal is to make everything within the M25 an independent state, outside Europe.

London’s already a tax haven for foreign billionaires. The solution is not to give them even more autonomy from national and international regulation, but to tax them until they bleed within the current system.

Why does everyone think the North of England is part of Scotland? We sorted that one out years ago.

Pffft.. I tell my Scottish mates that the North of England is really just South South Scotland 😀

The SNP used to be known years ago as the tartan tories but that is clearly not the case now,50 years or so have passed since then.There is a tory support in Scotland but it is extremely low and there is no evidence that it is growing.

I can’t vote anyway but in my experience it’s best not to vote for anything where those whose idea it is aren’t going to be left carrying the can or bearing any undisclosed/unidentified/inaccurately specified cost.

I can see politicians, advisers and the legal profession doing awfully well out of this, I’m less convinced about the rest of us.

.There is a tory support in Scotland but it is extremely low and there is no evidence that it is growing.

Have you seen grums’ post?

There is a tory support in Scotland but it is extremely low and there is no evidence that it is growing.

No new houses or golf memberships available in Elie then Gordie?

There is a tory support in Scotland but it is extremely low

Only 3.2 percent less than support for the SNP, according to the last election.

yes tories still flatlining in all elections.SNP vote is low in uk election but still up.

Tory support up 0.9% on previous.

JOIN SCOTLAND?! JOIN SCOTLAND?! It was them bastards that betrayed us to Edmund and lead to the loss of his majesty on the raise and the blinding of his sons. This after our glorious contribution at Brunabur, Malcolms issue can stuff it, we’d rather burn.

I am British, born and live in England. I very much hope the vote is No but appreciate it’s not my decision. I think the UK is stronger, economically and culturally as a combined group of nations.

If Scotland does vote Yes I would look very closely at the way Independence is setup. I wouldn’t be in favour of allowing Scotland to use the Pound, I would insist Scotland takes it’s share of the British National debt, I would insist it has it’s own membership of the EU and not piggy back on the British membership. The British submarine fleet should be moved.

I think if Scotland votes Yes the rest of Britain should have a referendum on ejecting them totally from the UK.

FWIW I am not a Tory supporter.

Scottish, resident in Scotland work all over the UK. I will be voting YES for independence, as are all family members eligible to vote.

I have already disowned those who previously indicated they were voting NO. 🙂

Prior to that it was probably a 50-50 split amongst the family.

Amongst friends it seems to 60-40 in favour of NO vote.

Amongst colleagues I have no idea as no-one seems to ever have the conversation.

Overall I think it will be closer than polls predict, but I fear the NO vote will just edge it. This would make things a bit interesting post referendum.

I think if Scotland votes Yes the rest of Britain should have a referendum on ejecting them totally from the UK.

Think you have somewhat missed the point of the referendum!

I would imagine London would jump at the chance. 8 million people living in some kind economic super city. Not having to worry about there under performing neighbours!

It wouldn’t be an economic super city if all the people they rely on to do the dirty jobs up-sticks and leave for other parts of the country because they can’t afford to work or live in London. It’d essentially become a ghetto (albeit a very luxurious one) for the rich serviced by immigrant labour. If you look at other tax havens like Monaco, Liechtenstein etc they’re very wealthy, but hardly economic powerhouses.

Anyway what about the Midlands?

What about them? 😀

Absolute yes. For good or bad. From Glasgow.

Absolute yes. For good or bad.

That’s the type of conviction I admire. There’s too much “maybe, but only if I will be no less well off”.

dazh – Member
London’s already a tax haven for foreign billionaires. The solution is not to give them even more autonomy from national and international regulation, but to tax them until they bleed within the current system.

Bit off topic this but …

The rules for London are no different than the rest of the UK for wealthy foreigners. Most of them choose to live in and around London. With housing stamp duty at 7% for over £2m properties I think taxes are already quite high for them – no ? They tend to spend money and pay a lot of VAT.

As for “bleeding” them, that’s just politics of envy. The French have seen what 75% (declared illegal) and 66% taxes have done for earnings over €1m, their citizens have left. Spoke to a horse racing trainer a month ago and the French raving scene has been decimated as the owners have left, those that care for horses, train them etc, they are not millionaires but depend on the wealthy for their livelihood. David Beckham came an played football for free, he waived his €5m salary (had equivalent amount donated it charity, the government even tried to tax that). At 50% tax perhaps the French would have collected €2.5m instead of zero.

ads678 – Member
I’m English/British, and very bored with the whole thing. As I don’t have a vote I wonder why it’s even on the news down here.

I say go for it, you already hate us so you may as well hate us across a proper border!

Hate has absolutely nothing to do with it.

It’s just time for Scotland to stand on it’s own 2 feet and live or die by it’s own democratic choices.

@dazh – London would be massively better off if it where independent (it will never happen). London already pays for all the social housing required for low paid workers, fact is it also pays a lot towards the social housing and wealthfare for the rest of the country. Just look at stamp duty revenues and income tax by geography, the South East supports the rest of the UK. I don’t have an issue with that as such, it’s normal for a capital city. It’s the bleed them type comment which I say, most respectfully, is misguided.

It’s just time for Scotland to stand on it’s own 2 feet and live or die by it’s own democratic choices.

But doesn’t Devo Max satisfy that?

Wee Eck seemed to think it was a good option:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9369801/Alex-Salmond-Devo-max-instead-of-independence-is-very-attractive.html

GrahamS – Member
It’s just time for Scotland to stand on it’s own 2 feet and live or die by it’s own democratic choices.
But doesn’t Devo Max satisfy that?

Devo Max isn’t on the table, and watch the phrase dissappear from the collective vocubularly immediately after a no vote.

Devo max is an imaginary carrot.

But doesn’t Devo Max satisfy that?

But where can we vote for Devo Max?

Scottish living in Edinburgh and, unless something spectacularly bad happens, I’ll be voting Yes in the referendum.

I don’t think anyone denies that Scotland is a country in its own right therefore it should govern its own affairs. Pretty simple really.

@seosaam77 – I too respect your choice and conviction. However the world is changing and countries are getting bigger. A small independent nation cannot survive economically (frankly the UK is too small already really). Salmond is trying to keep the British Pound for example, he knows an Independent Scotland would be sunk with it’s own currency waiting to be accepted into the euro (it would not be accepted immediately I believe to the EU as a full member or to the euro).

Graham – hence my comment about the elephant in the room. Once again (possibly) the best interests of the people is lost in the political battles. As others say, the winners are the lawyers and the poliiticians rather than the people they represent.

Funnily enough I think we have seen that somewhere else not so far away quite recently!!!!

@dazh – London would be massively better off if it where independent (it will never happen). London already pays for all the social housing required for low paid workers, fact is it also pays a lot towards the social housing and wealthfare for the rest of the country. Just look at stamp duty revenues and income tax by geography, the South East supports the rest of the UK.

I’m not sure how true that is overall though. London receives massive amounts of government spending, e.g. on transport, the arts, jobs located there.

Devo Max isn’t on the table
…
But where can we vote for Devo Max?

And that’s part of why I am a “No” vote. I’d gladly vote for Scotland to have more independent power, but not at the cost of the union.

If Devo Max was on the table, I’d vote for it. I think that’s what a sizable number of Scots really want and is a compromise that many more on both sides could live with.

I don’t think anyone denies that Scotland is a country in its own right therefore it should govern its own affairs. Pretty simple really.

And Devo Max would satisfy that.

jambalaya – Member
@seosaam77 – I too respect your choice and conviction. However the world is changing and countries are getting bigger. A small independent nation cannot survive economically (frankly the UK is too small already really). Salmond is trying to keep the British Pound for example, he knows an Independent Scotland would be sunk with it’s own currency waiting to be accepted into the euro (it would not be accepted immediately I believe to the EU as a full member or to the euro).

This is the thing I see between the yes and the no camp, the no camp seems to have a fear of not matching up to the historical place britain has had in the world.

I don’t share those fears at all. neither do I care for the aims of being a global superpower.

I’m happy enough for Scotland to find it’s own place in the world.

Hate has absolutely nothing to do with it.

to be honest, I think for a lot of people, those who aren’t interested in politics, or economy, it does, maybe not hate, but certainly anti-englishism.

maybe not hate, but certainly anti-englishism.

I think you have to differentiate “anti-english-rule” with “anti-english”. They are two very different things, but the rhetoric can often sound the same.

Looking at some of the comments on this thread, there seems to be a degree of anti-scots rhetoric going on too.

bigjim – Member
Hate has absolutely nothing to do with it.
to be honest, I think for a lot of people, those who aren’t interested in politics, or economy, it does, maybe not hate, but certainly anti-englishism.

You must move in completely different circles from me, most people I know will vote yes, and no one has ever given me any anti english reasons. No doubt those type of voters will exist, but I think they are a small minority.

While the group of the UK as a whole is democratic(so crying of freedom don’t wash with me). It’s not a democratic group that works for Scotland. For me that’s more or less the reasoning I hear from people. and my basic reasoning.

Btw if separation does happen, I don’t see scotland and england moving too far apart anyhow, definitely not in the short term. But in the long term Scotland will be able to make subtle decisions for itself that make all the difference.

Plus it’ll be much easier to chase a bunch of scottish charlatans than it is westminster charlatans(who have it all sown up.)

I think you have to differentiate “anti-english-rule” with “anti-english”. They are two very different things, but the rhetoric can often sound the same.

Looking at some of the comments on this thread, there seems to be a degree of anti-scots rhetoric going on too.
Anti-westminster would be a more accurate term imo.

What will happen if/when there is a No vote. Can Eck just call another referendum and keep going?

If it wasnt for english people repeatedly telling me that I hate them, I’m sure I’d quite like the english.

Yes for me, but can we change it back if it doesnt work?

Yes for me, but can we change it back if it doesnt work?

😀

Scottish living in Scotland.

I’ll be voting Yes.

I’d like my electoral vote to count for something and maybe one day to actually be part of a democratic process, so no alternative for me.

I’d also like to try and be part of a democracy where the government obeys the people, not the other way round like in the UK set up.

..the no camp seems to have a fear of not matching up to the historical place britain has had in the world…
I’m happy enough for Scotland to find it’s own place in the world.

Even if it turns out to be this place?

?

GrahamS – Member

Even if it turns out to be this place?I’m pretty confident that it won’t.

I’ve got a confidence in the Scottish people that the no camp don’t have.

I’ve got a confidence in the Scottish people that the no camp don’t have.

That is the kind of rhetoric I really dislike. 🙁

The whole “if you vote No then you are a coward, you don’t believe in Scotland or you are not a proper Scot” approach. It is no way to have a debate.

Someone hit the nail on the head in The Scotsman the other day:

“SNP are starting to sound like pushers. ‘Try it, you’ll feel great! What are you scared? How about I give you some sweeties for the kids. No, not now….only when you see things my way’. ‘ I know everyone else says this is bad for you but my independent advice says they’re all wrong. Go on, try it or you won’t be a true Scot.”