One thing I noticed with the spec SL it had 2.3 tyres as opposed 2.6 which a lot of ebikes seem to favour, clearly to get the published weight down, they are all at it

I have wondered why this is ??? I swapped tyres from the wifes Ebike to 2.3s and really helps its handling.

when was the last time SC did something innovative?

Wee metal chain slap plate

There’s some brilliant suggestions for Santa Cruz ebike names over on pinkbike – to think they could have gone 29er and called it the PowerTower, MegaPower or LazyBoy!

Daft question, when was the last tone SC did something innovative

They jumped on 650b fairly early with the Solo (as was) and the Bronson. That was 7 years ago, mind.

Daft question, when was the last time SC did something innovative? I know a few folk who ride them and by all accounts what they do they do well but it’s all tried and tested stuff. That’s not a bad thing but being surprised it’s not innovative is a bit like being surprised that Simon Cowell’s next huge commercial success isn’t a death metal band.

Not a daft question at all. I ride a SC and it’s the nicest bike i’ve ever ridden by far. Its just really well balanced and responsive. But it’s certainly not innovative or groundbreaking. But i’m not really after innovative. I tend to hold on to my bikes for about 3-4 years so i’ll quite happily let others test new ideas first as bikes are too expensive for me to “experiment” with.

While the Saracen has an alu front triangle and the battery mounted on the down tube instead of in it and only one spec (equivalent to the second-tier Santa Cruz build), they’re only £3k as opposed to £7.7k

Where does the extra 4.7k come from then? Even if you class the Saracen frame as a freebie that’s one hell of a difference for a frame. All the bits that hang off it, including the motor must be at a similar fixed cost (Accepting that Saracen will get the Shimano bits cheaper).

They jumped on 650b fairly early with the Solo (as was) and the Bronson. That was 7 years ago, mind.

No earlier than anyone else though?

You’d have thought for £12000 they’d have included the axs dropper post.

Jeez.

Where does the extra 4.7k come from then?

Partially, comparing RRP of a new product to an older heavily discounted one?

No earlier than anyone else though?

and since when was a 1.2″ bigger wheel considered innovative?

I guess a fair chunk of their natural market are keen on ebikes so they were losing sales. Fair enough. But it doesn’t really look as though their heart is in it. “Stick a Shimano motor in whichever of our bikes looks most appropriate. That should prop the sales up for a bit”. Smacks a bit of “lets see if this fad lasts” to me. Who’d be a bike company though. Endlessly re-tooling to chase the latest trend in a declining market.

Why does everyone insist on the horrid tube width combo on an e mtb? I get that they “hide” the batteries in that god awful down tube and one hulking great unit is the laziest best way to do it but why pair that with a skinny top tube that just serves to make it look ap the worse/more obvious.

Stick a Shimano motor in …

Stick a Shimano groupset on…

They jumped on 650b fairly early with the Solo (as was) and the Bronson. That was 7 years ago, mind.

No earlier than anyone else though?

maybe it was just the timing as it was not long after I started mtbing seriously – but to me the original Bronson defined a genre that we now take for granted.

I’m not saying they were completely first, but they jumped in with two feet with their new flagship – see how (for example), two of the perennial names in MTB, Orange 5 and the Stumpjumper, responded to the Bronson.

They’ve innovated heavily in the DH race world, not that that has much implication on the majority of us (or even on the DH bike owning Bike Park riding public)

to me the original Bronson defined a genre that we now take for granted

I think that’s more to do with it doing the job better* than its contemporaries rather than blazing a trail though, it launched about the same time as the 5 650b the geometry wasn’t anything significantly off beat with everything else and so on.

They’ve innovated heavily in the DH race world

Admittedly not my area of interest but, I recall they put a 29er fork on the V10 a good hour before the competition rolled out a proper 29er DH bike** but I don’t really remember anything else which has been shouted about.

*or if you’re in the other camp just with more marketing/a price tag that needed more post purchase justification.

**I fully accept this might be as wrong as as hanging a photo of Maggie Thatcher in a bikini on your bedroom wall.

You’re all ignoring the important news here, there’s gonna be a new Danny Mac video 👍

Ugly bike from a boring brand. But, ebike, so I’m sure the trails will be swamped with them soon enough.

, there’s gonna be a new Danny Mac video 👍

The outtakes are going to be that much more painful given the weight of that thing.

Admittedly not my area of interest but, I recall they put a 29er fork on the V10 a good hour before the competition rolled out a proper 29er DH bike** but I don’t really remember anything else which has been shouted about.

Preface – I’m more of a syndicate (the race team) fanboi than I am of the bikes/brand

was t’other way around. All off-season developing and practising the 29er V10 (complete with some media misdirection with pics of hightowers with triple clamps.) which necessarily included collaboration with fox and maxxis.

Show up at the first race of the season, qualified well, then a rain affected race which added to the uncertainty of whether it was actually any good.

Next race half the teams have hacked their bikes about with prototype rear ends and linkages to squeeze some big wheels in.

Also worthy of note is the first carbon DH bike; and the first iteration V10 suspension when it first came out was fairly gamechanging.

Possibly by virtue of having the three tall riders of Peat, Minaar and Bryceland rather than otherworldly foresight, but they also led the way for the long race bikes we see today.

And don’t forget the anal setup nerds that are Minaar and Marsh. They may have got things wrong and they may have done things irrelevant to those not racing WC DH; but they’ve made things a lot more scientific than the decade before.

^all random memories of a fan, may not be entirely 100% accurate

Who’d be a bike company though. Endlessly re-tooling to chase the latest trend in a declining market.

It’s the bike companies that have driving the change, not consumers- e-bikes might be the first time, off the top of my head, that consumers are pushing for change, and it’s costing the manufacturers to innovate, unlike other recent changes.

Heckler, it might look a bit dated, but SC have the resources to be able to sit back and watch through a development cycle, then next time deliver something that’s a bit more at the top of the game.

How big is Santa Cruz compared to the others. within this market?

I know the haters like to claim they are no longer boutique etc.,

What are the sales figures (number of bikes) from SC compared to the high end MTBs of say Spesh or Trek?
Both of those companies have thriving Road, Hybrid and $400 MTB-shaped hybrid ranges that surely dwarfs proper MTBs, where SC does not, so I cant find a meaningful comparison figure.

So much hate for the brand and bike , I think it looks well in the yellow, Its a brand that looks after its customers. The bikes normally ride well and if someone wants to splurge a load of coin on something they like so what. I mean other big brands offer builds at daft price points.
The bike looks nice and if Dannys chucking another vid out soon on the bike thats a plus.

It looks nice, will do the job and work just as well as most of their offerings, but i do think the 504wh battery is a big mistake, at a time when the likes of specialized and others move to 700wh it’s giving them an advantage over selling to the over 50s and those not quite as fit as they used to be, who will want a bit of power in reserve, and more than likely be the ones with the money to buy 10k bikes.

SC get disproportionate hate on here, yes they make expensive bikes, but they make affordable alloy stuff too, that a lot of their competitors dont make. And they’re great to deal with on warranty and always have been. Lots of them about for a reason.

the 504wh battery is a big mistake, at a time when the likes of specialized and others move to 700wh

I have the Levo with the 500wh and it’s fine, plus the bigger battery adds weight. I suspect they’re limited by Shimano with respect to battery size anyway. Looks like a nice bike, wished they’d gone 29er as that’s my preference. Interesting to hear how roskopp thinks ebikes will be 50% of their range in a few years.

And for those saying how they’re behind the tech as the Levo SL is showing how it should be done aren’t really understanding that the SL is completely different from a normal ebike.

+1 for those grotesque fat downtubes on ebikes being a massive turn off.

It’s like the bike equivalent of a combover.

I’d rather have the battery lumped onto a normal-ish tube.

SC get disproportionate hate on here, yes they make expensive bikes, but they make affordable alloy stuff too

More affordable, but still not great value, there’s some pretty budget kit on the mid priced stuff.

It’s like the bike equivalent of a combover.

It’s more like a pot belly on a ballerina. All these svelte dainty tubes everywhere else then massive fat paunch that just looks completely out of place.

I wish they’d either size up the rest of the tubes or split the batteries out into a few smaller packages.

So much hate for the brand and bike

For a thread about an[y] ebike this one seems to be pretty measured.
For a thread about a santa cruz, this one seems to be doing fairly well.
For a thread about a santa cruz ebike i’m staggered how reasonable this thread has remained, I’ll be honest I expected my phone to spray me with actual bile by the end of page 1.

+1 for those grotesque fat downtubes on ebikes being a massive turn off.

It’s like the bike equivalent of a combover.

I’d rather have the battery lumped onto a normal-ish tube.

I don’t know how anyone can think this looks ‘good’, it’s like they just slapped a battery onto the downtube with no thought or design.

Ignoring the Heckler, I’m looking forward to more bikes like the levo sl – not much heavier than a normal bike, with the same range and just reduced power. Lets face it, you don’t need turbo mode for most riding, and if I was doing big days out in the mountains (the main reason why I’d consider an e-bike) I’d prefer not to give myself a hernia whe lifting it over gates or having some hike-a-bike.

Might as well buy one of these 🙂 MSRP: 10,499.00 USD

https://www.ktm.com/us/e-ride/freeride-e-xc/?fbclid=IwAR30ex1j17IZvrRTDc9Ms6nb3vHdFIqQBWASEuTu3plOacsdfUfd7UbdlMI

Aaaand there we are.

3 pages until motorbike.

🙂

I rode over 27 miles on my YT Decoy at the weekend

LOL – I remember back in the UK that distance used to be a normal MTB ride, you’re all getting soft!

Interesting to hear how roskopp thinks ebikes will be 50% of their range in a few years.

Higher-end enduro style MTB market/sales will be more than 50% ebikes in a few years imo. 75% plus perhaps.
(Will be interesting to see how that comment ages)

I rode over 27 miles on my YT Decoy at the weekend

LOL – I remember back in the UK that distance used to be a normal MTB ride, you’re all getting soft!

The distance alone wasn’t really the point (I’ve ridden that distance on my “normal” bike before), but the time it took to do it. That would’ve taken me 4-5 hours on a normal bike, whereas on my Decoy it was more like 3. For a lot of people with time constraints, ebikes help to get more riding in.

I don’t know how anyone can think this looks ‘good’, it’s like they just slapped a battery onto the downtube with no thought or design.

Yup that… It may be functional, but even something like this has had some effort.

I don’t know how anyone can think this looks ‘good’, it’s like they just slapped a battery onto the downtube with no thought or design.

At least the lurid paintjob distracts from the big lump on the downtube.

But seriously, ebikes are the perfect demonstration of the adage “you can’t polish a turd”.

Trying too hard makes them look even more tragic.

For a lot of people with time constraints, ebikes help to get more riding in.

I still don’t understand this. 3 hours riding on a ebike, is the same as 3 hours on a normal bike. Just because you go further doesn’t mean you rode more.

Is it just me or does that Liv have the longest bottle cage bolts in the world?

But seriously, ebikes are the perfect demonstration of the adage “you can’t polish a turd”.

I guess the issue is there’s a lot of market at the lower end and that’s what the batteries are designed for, it just feels like, rather than developing a battery format which suits a decent frame design the industry is happy slapping a huge rectangular lump of BSO power source “inside” the down tube instead because its off the shelf and cheap design wise (I assume the cells are better on the whole on things like the heckler but the case is the same.)

Is it just me or does that Liv have the longest bottle cage bolts in the world?

They’re 5mm spacers… not really sure why, but they’re not used on ours now.