Osbourne says no to currency union.

What proportion of the Scottish population is foreign compared to that of England?

All the sassenachs living up there for starters.

……my exact words were “Scots only dislike Cameron because he sounds so English that you can’t bare it”………… Blair was born in Scotland he is your I am afraid whether you like it or not.

And whether you like it or not Tony Blair sounds every bit as English as David Cameron.

So if as you claim the only reason why Scots dislike Cameron is because he sounds so English, then they must dislike Blair in equal measures.

I think you’ll find that the real reason Scots don’t like Cameron is because he is a Tory. After all Scots don’t like even Scottish Tories. And Cameron’s very Scottish name doesn’t seem to help him.

fasternotfatter – Member
Hey duckman I am merely pointing out the casually racist attitude displayed by a lot of Scots towards English people.

Of course, that only works one way doesn’t it? The English would never treat scots/welsh/Irish with disdain, would they?.

It does only work one way and that is because of the air of superiority that all English people have. On the other hand it could be a feeling of inferiority that some Scots feel around the English.

On the other hand it could be a feeling of inferiority that some Scots feel around the English.

Which Scots would that be then? Alastair Darling? George Robertson?

I think you’ll find that the real reason Scots don’t like Cameron is because he is a Tory. After all Scots don’t like even Scottish Tories. And Cameron’s very Scottish name doesn’t seem to help him.

Yup. It’s not because he’s English, it’s not because of his accent, it’s because he’s a ****.

Slightly clunky statement konabunny, but I know what you mean

How is it clunky?

All the sassenachs living up there for starters

The majority of Scots are sassenachs.

The majority of Scots are sassenachs

Sassenach means english so you are saying the majority of scots are english?

Sassenach means english so you are saying the majority of scots are english?

I think the majority are Polish nowadays.

fasternotfatter – Member
It does only work one way and that is because of the air of superiority that all English people have. On the other hand it could be a feeling of inferiority that some Scots feel around the English.

POSTED 5 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Who said all English have an air of superiority then? It wasn’t me. And in the same post that you said abuse only goes one way… 🙄

Oh (H)ECK!

(Tannoy)- Teamhurtmore to the forum, THM to the forum!-(tannoy)

So it’s true, UKiP and SNP leaders are the same.

Personally it’s time we put this silly English and Scottish tiff to one side and got back to the burning issue that is Freedom for Yorkshire. This will of course include any who speaks Yorkshire but is unfortunately living outside the soon to be independent Yorkshire.

Sassenach means english so you are saying the majority of scots are english?

It means lowlander/Anglophone, you pleb.

kona. I meant to say your question rather than statement. Was not attempting to imply anything, the question was valid, just using ‘foreign’ seemed a bit ambiguous. (Would this include Irish nationals for example).

Interesting hearing about the Salmond/Putin reports. Not sure exactly what he admires, and also the context, however the mainstream press has not made a big fuss it seems, with opposition critics saying his comments were simply ill advised and poorly timed.
Would be interesting to see how many would react if the shoe was on the other foot, and comments like that had come from Alastair Darling though.

It means lowlander/Anglophone, you pleb.

I need your special dictionary then

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sassenach+meaning&oq=sassenach+meaning&aqs=chrome..69i57.3348j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

It does not from any link I have seen nor do I know anyone who uses it as such Its route is the word Saxon hence the similarities between the gaelic, the irish word and the welsh word

Why do you think that it means anything other than English? I have never heard this – LINK or are you being sarcastic and about to claim you were joking?

From wiki

In the Celtic languages, the word for the English nationality is derived from the Latin Saxones. The most prominent example, a loan word in English, is the Gàidhlig Sassenach (Saxon), often used disparagingly in Scottish English/Scots. It derives from the Scottish Gaelic Sasunnach meaning, originally, “Saxon”, from the Latin “Saxones”. As employed by Scots or Scottish English-speakers today it is usually used in jest, as a (friendly) term of abuse. The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) gives 1771 as the date of the earliest written use of the word in English.
Sasanach, the Irish language word for an Englishman, has the same derivation, as do the words used in Welsh to describe the English people (Saeson, sing. Sais) and the language and things English in general: Saesneg and Seisnig. These words are normally, however, used only in the Irish and Welsh languages themselves.
Cornish also terms English Sawsnek from the same derivation. In the 16th century, the phrase ‘Meea navidna cowza sawzneck!’ to feign ignorance of the English language was used in Cornish.[5]
England, in Gàidhlig, is Sasainn (Saxony). Other examples are the Welsh Saesneg (the English language), Irish Sasana (England), Breton saoz(on) (English, saozneg “the English language”, Bro-saoz “England”), and Cornish Sowson (English people) and Sowsnek (English language), Pow Sows for ‘Land [Pays] of Saxons’.

Not sure exactly what he admires

According to the linked article he admires Putin for having “restored national pride” and being “effective”.

National pride is a fairly meaningless concept imo. Many Americans, for example, will proudly fly in the stars and stripes in their front gardens but it doesn’t mean that they give a toss about their fellow Americans or the common good. National pride does not equate patriotism, although I can see the attraction for Salmond as he tries to appeal to meaningless petty nationalism.

I suspect what Salmond really admires with regards to Putin is his poll ratings.

Aye I think you have it there ernie
I have no idea WTF he meant it was bit like praising Hitler for unifying germany tbh
A proper foot in mouth moment by AS up there with his Iceland/Tiger economy speech

Why do you think that it means anything other than English? I have never heard this….

I’ve heard it said that it refers to a lowlander, although never an Anglophone.

I always understood it belonged to non Gaelic speaking Southerners,at one time from the Highlands down,who didn’t follow the old ways e.g. the clan system.It was used in dispatches to describe the city council in Glasgow who refused to open the gates to Bonnie Prince Charlie’s army by Donald McDonald, an islander. Last 20/30 years it is increasingly a description for the English as we are all English speakers up here now.

All the dictionaries say that sassanach means english. I do remember hearing the word used to mean a person from south of the highland line like Duckman I think the change in meaning is a fairly recent thing.
EDIT The different spellings prompted me to try the dictionary of the scots language which says

DSL – SND1 SASSENACH, adj., n. Also Sassanoch, -enagh, Sasennach, -unnach; the form in the 1706 quot. represents the Gael.pl. Sasunnaich. English, English-speaking, formerly also applied to the Lowlanders of Scotland; as a n., an Englishman or -woman. The word was orig. put in the mouths only of Highlanders but is now in somewhat jocular use throughout Scotland. [?s?s?n?x]
*Sc. 1706 Letters from E.C. to E.W. Concerning the Union 6:
We call them Sassanich, in Latin Saxi or Saxoni.
*Sc. 1737 J. Drummond Memoirs Locheill (1842) 113:
The English (or “Sassanoch”, that is, Saxons, as they call them in their language).
*Sc. 1771 Smollett Humphrey Clinker, Melford to Phillips (3 Sept.):
The Highlanders have no other name for the people of the Low country, but Sassenagh, or Saxons.

Given that the region that is now Lowland Scotland was settled quite extensively by the Saxon invaders in the C5th & C6th to the point that later Anglo-Saxon records describe the remaining pocket of non-Saxon lowlanders as the ‘Strathclyde Welsh’* then the old meaning of the word does seem to be more accurate.

*Welsh is derived from Walesch, meaning foreigner/other in Old English i believe.

just using ‘foreign’ seemed a bit ambiguous

The topic was attitudes to foreigners. How else would you discuss it without using the word “foreign” (or its derivatives)?

Meanwhile, I’m really enjoying being corrected by English people about what the correct definition of Scots words (used in this thread as an insult by an English person against English people). It’s almost as much fun as when a bunch of Americans were telling me the kilt isn’t a skirt and any true Scotsman would take offence to me saying so.

gordimhor – Member
All the dictionaries say that sassanach means english. I do remember hearing the word used to mean a person from south of the highland line like Duckman …

That’s what I was taught – south of the Highland line, so it included Lowlanders and English, basically non-Gaelic speakers, and not an insult.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/28/alex-salmond-fisheries-eu-scotland

I wonder if hell threaten to cut off the EUs oil supply next? Although he’d need to ignore Scottish waters actual oil production and the EUs oil consumption first. Maybe that’s what he likes about Vlad, that he can turn the energy taps off?

Slightly different.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/eu-denies-alex-salmond-s-claim-over-living-wage-1-3391162

So you think that Scotland should still allow EU boats to fish Scottish waters even if we’re kicked out of the EU?

Why on earth would we want to do that?

The article suggests he would attempt to bar access to Norwegian fisheries as well, blockading them.

Salmond didn’t make any threats, that’s just more of the same, an anti-Scottish media distorting what was actually said.

He just pointed out the bleeding obvious.

If we’re not in the club, it can’t expect any of our pie. After all, they wouldn’t be sharing theirs with us.

The article suggests he would attempt to bar access to Norwegian fisheries as well, blockading them.

Yes, that is a bit daft.

It is funny how one sentence in a long speech got all the attention, though – the full speech is here:

http://news.scotland.gov.uk/Speeches-Briefings/Scotland-s-Place-in-Europe-bdf.aspx

Anyhow:

Graham Avery, Honorary Director-General of the European Commission and Senior Adviser at the European Policy Centre in Brussels, says that for both political and practical reasons an independent Scotland could not be asked be asked to leave the EU.

In written evidence to the Foreign Affairs Select Committee at Westminster, he states: “Scotland’s five million people, having been members of the EU for 40 years, have acquired rights as European citizens. For practical and political reasons they could not be asked to leave the EU and apply for readmission.”

Mr Avery adds:
“If they [the Scottish people] wish to remain in the EU, they could hardly be asked to leave and then reapply for membership in the same way as the people of a non-member country such as Turkey. The point can be illustrated by considering another example: if a break-up of Belgium were agreed between Wallonia and Flanders, it is inconceivable that other EU members would require 11 million people to leave the EU and then reapply for membership.”

We will not be continuing members of the EU,I think that it is pretty clear that rUK would keep the ticket…at least until they pull out 🙂

duckman – Member
We will not be continuing members of the EU,..

I suppose that depends on how international law views the split. Either as 2 sovereign nations dissolving a treaty, so you get 2 continuing entities, or as a territory peeling off in which case one is the continuing state. I don’t know the answer to this, but there’s been plenty of opinion published supporting the former in overseas publications.

But it doesn’t really matter which it is, because Scotland will be in the EU and without fuss.

then the old meaning of the word does seem to be more accurate.

Well it would , literally[ see what i did there],if it was still the 6 th century and I would be gay [ see what I did there as well!]
I would rather go with what it meant now but I have at least learnt some info on the origins

FWIW anti-semitism is another one as it means anti – Jew. however the semites are the children of seth and also include the Arabs[ and others] but i would expect most folk to use it for what it means now rather than what semite actually/historically meant/means.
Words change but as I said the info was new to me.

I’m really enjoying being corrected by English people about what the correct definition of Scots words

I am Scottish if you mean me.

We will not be continuing members of the EU

I think that is where there is some interesting wriggle room
the country would not be but the people may well be depending on how much they wish to fudge it

I am sure that the fishermen of the NE coast would not be too upset if it took a while to hammer out EU membership. As you have said, there will be a lot horse trading in the event of a yes vote.

the country would not be but the people may well be depending on how much they wish to fudge it

It’s not a fudge, it’s complete nonsense. Only states are members of the European Union.

so no citizen of the member states is an EU citizen then because only states are in the EU??
That is nonsense
I think you mean the states sign the treaties of the EU that then confer rights on the citizens. as is the way in a representative democracy.
Clearly citizens of member states are EU citizens so “in” the EU. Its why we can exercise our right to live there for example.

I dont think its a great argument but I dont see how you can argue that Scottish citizens are not in the EU – check out the passport it even says it

Did someone say Scotland will be culturally weakened by a Yes vote?

Don’t follow.

I’d have thought all those who consider Scotland to be subsidy junkies and anti-English would be supportive of a Yes vote seeing as you’d get rid of us yet the sentiment on here seems to be very aggressively against Yes. Lots of portrayal of Yes support as petty nationalism.

Petty nationalism exists everywhere but if you lived up here and were privy to the constant negativity and sanctimony which has been pushed down everyone’s throat by the press and BBC Scotland then you’d perhaps understand why support for Yes is rising the closer we get to the vote.

Don’t even get me started on Better Together. They are a disgrace.

As for arguing over who is more racist or what the true definition of Sassenach is – get a life.

I will vote Yes because I want a different system of governance. We are voting for Devo Max in all but name. Alex Salmond in my opinion has been very shrewd with his stance on independence. What he proposes is Devo Max. Westminster vetoed devo max because they are not interested in devolving any more powers to other regions of the UK. Cameron said in his speech at the Scottish Conservative conference “a No vote COULD mean more devolved powers for Scotland” Could mean? either it will or it won’t and it’s abundantly clear it won’t.

One thing I am sure of is that New Labour are **** in Scotland regardless of what way the vote goes and that will be of some consolation if a No vote is returned.

Clearly citizens of member states are EU citizens so “in” the EU.

No.

Grantus, your one of these undecided voters aren’t you.

Anyway, I think some folk underestimate the depth of the UKOCK campaigns support. The offices next door have pro union stuff on their Windows and cars. Just next to the Conservative MPS signs admittedly.