Osbourne says no to currency union.

Mrs Cooper has better hair than Mary Doll.

Fnf,
What as opposing to you making sweeping statements about voting for Indy because you don’t like English accents or THM’s exact same viewpoint subbing anything from rUK as both fact and better? Yeah,can see how you have any cause for complaint.

Well come on now Daily Express which one is it in the r UK edition
ruk daily express 22nd April
meantime in the scottish edition

This thread makes me want to do toilet.

Gordimhors linking skills make me want to go toilet, let alone the rest of the thread.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/retirement/471728/New-report-warns-that-millions-of-pensioners-face-living-on-less-than-minimum-wage

http://www.express.co.uk/news/retirement/471709/Scottish-pensions-are-safer-within-the-UK

I believe these are the ones in question.

Yes that’s the one thanks pm.

Aye, that was funny. Though not really any funnier than Gordon Brown warning about pensions. Along with the Better Together posters featuring people with the Daily Mail Sad Face (TM) 😉

What’s funny about Gordon Brown’s warning about pensions ?

He’s not exactly got a brilliant record when it comes to pensions. When he removed the ACT relief it cost pension funds about £100bn in value, £5bn per year.

THM’s exact same viewpoint subbing anything from rUK as both fact and better?

More salmond-esque distortions form the Duckman. The invitation to falsify any specific points is still open.

teamhurtmore – Member

THM’s exact same viewpoint subbing anything from rUK as both fact and better?

More salmond-esque distortions form the Duckman. The invitation to falsify any specific points is still open.

Not really,that is what you have done since the thread started,of course backtracking where necessary e.g as you did on Osbourne which even Ernie called you on.
In the last week or so you have claimed that the no campaign was pretty tame,(despite previously having said they should focus on positives) and linked to the Analysis defence paper which contained the “facts” “if we looked hard enough”.
Am I making any of that up?

Yes you are and again.

The NO campaign is pretty lacklustre that is there for all to see. That does not equate to there being no positives. I have invited you to explain how the introduction to the document is pitched in a negative way and you still have yet to make a single point to justifying your point. Not surprising that. I even quoted the document to help you out.

Talk about desperate…..

So the point about the Russian ship discoved by a trawler doesn’t suggest that the Defence document is BS and the “facts” contained within quoted by you are not an example of

THM’s exact same viewpoint subbing anything from rUK as both fact and better?

I would say using tweets as a first line of defence is a fairly big indicator that maybe all is not as the SA document suggested.I would also say that mentioning this to you was me pointing out a negative..What do you think?

I fail to see how those two “news reports” are mutually exclusive?

One says we’re all in the shit, the other says the Scots might be even more in the shit come independence.

I think I just felt seepage. 🙁

Ed joining George today – time for a new title?

The Labour leader also restated his party’s position on the prospect of a shared formal currency union in the event of independence. Asked if such a deal – favoured by the SNP – was ruled out under any circumstances, he replied: “Correct.” He added: “All of the lessons from the eurozone are that, if we are going to have a currency union, we also need the kind of fiscal union that we have across the UK.

“That is a sensible economic choice – it is not about the politics.”

Dismissed as having zero credibility of course!

“Ed Milliband” and “credibility” don’t really go together. The best bit was when he got so offended at the suggestion that he might not win the next general election.

Meanwhile the CBI omnishambles just gets better and better 😀

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27159618

“You know when we said we were supporting the No campaign? Well, we didn’t mean it, we really are impartial. Honest.”

The world according to Ben Cooper part 2

Why should I bother accepting the views of the three main UK parties and the will of the UK people? The SNP have said a currency union will happen so it is definitely going to happen and anyone that says otherwise is a bully, bluffer or blusterer. Why won’t the scadges from the south realise they are too wee, too poor and too stupid to exist without a currency union with an independent Scotland.

If you read your link bencooper you would understand the reason for the reversal :

The CBI said it had taken legal advice, which suggested the application should not have been made.

“Although the decision to register with the Electoral Commission was taken in good faith, in order to carry out normal activities during the referendum period, it has inadvertently given the impression that the CBI is a political entity – we are not and never will be.”

So the CBI has been given legal advice that it cannot or should not register with the Electoral Commission to make financial donations to the No campaign.

I don’t understand why you think this represents some sort of victory for you.

All you have done is highlighted the fact that the CBI considers that it would be bad for large employers if Scotland was to separate itself from the rest of the UK.

And the only reason they are not financially supporting the No campaign is because they have been legally advised not to.

None of this suggests a ringing endorsement of the Yes campaign. In fact it suggests the complete opposite. Although obviously I’m glad that you are chuffed about it ….. even if it is a little bizarre 😕

The chairman of CBI Scotland is the MD of Babcock’s marine division, who operate Faslane.

I’m not surprised he thinks independence would be bad for business 😉

Oh, and “we’ve taken legal advice” is a stock phrase, along with the “it was a junior member of staff” line they’re trying to play. What’s much more likely is that the rush of broadcasters and other bodies to leave the CBI wasn’t exactly brilliant publicity.

Well I’m not surprised either. What would surprise me though, would be if the chairman of CBI Scotland personally decided what CBI policy with regards to Scottish independence was.

Edit for your edit :

Oh, and “we’ve taken legal advice” is a stock phrase, along with the “it was a junior member of staff” line they’re trying to play. What’s much more likely is that the rush of broadcasters and other bodies to leave the CBI wasn’t exactly brilliant publicity.

Well I guess the CBI could be lying but “the rush of broadcasters and other bodies” you refer to amounts to not much more than the BBC and Scottish universities. And I can understand why they might be in a legal dilemma. Although ITV and other broadcasters clearly weren’t.

Still, it’s interesting that you should highlight the CBI’s serious reservations with regards to Scottish independence. Is that the official Yes campaign’s line ?

What would surprise me though, would be if the chairman of CBI Scotland personally decided what CBI policy with regards to Scottish independence was

Various CBI members stated that there had been no consultation or vote about the issue.

….. or vote about the issue

You were under the impression that the CBI was an organisation like a trade union with democratic structures ?

Does this mean that you now only accept the opinions of organisations which have had a vote ?

The world according to Ben cooper part 3

Damn that Ernie and his facts. I will have to draft a response

The chairman of CBI Scotland is the MD of Babcock’s marine division, who operate Faslane. As if the loons will be clever if enough to work out the difference between CBI UK and CBI Scotland when it is really CBI UK that is doing a u-turn so mentioning the CBI scotland MD is pointless.

Oh, and “we’ve taken legal advice” is a stock phrase, along with the “it was a junior member of staff” line they’re trying to play. What’s much more likely is that the rush of broadcasters and other bodies to leave the CBI wasn’t exactly brilliant publicity. Well I don’t have any facts to prove Ernie wrong so a good dose of personal opinion should shut him up! Salmond never uses facts so why should I?

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/cbi-to-reverse-its-anti-independence-stance-1-3389046

John Cridland said the application to register “should not have been made”, as it had not been approved by the CBI board and was not signed by an authorised signatory.

mentioning the CBI scotland MD is pointless

It was mentioned in the context of why the CBI might be against independence, so not really pointless.

The CBI likes to be portrayed as an impartial body, but it’s hard to be impartial on independence when your Scottish chairman profits from nuclear weapons on the Clyde.

The world according to fasternotfatter:

Anything said by a businessman, economist or poltician* is the gospel truth, and any suggestion that they might not be telling the truth or being impartial is so blatantly, obviously wrong.

*Apart from a pro-independence politician, of course, that goes without saying.

From the above link :

“It was poor corporate governance and process. But it was never a valid application, we have Queen’s Counsel advice to that effect.”

I think it’s clear that the CBI reversed its decision because of poor corporate governance and process, and legal advice to that effect. Presumably it also breached their Royal Charter. None of this represents a ringing endorsement by the CBI for an independent Scotland. And the link points out that only 18 employers out of 1,200 have resigned or suspended their membership of the CBI over the issue, which presumably suggests that 1,182 large employers did not share the same level of objection.

None of this represents a ringing endorsement by the CBI for an independent Scotland

Has anyone suggested it did? Most big companies who have expressed an opinion have said that independence will make little or no difference and they’re not going to take a position.

What’ll be interesting is what happens if the Electoral Commission says no to the CBI.

For four days this forum was a better place.

Clean up on aisle one, new pair of pants to sbob please. 🙁

Has anyone suggested it did?

And did I suggest that anyone did ?

However it’s clear that you are well chuffed from this comment :

bencooper – Member

Meanwhile the CBI omnishambles just gets better and better 😀

I just wonder why you are so pleased ?……..since none of this represents a ringing endorsement by the CBI for an independent Scotland.

It was mentioned in the context of why the CBI might be against independence, so not really pointless.

The CBI likes to be portrayed as an impartial body, but it’s hard to be impartial on independence when your Scottish chairman profits from nuclear weapons on the Clyde.

It was CBI UK that made the decision to campaign against independence not CBI Scotland. You imply that CBI UK made this decision not based on reason but because someone from CBI Scotland is connected to Faslane, this is again your own personal opinion and not a fact. You use the phrase “might be against independence”, it either is or it isn’t Ben, you use a very tenuous link between Faslane, CBI Scotland and CBI UK to back up your argument so again you are wrong and it is still pointless I am afraid. 😳

Most big companies who have expressed an opinion have said that independence will make little or no difference and they’re not going to take a position.

Your at it again Ben! Personal opinion not fact!

BAE latest company to come out against Scottish independence
Shell joins business chorus against Scottish independence
BP chief Bob Dudley attacks Scottish independence
Standard Life could quit Scotland if voters back independence
RBS fears ‘material’ risk from Scottish independence
Scottish independence will bring ‘guaranteed’ costs, warns Weir Group

Obviously you’ve missed a lot out fasternotfatter but I found the Scots tourism industry opposition to independence interesting.

Scots tourism industry rejects independence in vote

Delegates at the Scottish tourism industry’s annual conference have voted overwhelmingly against independence.

And :

Tourism is one of Scotland’s biggest industries, worth more than £11 billion to the economy each year and supporting around 200,000 jobs.

The CBI notified the electoral commission that they wish to become a part of the no campaign. Over a few days a number of members leave or suspend there membership because the CBI wants to be part of the no campaign though most do nothing. The CBI then says that its corporate governance has not been up to scratch and belatedly it gets legal advice that it cannot become a part of a political campaign. Not to worry it was a “fairly junior” member of staff we’ll just get the application nullified. The electoral commission say they may not be able to nullify the CBI’s application.
Ernie and FNF say

none of this represents a ringing endorsement by the CBI for an independent Scotland.

😯

Your at it again Ben! Personal opinion not fact!

And you’re at it again, using companies making contingency plans (as all companies do) as a criticism of independence. BP has also said it doesn’t think independence is an issue for them, despite the personal feelings of Bob Dudley.

They are correct. It doesn’t.

Ernie and FNF say

none of this represents a ringing endorsement by the CBI for an independent Scotland.

😯

I can see by your ” 😯 ” that you obviously do think that it represents a ringing endorsement by the CBI for an independent Scotland.

You are of course perfectly entitled to your opinions, however much off the wall they might be, but I don’t think the logic that you are expressing here really provides the basis for a sensible debate.

Gordimhor while Ernie may have said “none of this represents a ringing endorsement by the CBI for an independent Scotland” I most certainly did not. Are you trying to imply that because the CBI is now not actively campaigning against independence that they are endorsing it?

Ben you originally said “Most big companies who have expressed an opinion have said that independence will make little or no difference and they’re not going to take a position” to which I replied with a list of companies that have expressed a concern about independence. My point was that your comment was not based on fact and I challenged your point and provided evidence to back up my argument. So I am not “using companies making contingency plans (as all companies do) as a criticism of independence” I am merely using the statements made by these companies to back up my argument, there is no criticism of independence.
However I disagree that the companies are just making contingencies and it would indeed seem that your original statement was in fact totally wrong. Here are some quotes from the articles.

In his strategic review Ian King, chief executive, said: “In September 2014, Scotland will hold an independence referendum. The decision on independence from the UK is a matter for the people of Scotland.
However, BAE Systems has significant interests and employees in Scotland, and it is clear that continued union offers greater certainty and stability for our business”
“In its annual results last month RBS said: “A vote in favour of Scottish independence would be likely to significantly impact the group’s credit ratings and could also impact the fiscal, monetary, legal and regulatory landscape to which the group is subject.”
“Mr Dudley said: “We have a lot of people in Scotland, we’ve got a lot of investments in Scotland. I don’t know … there’s much debate about what would happen with the currency and of course whether there would be connections with Europe or not.”
“Standard Life, which has nearly 4 million customers in the UK and 5,000 employees in Scotland, said it would take “whatever action necessary” to protect its business, including moving its operations to England”
“One of Scotland’s largest companies, Weir Group, believes that independence will “guarantee” higher costs for business but produce few and uncertain benefits”
It would appear that big companies think independence will make a difference and that they are worried by the prospect of independence.