Rushup edge resurfacing

I’ve started a thread to highlight the relevant DCC policy documents, should anyone be interested 🙄
But please don’t post on that thread, it’s best to keep all comments here.

I would have hoped if they were going to carry out some work they would have done it in a similar way to the Roych.

Just off Rushup Edge is this stables.
They run a little cafe too called the No Car Cafe[/url] – basically you can only get to it by horse, bike or on foot.

A lot of their revenue comes from people using them as an overnight stopping point for horses doing a “round the Peaks” trail. They offer various packages whereby you can leave your horse trailer there and head off for a 3-day tour on horseback stopping at various similar places overnight.

Might be worth seeing if they had any input into the works or if they were aware of the trail work being carried out? They’ll probably also be able to put you in touch with the local BHS campaign group or whatever they have. Plus they do a really good Welsh Rarebit.

If you can only get to that cafe by bike, horse on foot, how do you get your trailer to it?

The Roych is a national trail that received additional funding.

Lots of background info to this and many of the other points raised on our website. If you can support us – and have not done so already – please sign up as a member.

http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org

Thanks
Dan

I emailed the national park, to ask if they knew that DCC were committing ecological vandalism (not my exact words…)

I got a response from Mike Rhodes….

Rhodes Mike <Mike.Rhodes@peakdistrict.gov.uk>

Thank you for your e-mail.

We understand the concerns that people have about the recent works carried out by DCC to maintain the bridleways and byways in the National Park and we also understand that DCC has a duty to carry out maintenance to the route network.

As you suggest, the National Park Authority clearly has a role here in relation to its management of recreation in the Park and this route in particular, and it is also keen to ensure that repairs and maintenance are carried out in a way which recognises the sensitivities of the site, in accord with National Park conservation purposes.

We are therefore very keen to take every opportunity to engage with DCC on its plans for work on these tracks, and to ensure that their works take our values into account. We will also seek to ensure that all relevant interests and user groups are kept informed and understand actions on these sites. We have had some success in relation to Cut Gate, the Roych and more recently on Long Causeway and are keen to maintain this involvement.

Following the unexpected commencement of works at Rushup Edge, we have contacted DCC and asked them to arrange an urgent site visit to look in detail at what work they are planning there before work progresses any further, to ensure that they understand our requirements as outlined above.

Regards

Mike Rhodes

Access Manager

I emailed the national park, to ask if they knew that DCC were committing ecological vandalism (not my exact words…)

I got a response from Mike Rhodes….

Great work Dan! Sounds like they weren’t aware of the work and weren’t engaged before it started.

whereby you can leave your horse trailer there

its marketing innit, for punters to feel like its wilderness but convenient 😆

Good work dan1980 🙂

@crazy-legs thanks for that link to the no car cafe, very interesting

@dan, thanks for posting the reply and well done for actually getting one ! I think the issue here is maintenance, was it really required and who said so ? I do wonder what he meant by success of Cut Gate ?

Good work dan1980

Indeed. Is there any chance of one of the local guys being allowed to tag along if there is a site meeting? Presumably, as it’s DCC involved, they won’t mind if he just turns up without any warning or prior consultation. 😀

I do wonder what he meant by success of Cut Gate ?

Well, if I recall correctly Cut Gate just had some flags laid on a really manky boggy/rutted bit, and the rest of it was left well alone. I’d call that a success if the alternative was the usual five billion tonnes of aggregate and planings along the length of the thing (plus a stannah stairlift up the hairpins), which is presumably what DCC would have done.

Nice to see that someone is willing to actually reply, even if they’re not from DCC, well done dan1980.

Mike Rhodes is a good guy, he worked with us to form the “Ride The Peak” group which later migrated to Ride Sheffield. He knows what he’s talking about and I can guarantee will not be happy with the work done by DCC

@mintimperial (great forum name btw) thanks

Sadly the responses from Mike and Jim Dixon both sound like they intend for work to continue once they have seen it- there is no mention of stopping the work or getting them to rip it all out.

Also intrigued by what “success” occurred on the Long Causeway.

Just a heads up, dcc are starting to respond to Facebook comments. Let’s keep the pressure on and keep the comments coming.

Dan1980 for Prime Minister!

Well done, fella. I don’t want to jinx it, but that sounds like it could actually stop some of the worst damage being done (crosses fingers).

If nothing else it will cause an awkward moment for whatever bright spark at DCC thought the “sod em, let’s just do it anyway”. Hopefully awkward enough that they get a bollocking and think twice before just calling in the diggers.

A chink of light, perhaps?

http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/leisure/countryside/access/latest-work/chapel-gate/default.asp

@crazy-legs thanks for that link to the no car cafe, very interesting

Point being that I rode up Rushup on Sunday (as I mentioned a few pages ago) and the state that bits of the trail were in you would not have got a horse up it with those loose rocks there.

So I’d be interested to know if the local stables were aware of what was going on before it was actually done. I’m not blaming them at all, it’s just a (very) local user group who’s interest in the subject would be very close to their hearts.

It’ll be next weekend before I can get up there so maybe there’s someone on here free during the week?

Dan1980, good work mate. Has anyone reminded Mr Rhodes of the pdnpa guidance on trail repairs that was cited a couple of pages back? The big about not denying people access to adventure?

Work is currently planned on a section of the route stretching around three-quarters of a mile. This work is expected to cost around £30,000. Additional maintenance may also be carried out to improve the lower section of the route.

A £40k saving in a couple of days! Amazing

Edit, from here: http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/leisure/countryside/access/latest-work/chapel-gate/default.asp

Nothing DCC have stated really answers the question – does it?

Why does increasing accessibility have to involve just flattening everything? Can’t there be a smooth side and a rough side – the path is wide enough? Can’t there be a meandering smooth line that the mountain bike interest line cuts across a few times?

I just don’t get why it has to be all-out destruction.

Unless it is something to do with this horse-drawn carriage stuff (in which case all is lost as we are dealing with a mad man).

What are they going to do when it snows? If this ‘access for all’ stuff is carried to its logical conclusion they will have to snow plough it and probably provide patio heaters every 400 yards to combat hypothermia.

Why can’t they just accept that the outdoors is sometimes a harsh and physical place. That’s what attracts many people to it. At some point you just have accept that an element of difficulty (and dare I say it risk) is perfectly acceptable and if you are an adult you should be trusted to choose whether or not you accept this risk.

Nanny state bullshit and one man’s pet project masquerading as ‘Access for All’.

Let’s hope the intervention from Mr Rhodes has some effect.

It is rather a pathetic response for DCC to claim it is in a “difficult position”. As I said on the FB page any difficulty is entirely of their own making due to their cack handed approach to this type of work.

I wonder if anyone passing that Horsey cafe could pop in for a brew and have a chat with them to find out if they are aware of what is going on up the road.

If DCC are correct in their response then this raises the question why are there no mtb representatives on the LAF? Following the CROW Act these LAFs were established for this very purpose to give users of the countryside the opportunity to input into such issues…

It seems to me to be all well and good to have your little local interest groups but if they are not tied into the larger umbrella through which consultation and access information is dispersed then what actual purpose do you serve? All other user groups appear to be represented and I guarantee they will be feeding information back to their members. To think you should be treated any differently is quite naieve.

If indeed there is a representative from Ride Sheffield or Peakmtb then surely the failure is yours if you failed to adequately share this information with your members you represent at the time.

Alternatively of course DCC could be lying through their teeth that such consultantion has taken place….

There is a mountain-biker on the LAF, apparently – someone called Adge Last.

Just had a promising email from Friends Of The Peak District…..

Heard about this yesterday via our FB page and now from Cy from Cotic and other sources. Mike Rhodes at PDNPA has just got back to me and said the following:

“We understand the concerns that mountain-bikers have about the recent works carried out by DCC to maintain the bridleways and byways in the National Park and we also understand that DCC has a duty to carry out maintenance to the route network.
The National Park Authority clearly has a role here in relation to its management of recreation in the Park, and it is also keen to ensure that repairs and maintenance are carried out in a way which recognises the sensitivities of the site, in accord with National Park conservation purposes.
We are therefore very keen to take every opportunity to engage with DCC on its plans for work on these tracks, and to ensure that their works take our values into account. We will also seek to ensure that all relevant interests and user groups are kept informed and understand actions on these sites. We have had some success in relation to Cut Gate, the Roych and more recently on Long Causeway and are keen to maintain this involvement.
Following the unexpected commencement of works at Rushup Edge, we have contacted DCC and asked them to arrange an urgent site visit to look in detail at what work they are planning there before work progresses any further, to ensure that they understand our requirements as outlined above.”

Underneath the official speak, I think the NPA officers must be seething. FPD will be adding weight to everyone’s concerns and I would suggest that instead of dealing with officers at DCC (who have Teflon skin), it’s best to take it upstairs to local councillors plus Andy Botham and Joan Dixon, the dep. and cabinet member for transport issues, which includes green lanes and RoW.

Hope this helps. Please post on our FB thread too!

Does anyone know when the Rushup Edge sunken track became “Chapel-en-le-Frith BOAT 144”? It’s on my OS map as a bridleway. The distinction may be significant.

I’ve never even ridden a mountain bike in the Peak, though I’ve spent many days walking there and this has made me so furious I’ve had to email DCC.

I think what’s most frustrating is that I’ve just come back from a holiday riding a horse across mid-Wales – often up and down very similar rocky tracks. Those rocky steps that are claimed to be a problem for horses are absolutely fine – but loose gravel and scalpings would be horrible. It’s the same on foot, rock steps good, so-called improvements bad. It’s actually quite technical and challenging on a mountain bike but as we all well know, bridleways aren’t really meant for us, we’re just ‘kindly’ allowed to share them with the feet and hooves.

FOTPD facebook page
https://m.facebook.com/friendsofthepeakdistrict?_rdr

There is a mountain-biker on the LAF, apparently – someone called Adge Last.

So who is he and what is his purpose for being there then? Does he represent his own interests or a group?
Why aren’t you in communication with him…
You don’t know….. That’s my point exactly….

You should be asking yourselves why have you not made yourself part of the process as they exist for a purpose rather than expecting the process to come to you…

So why aren’t you on the LAF?

There is a mountain-biker on the LAF, apparently – someone called Adge Last.

I think we definitely need to hear from this person. If they’re the sole representative of MTBers in the Peak who actually has any clout with DCC we need to know how did they got this position, what they aim to achieve in the LAF, how they have engaged with PDMTB or RS and why not if they haven’t, what their view on 650b wheels is, etc. etc.

So why aren’t you on the LAF?

Heh, or you could blame PDMTB for not getting in touch with someone they didn’t know existed, true.

I think we definitely need to hear from this person.

He’s on twitter and ukc. And has retweeted something from PeakMTB on this…

Tweets by onarockatlast

Mintimperial anyone (member of public etc) can apply to sit on a LAF a simple application process which will ask about your experience, interests and what you can bring to the forum hence asking his motivations… They could be purely personal…Obviously a LAF works much more effectively if this person represens recognized groups and so is able to expand the umbrella which is how such forums should work

Si, sorry my last post came out a bit confrontational. I agree entirely with you. All I really mean to say here is that PDMTB and this Adge chap really, really need to get in touch with each other! As martinhutch points out he clearly knows they exist now and I’d hope that he’s dropped them a line to help out with their work. But if not then PDMTB need to get on his case.

And yes, PDMTB need to get on the LAF too by the looks of it.

Not at all!! I wouldn’t blame Peakmtb for not knowing they existed, but follow the web links and the information is freely available… Member profiles etc…. Reading the above though it would appear peakmtb did know of a representative but probably didn’t understand the processes…. Tough way to learn though hey!!

A quick google seems to suggest that he is Annie Last’s father and is more than likely a fairly keen mountain biker. Still, he is the only one out quite a large group of people which doesn’t seem in proportion with the different user groups that visit the Peaks.

Anyone else get this response:

Thank you for your interest in the work we are currently carrying out to repair erosion at Chapel Gate.

We realise the Peak District National Park is an area which is close to many people’s hearts and they feel very passionately, as we do, about its protection and maintenance.

Up to 16 million people visit the park every year. We want as many of them as possible to have an enjoyable experience, whether they’re out for a drive, walking, running, or cycling, and to encourage them to return to boost the local economy.

However, the very nature of the park’s varied uses mean we’re never going to be able to please everyone with the work we do to maintain and repair its rights of way.

Mountain bikers prefer challenging, rockier routes, whereas these might not be suitable for horse riders or walkers.

We carry out maintenance on paths in the greatest need of repair or with potential to benefit the greatest number of users.

The work at Chapel Gate was approved in November last year, as part of our Green Lane Action Plan, and has been discussed at the Peak District Local Access Forum, which includes representatives from many different interest groups and comments on planned improvement works. It is expected to take around six weeks to complete.

Many areas of the path are in a serious state of deterioration. Work is needed to combat erosion, prevent further deterioration and make the route safe. Currently, many people are unable to use Chapel Gate because of the rocky ‘steps’ which have evolved due to damage over time.

We’re not killjoys and don’t want to stop people having fun, but we have a legal obligation to maintain our routes. Unfortunately, this means we have to carry out some maintenance work which won’t be popular with everyone.

We understand that you may not agree with the work we’re doing but hope you can appreciate the difficult position we find ourselves in.

Regards

Councillor Andy Botham
Deputy Cabinet Member for Jobs Economy and Transport

Yep, I just got a reply from DCC, from a councillor Andy Botham, as above. I’ll reply politely telling him that I think he’s talking bobbins.

I just got that exact response, as did my girlfriend.

They didn’t even manage to copy and paste my name in the same colour as the rest of the text…

It doesn’t actually reply to any of my questions and is essentially just fobbing me off.

I’ve replied starting with ‘Thanks for taking the time to read about my concerns and for sending such a lovely generic reply.’

Keep hassling them!

Yup, I go the same letter from Andy Botham – basically we wanted to do it, so tough

Friends of the Peak District just put this up after I asked them about it yesterday.

Here’s the NPA response: “We understand the concerns that mountain-bikers have about the recent works carried out by DCC to maintain the bridleways and byways in the National Park and we also understand that DCC has a duty to carry out maintenance to the route network.
The National Park Authority clearly has a role here in relation to its management of recreation in the Park, and it is also keen to ensure that repairs and maintenance are carried out in a way which recognises the sensitivities of the site, in accord with National Park conservation purposes.
We are therefore very keen to take every opportunity to engage with DCC on its plans for work on these tracks, and to ensure that their works take our values into account. We will also seek to ensure that all relevant interests and user groups are kept informed and understand actions on these sites. We have had some success in relation to Cut Gate, the Roych and more recently on Long Causeway and are keen to maintain this involvement.
Following the unexpected commencement of works at Rushup Edge, we have contacted DCC and asked them to arrange an urgent site visit to look in detail at what work they are planning there before work progresses any further, to ensure that they understand our requirements as outlined above.” Hopefully DCC might take on board their concerns, but we’re not holding our breath. Our advice is to lobby DCC politicians (i.e. councillors) as the officers (staff) currently seem completely unresponsive