Possible demise of CRC / Wiggle

Just from somebody else……

I wonder if that will now be Amazon in the medium to long term.  Chiggle were incredibly successful and effectively held market share from Amazon. In that respect maybe they were the lesser of two evils.

Do people also complain when Amazon change the price of products you’ve left in the basket overnight?

I assume if I’d left the basket as was and paid I’d have the brakes at the original price

That’s not been my experience. On several occasions I’ve gone back to the basket after a significant amount of time has passed to find a new price. Sometimes it costs them the sale, sometimes it doesn’t.

Andy – Amazon 1P, probably not. Amazon Marketplace or 3P, perhaps.

It’s often easy to forget on STW when we are surrounded by like minded bike geeks but the market for what we want vs the general cycling market is quite small and expensive to service. That’s interesting as a passion project but not very interesting to big business, hence the Tesco approach to bicycle retailing as personified by Wiggle has ultimately failed.

Do people also complain when Amazon change the price of products you’ve left in the basket overnight?

I once had a customer send me a spreadsheet adding up everything he’d bought over the last three years at full price, with another column detailing what we had cleared end of line or shop soiled models for, indicating how much we “owed” him, but did say he’d give half to charity 🤷🏻‍♂️

Has there ever been a business improved under private equity or venture capitalists?

In the earlier stages of a business or lower value range yes but there seems to be a theme among the later and larger VC ownerships. Brand values may build a business early on and they can fade away as the numbers take over. To be fair though that’s not specific to VC ownership …that’s just how it seems to me from the outside anyway, or working in a few companies through these stages of ownership.

Just from somebody else……

Merlin have been my go-to recently.

What is different is the inherent need for growth. A VC brings with it cripplingly high debt from day 1 (the original purchase cost) which drives a daily need for profit just to service that debt.

This is ultimately what has done for Wiggle as the financial guarantees necessary to service that debt have been removed. The parent that has been funding its child’s student loans and overdraft has suddenly decided not to.

Merlin have been my go-to recently.

Well, there goes the idea that we won’t be buying from German companies. Also, Merlin would be my first point of call, or perhaps Startfitness.

Brant that literally HAS to be someone on here. 100%.

Based in Germany, but before “you know what” I always priced up CRC vs Bike24 and some others. At one point it probably was about 50/50, and ironically the CRC parcels I’d often have dropped at the local parcel store, which was my LBS 😉
Since then I priced them up but even before having to factor in any customs etc. faff they couldn’t compete with the price of Bike24 and Bike-Components.

More recently, I have been double checking on Merlin before ordering, and very occasionally Sigma. So was interested to hear that Merlin were German now.

I do often crosscheck the prices on Amazon too, but for bike stuff I think I’ve only found 1 item that was cheaper and easier that way. Still much easier to shop on bike24/bike-components.

Similar for PC parts. Used to use Overclockers years ago, then CaseKing (who now own Overclockers) to shop and work out what to get, then check Amazon to see if there’s a better deal. Which for my last PC there was. But to do all the research to find what I want on Amazon is worse than trying to use the new CRC-Wiggle webshite.

Do people also complain when Amazon change the price of products you’ve left in the basket overnight?

Probably, but then I wasn’t complaining. I was just stating what had happened and it seeming odd for a shop that you would assume would be now wanting to make as many sales as possible?

I will buy what was in my basket from somewhere else now, no loss to me. Although I have bought a lot of stuff from Wiggle over the years I buy from wherever is best price as it is not like they are selling anything special is it.

I’ve cracked a bought some Vitus specific wheel and frame parts just in case – mech hangers, cable guides, hub end caps and the like.

Has there ever been a business improved under private equity or venture capitalists?

Probably not. They saddle the company with debt. They then act as lender to that company at extortionate rates. They usually want to be out in 5 years having made their money with no interest in the long term viability of the company.

So before I hit buy on a bike has anyone had issues with getting bikes/frames delivered yet?

I do often crosscheck the prices on Amazon too, but for bike stuff I think I’ve only found 1 item that was cheaper and easier that way.

Amazon’s labelling and filtering system is even worse than the new CRC one. It appears everything has to go through the same pro-forma with all fields needing completion regardless so you end up with things like tyres and lights being labelled as “unisex” and there also 2 fields about batteries:
batteries included – yes/no
batteries required – yes/no

Searching for tyres using the fields of gender and whether or not it has batteries included is really not helpful…

Also be wary of their stock, some of it is just badly described and several models old.
As a general rule, Amazon is a last resort for me on cycling stuff although I did once get a GPS unit from them which popped up on a flash sale. That was more need and urgency than anything – mine had broken the previous day and I needed one for an upcoming tour so it was a must-buy and it was way cheaper than anywhere else.

Venture capitalist =/= private equity.

They are two completely different types of investor with different business models.

Private equity use leveraged buyouts to amplify profits when they buy struggling businesses and restructure them.

Venture capitalists are interested in funding rapid growth of a business, ideally from a relatively early stage. They are focussed on not missing out on investing in the company that will grow explosively and accept that the vast majority of the rest of their investments will go to zero.

The V part is right Vampire.

Another gift from our American cousins!

The V part is right Vampire.

I’m pretty sure it’s for victory and a sign of rebellion against the lizard overlords

Lmao @kerley have you just outed yourself as @marko?

Anyhow,

I assume if I’d left the basket as was and paid I’d have the brakes at the original price and they would have some money in the bank. It just smacks of desperation and seems a bit underhand to me.

And as everyone else has pointed out that assumption is completely unreasonable. Those goods weren’t spoken for in any sense so it’s entirely reasonable for them to change the price if you fling a load of stuff in a basket and wait for a day to finish checking out.

So before I hit buy on a bike has anyone had issues with getting bikes/frames delivered yet?

@dirkpitt it’s only been a couple of business days, if that.

Missing the point again Squirrel. It was removing an item that triggered the price hike. Do you not understand that?

No, it’s you who doesn’t understand. Removing the item simply refreshed the price in the basket, browsers don’t always refresh cache so when you removed the item it did a proper update.

There is absolutely no scenario where CRC would have set dynamic pricing to trigger a price increase on item removal from a basket.

The new website is much more sensitive to increasing the price on things overnight. I have noticed it on well priced items and suspect its a sales rate driven algorythm. Thats irrespective of whether its in the basket or the local cache has been renewed or not.

I had a top in my basket at £10. It then went up to £20 so I didn’t bother, the next day it was back to £10! It is getting to be like planetx pricing….

I bet when plotted the prices resemble the graph of the rollercoaster that is my stocks and shares ISA

There is absolutely no scenario where CRC would have set dynamic pricing to trigger a price increase on item removal from a basket.

I’ve built systems where exactly this happens (travel). Ok not exactly, prices were senstive to all kinds of events, but they absolutely would be recalculated in response to user actions like adding or removing from baskets.

The CRC basket will show the price of the item when it was added to your basket, it doesn’t update with amended prices 

Marko, if you’d refreshed and the price had reduced would you have insisted on paying the original price?

I know absolutely bubkiss about mountain bikes these days, but have been toying with idea of getting something for a winter South downs bike. Are those 1/2 price Nukeproofs worth a punt? 2k for carbon and XT looks good to my uneducated eyes.

I’m not sure what is going on, but the items I ordered early this morning have already been shipped.

I  didn’t get this level of service when they were solvent!

I’ve built systems where exactly this happens (travel). Ok not exactly, prices were senstive to all kinds of events, but they absolutely would be recalculated in response to user actions like adding or removing from baskets.

Travel industry is a very different business model where often the retailer is effectively purchasing from (sometimes multiple) third parties at the time of booking (who are continually updating their prices in real time). If prices are updated during the customer journey, it’s generally done to protect themselves from selling at a loss. I imagine it’s very unlikely CRC would, or would have any need to, do this. No credible marketing department would entertain it (I’ve worked on systems that would occasionally sell at a loss because it was believed it would be regained in customer satisfaction).

I’ve built systems where exactly this happens (travel). Ok not exactly, prices were senstive to all kinds of events, but they absolutely would be recalculated in response to user actions like adding or removing from baskets.

Yeah airlines do that based on instantaneous demand as did Thomas Cook. But the important point is that the price increases as the number of users add the package to their basket. If it goes idle and nobody buys then the price drops again.

None of that is anything to do with someone adding a load of stuff to a basket then being surprised that the price has changed 24h later and the company won’t honour the old one.

if you’d refreshed and the price had reduced would you have insisted on paying the original price?

Oh, if I guess right do I get a prize?

Oh, if I guess right do I get a prize?

Yes, but if you don’t guess soon it won’t be the same prize.

I’m not sure what is going on, but the items I ordered early this morning have already been shipped.
I  didn’t get this level of service when they were solvent!

The stuff I ordered lunchtime yesterday arrived this afternoon! It’s like the good old days.

Yes, but if you don’t guess soon it won’t be the same prize.

I don’t think our basket-bothering friend would be too bothered about the prize if the suggestion they got a BOGOF on usernames is right…

Amazon has changed prices multiple times a day for me. It’s all smart algorithms I don’t understand but I do understand it’s part of e commerce. Live and learn.

Well I’m fully aware that the price can change from one day to the next, even from AM to PM and items can sell out quick in a certain colour or size so when I see a bargain I pounce on it, put it in the basket and bloody well buy it, any delay is about 10 minutes while I look for something else to add or not. Leaving an item thats going cheap sitting in the basket for any decent amount of time is foolish.

What @solarider said…

But don’t wish to be the bearer of bad news, Sigma Sports ain’t exactly immune right now either… Heavy discounting of own brand parts is usually endemic of a shortage of capital in my experience, sadly…

But the important point is that the price increases as the number of users add the package to their basket. If it goes idle and nobody buys then the price drops again.

Nope, nothing like that simple, the event (removal from basket) triggers price recalculation, which is a mad complex often non deterministic algo. Maybe the price after is more, maybe its less. This sort of thing is rife across all kinds of ecommerce platforms now, not just the preserve of airlines. You can thank Uber. Oh, and personalised pricing (bob will pay £10, Jenny will be willing to pay £15) is being worked on too. Legally dubious in europe at least, but its a thing people (amazon) are working on.

Any chance this thread could be brought back on track and the folk arguing over the price of a basket changing could start a different thread?