Paypal really are a law unto themselves aren't they?

From the new Ts&Cs today:

You acknowledge and agree that a payment transaction is completed and received by you even if it becomes subject to a Reversal, Chargeback. Claim, Reserve or hold. When you receive a payment, you are liable to PayPal for the full amount of the payment plus any costs that we incur and any Fees if the payment is later invalidated for any reason. In addition to any other liability, if there is a Reversal, or if you lose a Chargeback or Claim and you are not entitled to a payment under the Seller Protection Programme, you will owe PayPal an amount equal to the Reversal, Chargeback or Claim and our Fees per Schedule 1 (including a Chargeback Fee if applicable) and PayPal will debit your Balance to recover such an amount.

So, basically, if someone sends you £10, you effectively owe Paypal £10 until some unknown time in the future, just in case Paypal decide to give them it back (oh, and Paypal might charge you for the privilege).

Yes, I know no-one is forced to use it, but in the same way no-one is forced to use a bank, for instance.

Bank Ts&Cs allow them to reverse payments…

Seems like they/eBay always con you on currency conversions too.

When you buy an international item, they give the price in USD etc. and the price in pounds. You always end up paying more than the price displayed in pounds. Not once has it came in the same or less than their so called estimate.

They must cream a lot of money doing this alone when you consider how many payments they process???

Bank Ts&Cs allow them to reverse payments…

PayPal is a bank, so they’ll be following the same standards.

Isn’t the issue the liability to PayPal?
Or is that just effectively saying that if the payee sends £300, your liable for that, including fees?

Still bad that you’d have to refund fee’s as well though!

Been using Paypal for over 10 years and absolutely love it, solves the whole trust issue with selling/buying stuff over the web.

PayPal is a bank, so they’ll be following the same standards.

Is it? It never used to be, so they could get away with all sorts of things that banks couldn’t do; has it changed now?

Is it? It never used to be, so they could get away with all sorts of things that banks couldn’t do; has it changed now?

That’s what they told my son when he phoned about an issue he was having, the words used were ‘PayPal is a bank…’

Paypal is a bank registered in Luxembourg. Who have the most secretive and lax banking regulations in the EU…

https://register.fca.org.uk/ShPo_FirmDetailsPage?id=001b000000Mg3m1AAB

Years ago, i sold a vintage camera to a lady in America via eBay/ PayPal. This was after 800 mostly ok sales. About three weeks after she paid, PP suddenly sucked the money out of my bank account and froze my PP account for good measure, meaning I couldn’t make or receive any payments.

After about a month of emails (this was before the days of them letting you phone them) they finally said the lady had paid with a maxed out creddly card or some such. I had to fight tooth and nail to get my account reinstated and reclaim the cash, minus a load of stoopid charges.

They’ve since tried to royally screw me on a few other occasions so yes, I would say they are a law unto themselves.

PayPal is a bank, so they’ll be following the same standards.

Like other people on this thread I wasn’t aware Paypal had officially become a bank either. But them only being registered in Luxembourg doesn’t fill me with confidence that if I ever needed to ask the ombudsman to investigate they’d get anywhere.

They’ve since tried to royally screw me on a few other occasions so yes, I would say they are a law unto themselves.

Although you’ve obviously decided the occasional aggro is worth it for the service they provide!

The other side of the coin is that, as a buyer, I 100% trust that I’ll be able to recover my money from an unscrupulous seller if necessary. I’m sure others think the same way, no doubt their ability to “do what they like” is why so many buyers trust them & why they’re so successful.

After about a month of emails (this was before the days of them letting you phone them) they finally said the lady had paid with a maxed out creddly card or some such.

In your camera example, playing Devil’s advocate, the fault lies with you/eBay/the credit card company for allowing a dodgy transaction. No reason PayPal should be left to foot the bill.

they are a payment service provider – as this gets them out of the regulations

so if anything threatens the service, you owe them

1.1 PayPal is only a Payment Service Provider. PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, S.C.A. (R.C.S. Luxembourg B 118 349) is duly licensed as a Luxembourg credit institution in the sense of Article 2 of the law of 5 April 1993 on the financial sector as amended (the “Law”) and is under the prudential supervision of the Luxembourg supervisory authority, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier.

PayPal’s main business is the issuance of E-money and the provision of services closely related to the issuance of E-money. A description of the main characteristics of the PayPal Service is set out in the Key Payment and Service Information document which is accessible via the Legal Agreements link of each page of the PayPal website(s). Since the service is limited to E-money, which does not qualify as a deposit or an investment service in the sense of the Law, you are not protected by the Luxembourg deposit guarantee schemes provided by the Association pour la Garantie des Dépôts Luxembourg (AGDL).