Outside lane closed 1km ahead… (dual carriageway content)

Do you join the shortest queue, or do you join the longest queue and then stand there complaining about all the “queue jumpers” going to the other doors?

I join the shortest queue. But if I’m in a queue, and for some reason one of the doors has to be closed and the organisers ask two queues to merge, I merge when I’m asked, from where I am in the queue. I don’t wait for everybody else to merge and then try to merge from the front of the empty queue.

To clarify my case, I’m not supporting Pondo’s claim to be entitled to block the lane. I’m just frustrated by the lack of clarity in the code and the signage, that means that people like me, who have been brought up to avoid aggravating other people, end up being aggravated. Posters here say “merge at the cones” but that’s only their opinion; it’s not obvious to me, because merging in flowing traffic works better. A single line of merged traffic at 50mph could go through the roadworks at that speed, but it never happens. Opinions will always differ, we need official clarity.

Ambiguous signage, yesterday.

This is an interesting read. It’s a US site so THC rules don’t apply, but it explains why the “best” way of merging is to merge early in light traffic and at the pinch point when there’s congestion.

Clicky.

This is an interesting read.

It will be an interesting misread shortly, once pondo has decided to rewrite it to suit what he wants it to say, as he did earlier with THC rule 169 and others.

Ambiguous signage, yesterday.

This is an interesting read.

Agreed. A few signs like those US ones would avoid a lot of conflict; use both lanes here, then merge here.

Agreed. But really, it needs fixing with education rather than signage, if only because whilst signage is useful for installations such as roadworks it’s less practical when emergency lane closures occur.

Another argument for having a ‘motorway’ portion of the driving test I suppose.

Right, I was going to suggest I sometimes do what pondo does, but given all the confusion over what he is actually doing, I won’t say that.

What I have done approaching a merge is been in the right hand lane (almost always the case, because I’m overtaking people who are slowing down in the left lane before it becomes a proper “queue”). Then when I get to the point where the left lane is solid I’ll slow down to the same speed it is moving rather than whiz straight to the front. Then I will merge in turn at the point I am supposed to.

So let’s address some of the points on the other side:
I’m not doing this because I’m seething with rage over people “jumping the queue” – I’m doing it because I know the correct way to merge and want to do that, but feel uncomfortable about gaining an advantage from doing so – the people in the left lane might be idiots, but they’re also still people, and I’d rather not leave them seething with rage when I don’t have to. What’s more, doing this encourages the correct behaviour as it creates a merge at the front of the queue between two lines moving at the same speed – if you whizz past in the right lane then there is a speed differential approaching the merge point and the merge doesn’t quite work in the way it should – not only that but when you do this the people in the left lane are also happy for you to merge rather than seething with rage, so you get a gap to merge into and it all happens smoothly rather than being a mess of people closing up the gaps. Because whatever the theory is of how it is supposed to work, people will be arses if you whizz up the right and it won’t work properly.

Just in case it isn’t clear (as some people seem confused over this point) I’m not choosing my own merge location, quite the opposite.

Regarding the HC:
rule 134 – completely complying with that
rule 133 – only changing lanes at the merge point, so completely complying with that rule
rule 138 – so I should return to the left lane because I’m not overtaking? You’re suggesting I should merge early? 😯
rule 167 – I’m not forcing another road user to swerve or slow down, that rule clearly isn’t intended to apply here
rule 169 – see comment on rule 138, so in order to comply with that if you’re taking it literally to apply to this situation then I should merge early? 😯

In case it’s not clear from the start of my description, I’m also talking about the vast majority of such situations I encounter, roadworks or similar on a motorway or DC, where there are no junctions between the point traffic starts queuing and the obstruction. So let’s address this one:

Yep, both motorways will flow the same, as the limit is the speed at which traffic moves through the obstruction. How quickly you get to the back of the queue doesn’t make any difference at all to how quickly you get to the end of the motorway – if you get there faster you’ll just queue for longer.

If we’re talking about the completely different situation where traffic is backing across junctions and roundabouts because of incorrect queueing then I will always do everything I can to improve the throughput of those junctions by using all available lanes at the highest appropriate speed (I can think of a couple of locations where I’ll use the right hand lane to improve the throughput of a bottleneck junction despite that not being the correct lane for the direction I’m going because it is always possible to move into the correct lane later without obstructing or inconveniencing anybody else).

he left lane because I’m not overtaking? You’re suggesting I should merge

No. You should travel at a speed relevant to the lane you are in, not try and match the speed of another (irrelevant) lane

rule 169 – see comment on rule 138, so in order to comply with that if you’re taking it literally to apply to this situation then I should merge early?

Same as above.

Use the (unobstructed) lane you are in to gauge your speed.

You are holding up a lane of traffic by driving slower than you need to (that’s why there are loads of cars behind you wanting to get past)

How you can claim you aren’t is really quite strange.

Slower than I need to? So you know what speed I need to drive? If I’m doing 40 on a NSL single carriageway should I also speed up because I don’t need to drive that slowly?

Yep, both motorways will flow the same

sounds like you’ve just negated the need for three lane highways. You will save the road builders a fortune.

If there were sections of roadworks immediately before every junction on every motorway (it only seems like that is the case) then you might have a point.

It’s got nothing to do with junctions. You have a length of unrestricted motorway, a length of queue and a length of restriction. You make the restricted bit longer and consequently the unrestricted bit shorter. That is slower on average.

so I should return to the left lane because I’m not overtaking

yes. Rule 137 and 138 are pretty clear on this. Nothing to do with merging early, just using the lanes as they are designed.

Just in case we have different copies this is my reference:

137
On a two-lane dual carriageway you should stay in the left-hand lane. Use the right-hand lane for overtaking or turning right. After overtaking, move back to the left-hand lane when it is safe to do so.

138
On a three-lane dual carriageway, you may use the middle lane or the right-hand lane to overtake but return to the middle and then the left-hand lane when it is safe

should I also speed up because I don’t need to drive that slowly?

Yes,if conditions permit and you’re slowing traffic down, I don’t see you having the self awareness to pull over and let other traffic pass. But I’m sure you’ll have some bizarre justification for doing so.
Are people really trying to defend poor driving.
This is an incredibly eye opening thread and it’s interesting to see how blind people are at their poor driving and the selfishness when interpreting the Highway Code.
Tartan rug sales must be doing well.
To both the defenders of this selfish act, I ask your views on middle lane hoggers.

So you’re now suggesting that if I moved left I wouldn’t be merging? By definition we don’t have the normal free flowing conditions for which those rules are clearly intended (other rules mention things changing in congested conditions).

Yes,if conditions permit and you’re slowing traffic down, I don’t see you having the self awareness to pull over and let other traffic pass.
[/quote]

What if there is nowhere to pull over and let other traffic past? I should speed up?

I’m loving the ad-homs from one side of this BTW. Maybe you can explain why it is selfish to attempt to help it to work as it is supposed to, is everybody just ignoring that driving like this helps with that far more than whizzing past?

Maybe you can explain why it is selfish to attempt to help it to work as it is supposed to

It isn’t. You aren’t doing that though. Helping it to work as it should would be driving as you should in this scenario: Use both lanes up to the merge point then merge in turn. Stopping the people that are trying to do this while helping the people that aren’t isn’t really helping.

So you’re now suggesting that if I moved left I wouldn’t be merging?

No I’m not. Moving back into the left lane is always merging. It is just irrelevant in this case. Either use the right lane and overtake or pull into the left lane.

Blocking free flowing traffic to satisfy your own interperation of the Highway Code and agenda is incredibly selfish, to then try and justify it by ignoring other codes is plain ridiculous.
Follow the Highway Code and encourage the people who don’t merge correctly at the pinch point to do so. Don’t take things into your own hands and try and justify it.
The number of people who drive nose to tail refusing to allow someone to merge as the Highweay Code dictates, these are the ones whjo need your holier than thou lectures, not the people who are being penalised by poor driving and drivers.
If these people allowed others to merge correctly, you wouldn’t have to become your own little police force.
Ad hom? Where’s the ad hom? Drivers who drive inconsiderately are selfish. If you put yourself into this category of driver…

What if there is nowhere to pull over and let other traffic past? I should speed up?

Short answer, yes. Or reconsider your ability to drive safely.

sharkbait – Member
Why do people do that?

😆 Just started to read this thread so miss all comments apart from OP’s.

Why? Because they are pissed that you have over taken them by jumping queue. They cannot comprehend that the filter start nearer to the location …

I would do the same as you but then I know the local driving norm so I tend to join them in the queue… enter Rome all that …

edit: need to read all the comments tonight for entertainment … 😆

What I always find amusing are the merges where it’s the inside lane that actually closed. All those who have waited in the inside lane now found themselves having to merge right…what would Pongo do here?

Which is exactly what I am doing – I’m still not sure why people are so confused by this. Neither am I stopping anybody else from doing so – they can also drive up to the correct merge point and merge in turn. Have you really never experienced people in the left lane attempting to block you from merging by closing up the gaps? IME if you do as I suggest this is never a problem, so yes I am making it work better by getting rid of some of the aggravation. You really aren’t going to educate anybody by whizzing up the right lane – at least doing this a few drivers get to see it working properly in a calm environment.

Moving back into the left lane is always merging. It is just irrelevant in this case.

Oh, so I would be merging early – I’m not going to do that because I know how it is supposed to work and I’m going to merge at the correct point. Why is it irrelevant?

Which bit of the HC am I misinterpreting or ignoring? More to the point, given I get no personal advantage, how can I possibly be being selfish? There seems to be a certain amount of confusion over what my options are here, given I started off in the right lane and want to merge at the right point.

Follow the Highway Code and encourage the people who don’t merge correctly at the pinch point to do so.

Is exactly what I’m trying to do – what are you doing to encourage people to merge correctly?

The number of people who drive nose to tail refusing to allow someone to merge as the Highweay Code dictates, these are the ones whjo need your holier than thou lectures, not the people who are being penalised by poor driving and drivers. If these people allowed others to merge correctly, you wouldn’t have to become your own little police force.

Not lecturing anybody here. Though strangely enough, as I’ve just pointed out it does seem to stop people driving nose to tail preventing merging – what are you doing which changes people’s behaviour like that?

All these people with opinions on the way other people should drive with their own “punishments” for drivers who don’t comply with their home-grown rules. Oh dear.

I drove my French-registered van around the UK for a week sticking to 50 in national speed limit areas with no speed limit shown. I pulled over to let the queues of cars behind overtake a few times but the horn blowing, revving engines, raised fists and Vs was too entertaining to pass up.

More to the point, given I get no personal advantage, how can I possibly be being selfish?

Because selfishness is not always about personal advantage, it’s also not showing consideration for others but that personal gain could simply be
pleasure.
Anyway, you keep on doing what you do and as long as you’re happy doing it, who are we to complain?

I pulled over to let the queues of cars behind overtake a few times but the horn blowing, revving engines, raised fists and Vs was too entertaining to pass up.[\i]

Is there more to it than that? I normally drive my van at 50mph and never get that. However, add the horse trailer and at the same speed I am consistently overtaken!

Jersey use filtering at junctions and some roundabouts, it seems to work over there for the locals

Is there more to it than that?

No, the mad cow thing which resulted in us getting lots of abuse just because of the French plates had long gone. The problem seemed to be doing 50 which I put down to some drivers being ignorant of the van speed limit.

I was quite impressed to see on the roadworks on the A30 dual in Cornwall signs that read “Use both lanes until merge”. And then at the merge ‘Merge in turn’ signs.

As was I. When driving down to St Ives 2 weeks ago everyone heeded the signs and the merging at the cones was (nearly) text book.

However, driving back up today, as we approached the same roadworks a douchecanoe in a red Beemer took it upon himself to ensure no-one could get past him in the outside lane – I tried going up on the verge to go past him just to see how righteous he was and he tried to ram me. Just laughed at him in his mirror and pulled in behind him. No doubt he is basking in the glory of “winning”.

Some people do seem to go out of their way to get wound up about things.

No winners I can see there.

This, my fellow cyclists, is STW at it’s best!! Keep it going folks!

The problem seemed to be doing 50 which I put down to some drivers being ignorant of the van speed limit.

Doubt it. Or at least, I’ve never experienced what you describe.

And I do roughly twelve hundred miles a week in a van, mostly on national speed limit roads, sticking to the 50 limit

I’ve never pulled over once to let “queues of cars” past.

Never once had “horn blowing, revving engines, raised fists and Vs” as a result either.

190 thousand miles in 3 years and no issues

Must be you 😉

I regularly drive a can and stick to the 50mph also. I’ve yet to some across these impatient and angry car drivers. I will, however, make an effort to let cars past whenever I have the opportunity to do so without significantly impacting my own progress.

HGV drivers can do one though.

The queue I picked up through the Wyre forest out of Kiderminster was continuous as far as I could see behind which was not surprising traveling 10mph below the car limit with few overtaking possibilities and lots of commuters heading home, Neal.

I’ll put the behaviour down to the plates then.

Out of interest, aracer, how does your strategy deal with traffic which is stationary in the left lane? Do you just drop anchor in the outside lane alongside another stationary vehicle?

I reckon I’d abandon my principles and slowly make my way to the front of the right lane. In such a situation then if I drive to the front the queues are going to form in both lanes as nobody can merge early anyway, and the proper merging might just happen when it all starts moving. Not something I’ve experienced when I’ve done that (I’m guessing that in those circumstances all lanes do fill up anyway, can’t really remember what has happened), so I can’t say what I have done.

I’d put it down to the latter. I’ve cycled not too far from there at going home time (I’d suspect some drivers were coming from Kiddy) and a significant proportion of drivers were complete arseholes.

In an ideal world, there wouldn’t be an ’empty lane’ for ‘queue jumpers’ to drive down as everyone would be using both lanes efficiently and merging in turn (like a zipper) at the point where one lane becomes 2.

It takes people with a bit of common sense, paying attention to what is happening to traffic in front of them and also being aware of road signs to make this a reality though.