Removing stuck swingarm bolt

My Cube Stereo SL from 2016 is needing bearings replaced in the swingarm. Most are easy but the bolt holding the swingarm to the frame is firmly stuck in place

I’ve got a block of soft wood under the other side of the bolt with a hole just large enough for the bolt to go into. I’ve got a small metal bar wide enough to sit flat on the bolt on this side and I’m hitting it really quite hard with a mallet but to no avail. Next up I will of course try a rock but apart from that has anyone any other ideas?

I’m wondering if having the wood under the other side of the rear triangle is the correct place for it as the bolt is probably stuck in the frame and there is a bit of play between the frame and triangle

The bolt turns ok so it is probably jammed to the bearings which are in the frame but can still turn.

I’m being dumb here, sorry.
So the anodised blue head of that bolt has to go through the frame?

Never had any luck with a mallet, too soft to provide enough of a shock. If you can fit a smaller bolt in the hole to prevent damage, and hit it with a lump hammer, it’ll probably do the job.

easy tiger. Cup of tea and wait for someone who has done this or sleep on it. Lots to go very wrong there with the carbon.

My 2p is something is very wrong. That blue but us never going to go through frame. Pic of other side would help.

So the anodised blue head of that bolt has to go through the frame?

Yes, that’s exactly what has to happen.  Normally there is a lozenge shaped nut there but I’ve already removed that

thought the cube bolts fell out themselves.

this your bolt set up?

https://www.cube.eu/fileadmin/2016/cubeworld/FAQ/Bearing_Sets_Lagersets_2016.pdf

https://www.google.com/search?q=cube+stereo+sl+bolt+removal+site:singletrackworld.com&sxsrf=AOaemvJJvOsmj3xaPm90J-NR_wkWStSvDg:1638101581304&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwip3u_2g7v0AhVGQkEAHY9YB8EQrQIoBHoECAUQBQ&biw=1536&bih=753&dpr=2.5

My 2p is something is very wrong. That blue but us never going to go through frame. Pic of other side would help.

But I LIKE hitting things with hammers 🙂

The bolt should be the bolt on the left of this picture but on my bike it is blue.  The head looks like the head of the bolt in the picture.  If I turn the head of the bolt on the other side then the thread on this side turns.  It really looks like it should just go straight through

thought the cube bolts fell out themselves.

this your bolt set up?

Yep thanks and I wish they would but it’s been too long since I last looked at them – my fault.  That’s exactly the doc I’m comparing against and everything else so far has matched.

apply a bit of heat, pour lots of boiling water over it and try again

no easy way to get heat to it as the bit I need to expand is inside the frame itself.  The idea is good though as I can get freezer spay inside the bold to shrink it slightly if needed.  I’ll add that to my list of backup methods.

At the moment considering just drilling it out and buying a new one or tapping the head on the other side to attach a puller of some sort.  I’ll wait and see if there is any more suggestions though

Might be enough to free any threadlock that’s holding it in. Worked for me previously on similar. It’s worth a boil of a kettle

Likely just the Alu axle corroded to the inner races of the bearings. Either break that bond chemically, or physically. The latter is more fun.

Might be enough to free any threadlock that’s holding it in.

Very good point.  Will try.  If threadlock got down the shaft that would cause a problem

Either break that bond chemically, or physically. The latter is more fun.

Oh yes.  Had the frame in a big vice now to try and press it out but it isn’t going.  Will fire some WD40 down now to see if that helps.  I do have a better anti-seize chemical but I’m not sure it is carbon safe.  I believe that WD40 is according to the internets.  I’ll try hot water first though

Copper/brass drift & a two lb hammer. As suggested, its probably the inner races corroded and frozen onto the swing arm spindle. A couple a brave pills & a big swing of the hammer will free that off.

A couple a brave pills & a big swing of the hammer will free that off.

That’s exactly where I started from and it hasn’t worked.  I’ve also stuck it in a vice a ‘pre-tensioned’ it and then hit it and nothing.  I think I’m paying the price for not taking them out more often

I’ll soak it overnight in solvent but if that doesn’t work the bolt is alloy so I’ll just drill it out.  Replacements seem available in stock for a not crazy price so I’m better doing that before I end up breaking something

edit: just checked and it is a Wickes 2.5lb hammer – 25% extra twattage but no result 🙁

Before you **** it with a hammer, try soaking it for a few days in coke. That eats rust for breakfast. Try enough coke in a bucket so you can sit the whole offending item in it.

Message ReggieGasket for advice?
He appears to have been where you are now and on here.

That’s exactly where I started from and it hasn’t worked. I’ve also stuck it in a vice a ‘pre-tensioned’ it and then hit it and nothing. I think I’m paying the price for not taking them out more often

I’ll soak it overnight in solvent but if that doesn’t work the bolt is alloy so I’ll just drill it out. Replacements seem available in stock for a not crazy price so I’m better doing that before I end up breaking something

edit: just checked and it is a Wickes 2.5lb hammer – 25% extra twattage but no result

Bu99er! That’s not off to an auspicious start then. Don’t know anything about the chemical/coke means of removal. Looks like the spindle has a centre hole already provided for such eventualities. Sequential drilling with progressively larger drill bits or you could make/buy a piloted drill which would keep your efforts bang centre of the spindle on the way through.

Sequential drilling with progressively larger drill bits

I think that is the way to go really.  If I try to do it in one go I risk getting into a mess when I get through the first bearing and what is left of the spindle is free to just flop around 🙁

Message ReggieGasket for advice?

Thanks for looking but that is a slightly different problem.  that’s for once the back end is off but I haven’t got that far yet – I’m still stuck getting the last bolt out so I can see the bearings 🙁

Likely just the Alu axle corroded to the inner races of the bearings. Either break that bond chemically, or physically. The latter is more fun.

Yup this IME. The corrosion on the inner races wedges the axel/bolt in, can be pretty solid if it’s both sides!

There is a way to get heat down a bolt by screwing another long bolt into the end of the stuck bolt and blow torching the extra long bolt, which is extended well past and out of the way of damaging the frame! The heat travels down the bolt and heats the stuck one in turn.

TBH in this situation I have got lucky and it’s eventually freed off with penetrative fluids and shocks/vibration from as many different angles/paths as possible.

I’m not sure heating the inner bolt helps as it will just expand and jam tighter I would have thought?

Edit: I do like that heating trick though. That’s getting added to armoury

I think I’m going to give it a couple of nights dripping wd40 in to see of that helps otherwise drill it is

Yes carry on as you are. Constantly spin and hit the bolt at both ends to get shocks down it from as may different paths as possible. Do this with a pool of fluid in the bolt hole so hopefully some slips past as you shock it. Once you get some lateral movement you can spray oil on and knock it back and forth till it frees off completely! You’re going to have to be very patient as it’s a carbon frame and you don’t want to destroy the bearing recesses by smashing **** out of it!

Different metals expand and contract at different rates that’s what breaks the bonds not the heat itself!

Another more extreme way of getting penetrative fluids in is to heat the metals then quench (squirt a shit load on when it’s red hot) with the penetrative oil. It’s a very smokey/not indoors experience but can work when things are really stuck.

My Titus did this. Ally axle welded to the bearings

I ended up cutting the bolt out in situ either side of the pivot point in the frame.

I then could wallop the old bearings out

New Axle. Loads of copper slip been fine.

Coke, plus gas and a bit of persuasion, if the swingarm is moving a lot, then I’d drill it out.

Manufacturers don’t use any form of anti seize during assembly, so the first time it all has to come apart it’s a hateful job. I’d be inclined to dump it on the shop you bought it from if it’s a relatively new bike.

Any update on how you got on with this @leffeboy

Any update on how you got on with this  @leffeboy

@Davesport – Oops, missed that, sorry, but back to post an update as it is always useful to know how this stuff end.  I did get it out in the end but not with chemicals.  Just lots of steps.  I had to drill it out, but to do that I had to get the swingarm off otherwise I would get a bearing trapped between the swingarm and the frame and it was never coming out.  So…

The bolt going all the way through is alloy so easy to drill.  It’s 10mm OD so I bought a new 9mm drill bit so I could drill through without touching the carbons bits if I went sideways a bit.  I used a drill press to keep things straight

First up an allen bit stuck in a vice at the bottom of the drill press (to stop the bolt rotating), frame in with the bolt head on the bit then drill through about 1 cm to free one side of the swingarm.  Bit of messing around with a pick to clean it up.

Then drill that same side of the bolt with a 4.8mm drill and tap it out to M5.  Stick an allen head bolt in.  This is to stop the main bolt spinning when I drill the other side

Flip the frame over, M5 bolt into allen bit in vice, drill the other side of the bolt about a cm.  Faff around a bit and the swing arm can be removed

Keep drilling the bolt another cm or so to go through the first bearing

Take it out of the drill press, jam a drift through the drilled out bearing into the bit of bolt left and whack it with a mallet.  The bolt was jammed into the bearing on the other side so it all came out

Flip the frame over and knock the other bearing out

And that’s it.  It took quite a bit of time to get everything set up but it worked fine and it’s all back together again and I promise not to leave it so long next time.

I hope

Good news. Bit of a nail-biter when stuff like this happens. Glad you’re sorted :o)

@leffeboy that is great methodical work. Well done

Ian

@leffeboy that is great methodical work. Well done

Thanks.  I might possibly have got off with putting the 9mm drill all the way through in the end but my fear was that if the bolt flopped to the side when I was half way through then there was no way to rescue it.  I might have over thought this a little but I was always able to see what would happen next.

You got it done with no damage to the frame, that’s all that matters.

I’m of the opinion main pivots need doing about every 1-1.5 years (to avoid being badly seized) for bikes ridden regularly, in all weathers, with small bearings and no additional sealing. That’s most bikes on the market bar a few! There are a few exceptions that have better sealing, less exposed linkages and larger good quality bearings.

IME the next bearings that wear out on four bar bikes like Cubes, Treks etc are next to the rear axel. In Cube’s case tiny bearings, which are usually doubled up each side, so four bearings that you need a blind puller for. The rest of the linkage bearings tend to last a lot longer!