So I’ve done well over 900 miles on the brakes now, on my Genesis Croix de Fer 10.
They’re, honestly, the worst brakes I think I’ve ever owned, including the cantis I had in 1991.
No bite, no power, useless. I’ve faffed and fiddled with them and improved them a bit but it’s not made a huge difference. The bike is listed as having ” Jagwire KEB-SL Compression-less Outer” and they’re plenty firm enough at the lever.
1) Am I the only one who thinks they’re crap?
2) Will new pads help?
3) Are the Hy-Rds any better?

I have the spykes on my longitude, which are essentially the same. The stock pads are crap. Other than that I find them OK for cable discs.

Mine had more than enough power to throw me over the bars if I’d been daft enough to keep pulling the brake lever. I only ever used the standard pads.

Mine are great. They’ve had excellent reviews in the industry press.

2) Will new pads help?

The standard pads are a bit rubbish and evaporate in the wet, so maybe. I found mine a bit meh until I fitted compressionless housing, since then they’ve been ace. Someone talked about the inner routing to the clamp on the caliber, but maybe that was you… Anyway, as a bunch of folk above have said, they work pretty well for me. If the pads have lasted 900 miles, maybe they’re glazed?

Any recommendations on replacement pads for them?

Are the Hy-Rds any better?

Yes but overkill for most application [ including mine]and you need to be careful to not lock them up

Hy-Rd’s are awesome. Plenty of power, but also plenty of modulation too. Can highly recommend them.

Not used the Spyre’s to compare though I’m afraid.

I found mine a bit meh until I fitted compressionless housing,

Already go that. Bike came with it (See OP)

Someone talked about the inner routing to the clamp on the caliber, but maybe that was you…

It was me. That improved the feel (Very wooden with the cable in the wrong place…) and helped a bit with the power, but not much to be fair.

Yes but overkill for most application

I’ve never found any brake to be overkill. Not ever.

If the pads have lasted 900 miles, maybe they’re glazed?

Including 300 miles round Belgium…! I might have braked twice in 5 days! 😉
I use it for commuting, there’s not much braking involved but I do go down one big hill and there’s cars about…. I had a knock the other day when I simply couldn’t stop even though I’d seen the car pull out in front of me. On my Inbred tourer with Deore hydraulics I’d have stopped with room to spare. They’re so bad I don’t think they’re safe TBH.

I can lock the rear if I pull really hard, but not the front. I’m gonna try a bigger disc up front and a change of pads I think

To be fair, I’m not a lightweight, and nor is the bike… Plus it’s always got one pannier full at least on it. But I’ve used BB5s and I can pull stoppies on them, and the cheap Shimano callipers are great too, as are Hayes cable discs.

I’d say mine are on a par with BB7s. If I were you, I’d change the pads and see if that helps. The stock ones are a bit rubbish. I killed mine in a couple of wet rides. Maybe the OE outer isn’t actually compressionless? It wouldn’t be the first time the spec sheet didn’t match the actual spec.

Have fun 🙂

I’ve Just chucked some new pads in. Shimano B01S
We shall see….

I bought your brother’s off him and have had no problems at all, it’s really quite steep around here and I weigh about 14.5 stone. (180 front disc)

I haven’t used them in the wet though, so will be watching this to see which replacement pads come out on top.

That’s interesting vs. the BB7s – on my Peregrine, the BB7 is as tight as I can handle, the rear is a bit meh but I can still – just – lock up the rear, just feels a bit fluffy getting there. I know with BB7s there’s the black art of getting the adjustment just so (and varying versions of how to do it) plus return springs and so on.

Is there a similar cottage industry built up yet round the folk lore for TRPs ?

Is there a similar cottage industry built up yet round the folk lore for TRPs ?

Not really. Most people seem to find them really easy to set up – compressionless housing seems to be a good call and maybe new pads, but they’re a lot less faff than the BB7 thanks to both pistons moving.

I’ve always maintained that when there’s a problem with cable brakes, it usually turns out to be the cable first, followed sometimes by the brake lever.

This thread has got me thinking we need a way to measure how well the callipers work.

My thoughts are that a dial gauge on the calliper would show how much, if any flex, there was in the calliper when it was under pressure. It would give a way to compare the callipers between hydraulic and cable too.

BB7s are dead easy to set up if you’re not having to work around the problem of outer cable compression which wastes a lot of lever movement before your brakes become effective.

I changed to avid discs as they’re better than the Tektro oe ones.

Absolutely no problems with mine and very happy having swapped from bb7s . Someone else I know who I trust to set them up right could never get his to work, like PP. Maybe there are some duff sets?

I will add that prior to setup I had read somewhere that the adjusters on the caliper were not worth bothering with so I just made sure they were wound out, clamped up the brake lever, tightened the caliper bolts and cable and then used the barrel adjuster to get them spot on.

Maybe the OE outer isn’t actually compressionless? It wouldn’t be the first time the spec sheet didn’t match the actual spec.

To be honest I’m suspecting that myself. It’s just that I’ve covered most of the exposed outer with heat shrink tubing to tidy my Dynamo wiring up, so it’s hard to check!

duntstick – Member
I will add that prior to setup I had read somewhere that the adjusters on the caliper were not worth bothering with…

They are. 🙂

This was the review

duntstick – Member
This was the review

I wasn’t aware of a problem with the adjusters unwinding. My TRP brakes haven’t had enough use yet.

I’m not sure there’s a simple answer to that problem except more threadlock.

BWD – The OE outer is, as you thought and I’d begun to suspect, just Shimano M-System standard stuff. I’ll change it!

Wasn’t impressed with Spyre’s.

Hy-Rd’s on the other hand are ace, especially once the (unless dry) stock pads were changed and compressionless outers added.

BWD – The OE outer is, as you thought and I’d begun to suspect, just Shimano M-System standard stuff. I’ll change it!

Cool, hopefully that’ll improve them.

I think you are pinning too much hope of the compressionless outer being the cure.
Compressionless housing is only marginally better at best.

If you can’t even lock your wheels it suggests a bigger problem somewhere that won’t be cured by a cable swap[ unless there is something seriously wrong with your cables…

Compressionless housing is only marginally better at best.

Not IME .
Changed the outers on a road bike to yokozunas and it went from sponge bob slow stops,to skids and stoppies.

kerley – Member
I think you are pinning too much hope of the compressionless outer being the cure.
Compressionless housing is only marginally better at best.

I was surprised at how much difference it made along with aftermarket pads. That doesn’t of course mean that it’ll solve PP’s issues, but it was quite a lot more than ‘marginally better’ ime.

If you google Spyres and compressionless housing, quite a few users come up saying that it makes a real difference and TRP themselves recommend using it.

Before I fitted it, I thought it would only make a minor difference, but it seems to improve power, feel and bite point quite significantly, though of course YMMV. What happened when you fitted it to your Spyres?

I’d also look at the ends of the outers and make sure they’re square, and at the cable ferrules. aware of what PP does for a living I imagine he’s checked all that…
I use jagwire and i found even with these that when you oick the outers out of their ferrules they have strands sticking out of them at funny angles and lengths, despite decent quality ally ferrules ( rather than plastic ones, which i wouldn’t even use on gear cables ), so i just expect to pull the inners and re-prepare the outer ends after some use anyway, and regard it as part of the bedding in process.

I think you are pinning too much hope of the compressionless outer being the cure.
Compressionless housing is only marginally better at best.

If you can’t even lock your wheels it suggests a bigger problem somewhere that won’t be cured by a cable swap[ unless there is something seriously wrong with your cables…

I found it made a huge difference to my Shimano 105 callipers. Well worth trying.

I used the the Selcof stuff from PX when it was a tenner a set:-
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/BSSFXBCK/selcof-xtrastrong-brake-cable-kit

Okay, as you were.

Seems to be just me that found the difference with compressionless marginal.

Maybe because my non compressionless cables were installed very well (square off ends etc,.) but quite honestly the main difference was that the Jagwires looked a lot better!

My brakes have worked great regardless of the cables used.

as a guide: if your disc brakes aren’t awesome, you’ve got oil on them.

even cable-discs.

even crap cable-discs.

clean them properly, and try again.

try not to leave your bike in a place where it’ll get ‘misted’ in gt85.

aware of what PP does for a living I imagine he’s checked all that…

😀 Oh yeah.
Personally I reckon I need a bigger front disc as well. I just like silly powerful braking. I’ve never found a brake to be too good!
I also think it’s the intrinsic design of drop bar levers, meaning you pull near the pivot point most of the time, rather than the end of the lever.

Think it depends whether you ride mostly on the hoods or on the drops Pete. I think anchor like performance is always going to be compromised braking from the hoods compared to on the drops.

I really like mine on my GT Grade, very comparable to my old BB7’s cant compare to raw power of hydraulics though.

Is it perhaps the routing? GT have made quite an effort to remove any bends from the outers on my frame..

Think it depends whether you ride mostly on the hoods or on the drops Pete. I think anchor like performance is always going to be compromised braking from the hoods compared to on the drops.

ahh yes I ride a lot on the drops when off-road so that will make a hell of a difference!

Think it depends whether you ride mostly on the hoods or on the drops Pete. I think anchor like performance is always going to be compromised braking from the hoods compared to on the drops.

Oh yeah, for sure.
It’s really just that I’ve tried virtually every single combination of drop bar disc brakes you can buy right now and mine aren’t as good as they could be.
I’m probably being too picky now. All I do is commute on the bloody thing!
They’re a lot better than when the bike was new though
This is why my mythical ideal tourer/commuter has flat bars and MTB hydraulics! 🙂

PeterPoddy – Member

BWD – The OE outer is, as you thought and I’d begun to suspect, just Shimano M-System standard stuff. I’ll change it!

Checked my Genesis CDA outers after this as they are specced as Jagwire Compressionless. Mine definitely are the Jagwire as specced.

I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the power and feel of the Spyres (only previous recent braking experience is MTB hydro discs with 180mm rotors).

I just replaced my mechanical calipers with these.

Night and day better, thoroughly recommend them

Got HyRds on the front and Spyres on the back of 2 bikes and find them good on balance. Don’t think they’re any better or worse than BB7s, just a whole lot easier to set up and fairly fettle-free, also better in terms of pannier clearance. Personally don’t think they’re any better than the V-brakes I’ve got except in the wet.

Had trouble with judder on the front brake for a while but copper grease and probably something else cured it mostly.

Also found it difficult to find the right pads. Last lot were squealy horrible. New kevlar ones seem ok so far……