Osbourne says no to currency union.

When Scotland votes NO I wonder how Alex will package his response?

‘The Scottish people have shown that they aren’t quite ready for a fully independent Scotland, but want a roadmap leading to this starting with Devolution’.

Or summit like that.

No you fat, short ****. They didn’t say that (etc)

1. The No campaign’s responses have to be negative by definition, otherwise they wouldn’t be the No campaign.

They could focus on all the good reasons to stay and the positive nature of the relationship

They do not need to be negative at all they choose to do this.

I think most Scots want more decisions about their affairs made in Scotland, and less of them made in Westminster, but don’t want independence.

And who can blame them.

They’re not offered that choice by the UK government, because they’d take it.

“Do you want so much cake it makes you vomit, or no cake at all?”
“Sorry, you want a nice slice of cake? Forget it, that’s not an option. Now vote.”

and so, after the referendum…

a) “Keep eating it… don’t blame us you’re feeling sick, it was your choice. Shut up!”
b) “We don’t care that you’re hungry, it was your choice, this is our cake, hands off! Shut up!”

@bencooper

Do you think Holyrood is? or any politician for that matter?

Do you think Holyrood is? or any politician for that matter?

Broadly, yes. They’re far from perfect, but doing a lot of good. Like mitigating the bedroom tax recently, to pick just one example.

bencooper – Member Does anyone think the Westminster government is acting in your best interests?

Ben you starting to sound like project fear! 😉 strip away a lot of the BS and there is a huge amount of positive work down in committees etc and by the majority of constituency MPs. A lot of this is done on a cross-party basis and shows how well MPs can actually do things outside the whips and cameras etc.

With relevance to this debate, the Scottish Analysis section is decidedly better informed analysis than the BoD, so rather than all this negativity, perhaps people could look harder at what is done and what excellent analysis is available. It would save the headache of grappling with 670 pages of fairy tales.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/scotland-analysis

Plenty of positive stuff for those inclined/bothered to read it. Even today’s reports, dismissed immediately as bullying, sets out clearly (indeed the very first para) the benefits of Scotland remaining part of the UK. It takes a pretty extreme form of myopia to ignore that, even if it is inconvenient for the current yS narrative.

@bencooper
sorry i dont mean to pick, but so does Westminster – like recently writing of the debt from Shetland housing projects,
same goes for EU, lots of negative press, yet funding for a lot of grass roots projects.
what i would say about your response “Like mitigating the bedroom tax recently, to pick just one example.”
That really is a “we are doing this because its popular” , in fact the money thats mitigating these issuesm “from westminster” should be used to BUILD AFFORDABLE housing. so we would not need the bedroom tax at all.

is it fair for a Scot living in glasgow with 2 teenage kids who has just lost his/her job cannot get a 3 bedroom council house on a short term basis because people who do not need those bedrooms can sit in the council house for life?
i am not saying the bedroom tax solves this, but what else can be done when governments of either borders, will NEVER BE SEEN to force people out of 2+ bed council homes into 1 bed council homes , despite there being a real “need” case.

To repeat

Good old Scottish ‘They’re all out to get us!’ at it’s finest there with that post [ straw man, ad hom ]
I think you’re totally wrong

Your next reply should be entertaining

And your point is Junkyard? Please feel free to baffle us with some more clever linguistical abreviations that we’ll all have to Google.

My point was that there’s a lot of Scots posting on here who seem bitter and resentful about the union, probably because they themselves are not personally in a good place at the moment. They seem to want to blame the English, the Union, the Con/Dems, infact anyone but themselves for their own situation.

I’m not talking about the majority of Scots here, just a few vocal voices who through the style of their posts seem to think that there’s a big conspiracy out there against Scotland.

Nothing could be further from the truth of course, but often people believe what they wish to believe and no doubt this will still influence their opinion come referendum time.

If the Tories have long enough after the vote,I can assure you we will NOT have so much cake forced down that we vomit. That is judging how badly Westminster cut the scottish budget after the poll in the 70’s. George Younger had to go cap in hand to Westminster as he was to be choosing between schools and hospitals after the next budget.

Isn’t today’s affordable housing shortage Thatchers fault anyway? If we’d got independence in the 70’s we wouldn’t have this problem now. Nor would we have the bedroom tax 😉

They seem to want to blame the English, the Union, the Con/Dems, infact anyone but themselves for their own situation.

I dropped out of the debate for a bit a missed a few pages but I still haven’t seen anyone blaming the English, just the Westminster government and the Tories. Very different thing.

My point was that there’s a lot of Scots posting on here who seem bitter and resentful about the union, probably because they themselves are not personally in a good place at the moment. They seem to want to blame the English, the Union, the Con/Dems, the English, infact anyone but themselves for their own situation.

Nope,try harder…You seem very keen to make this an issue of race.

My recollection was that devo max was taken off the vote for the reason that interpreting the results might lead to some grey areas.

What if the result was that 90% vote yes for devo max and 50.0001% vote yes for independence.

What should the result be?

Devo max would appear to be the most democratic choice, but if the independence vote was also slightly positive that would overrule it.

So in the proposed referendum, the option with the greatest support might end up being ignored.

So why bother asking?

Like it or not, all or nothing gives a clearer decision, and prevents grey areas, no matter which side of the Yes/No divide you fall on.

Holyrood is only representative if you live in the central belt, where it regularly p*sses money up the wall. Can’t wait for an independent Scotland where it sucks in even more tax payers money.

@bencooper – I do not think this Westminster Government nor the prior one is/was “out to get me”

I predict that should Scotland get independence the Scots will be far more hacked off with a Scottish Government than they ever were with Westminster

Like it or not, all or nothing gives a clearer decision, and prevents grey areas, no matter which side of the Yes/No divide you fall on.

It’s an artificial divide though… forced to chose between Independence and the Status Quo, when you may well want neither.

I want the Scots to vote NO… but if I was a Scot forced to make that choice… I don’t think I could vote for “more of the same” given political history of the last 40 years.

There is no “clarity” or “finality” in the decision that will come out of the referundum, because it delibrately avoids posing the question that people actually want asking… “do you want more say over your affairs in future, without breaking up the UK”. That question will still hang in the air… whatever the result.

Do you think Holyrood is? or any politician for that matter?

Broadly, yes. They’re far from perfect, but doing a lot of good. Like mitigating the bedroom tax recently, to pick just one example.

Ben if you really believe that was done for anything more than it being popular then you are a mug.*

They are all the same, professional politicians who care more about their careers and egos than the people they are supposed to represent.

*To further support this statement, by your own admission you did buy a piece of scrap for £200. 🙂

Kelvin, go back a year or so and the dominant voice (here and elsewhere) was not about DMax or economic self-interest, it was about the principle of independence. It was very clear and honourable. That is what you have now on a plate with a simple yes and no. No ifs or buts, no are we better off in the ST or not. Just do you want full independence or not.

Ok, it’s a bit tricky now that the BoD argues for something different, but whose fault is that? It would be a bit odd for the same people to start arguing that it’s unfair to have a vote in full independence after all that they said in the beginning.

I predict that should Scotland get independence the Scots will be far more hacked off with a Scottish Government than they ever were with Westminster

For sure, but at least they will have voted them in. So Turkeys do vote for Xmas after all 😆

The Scots will vote NO.

So, what happens next?

The’ll be told they’ve made their choice.

For a while clearly, no one welcomes the uncertainty/aggro which will only get worse over the next few months. There will be little appetite for more in the immediate aftermath. Leading to the obvious question…..

[….and if yes, two years of acrimonious negotiations. Well it will keep the politicos, journos and lawyers happy and in the money. Meanwhile, for the rest of us……..]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26175401

😆 ouch. So what is plan B then?

No clarity or finality either way… which is what happens when people don’t get to cast a vote for the result they actually want, but have to decide which of the options given to them is the least bad.

Ok once rebel12

And your point is Junkyard?

You were wrong but you are not going to admit that and apologise
Also you agreed with the post you described as totally wrong so I did not have high expectations for you to get a fairly basic point.
We know the content of your character as well as the content of your brains.

Please feel free to baffle us with some more clever linguistical abreviations that we’ll all have to Google.

One word was abbreviated so it should be singular and I doubt anyone but you found them to be clever or required google to decipher

My point was that there’s a lot of Scots posting on here who seem bitter and resentful about the union, probably because they themselves are not personally in a good place at the moment. They seem to want to blame the English, the Union, the Con/Dems, infact anyone but themselves for their own situation.

no there are the odd troll person like you who tries to say this and provoke a reaction but there is no sabre rattling [ beyond banter] on either side of the fence [ except you]

Blimey, you almost feel a little sorry for dear nicola there. How much longer will the pretend assets/liabilities argument last I wonder?? We want a partnership (sic) to the lender of last resort question….does she have any idea what that means? You couldn’t make it up…..that is really quite painful to watch. She must have had a very good legal training though as she managed to avoid blushing at any stage. May be she is also a good bridge/poker player?

TBF, the use of “Tory” and/or “bully” was a lot less than the normal script!!!

If we are sharing assets ,how much of the oil does the uk keep?

We know the content of your character as well as the content of your brains

Haha Junkyard that’s a classic! You keep nit picking if that’s what you like to do 😆

Nicola didn’t come out of that very well did she? So there’s no Plan B it would seem. With politicians like her on the side of the YES campaign it’s no wonder Osbourne and Co won’t debate the issues until they really have to – otherwise they’d be debating from now until the next millennium without her ever answering a straight question.

If we are sharing assets ,how much of the oil does the uk keep?

The oil and gas is a different matter. There’s standard and well known rules for dividing off shore resources. 10% is roughly the amount that lie in rUK waters.

Bully ,does seem to be their buzz word. We have all 3 parties, the governor of the Bank of England ,that clever bloke from the video and the president of the eu all ganging up on little Alex.
The thing is if I was Scottish I would be voting yes ,purely for nationalistic reasons. The money side of it has come to the fore and no one seems to have any facts.
Thanks whatno beer I didn’t know that.

Broadly, yes. They’re far from perfect, but doing a lot of good. Like mitigating the bedroom tax recently, to pick just one example.

Hasn’t Alex Salmond been acting in Donald Trump’s interest?

Hasn’t Alex Salmond been acting in Donald Trump’s interest?

Considering Trump is wanting to sue the government because he thinks AS interfered with the wind farm decision, I wouldn’t say he has.

Plan B, which isn’t a great one, seems to be to use the pound, but have no say in it. That’s the answer I thought she gave multiple times quite clearly. Also, I think she’s right, not about independence being a good thing, I don’t share that opinion at all, but that the UK parties are bluffing about currency union being impossible in a result of a YES vote. That decision hasn’t really been made yet by rUK, the politicians are just pretending it has to try and make Independence a scarier prospect. Everything would be on the table in negotiations after a YES vote, rUK would dangle the carrot of currency union to make sure they kept full access to Scotland as a market, as a debt payer, and for its resources.

Hasn’t Alex Salmond been acting in Donald Trump’s interest?

http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/defeated-donald-trump-turns-his-back-on-scotland-1-3301941

The one thing they are not doing is bluffing. The stakes have been raised and both sides are playing a much higher risk game now. Time to play with the big boys. This has all be careful choreographed and interesting to see just how canny Darling has played his cards here. Easy to underestimate the quiet ones!!

Dear Nicola may be struggling a little bit, but even she is not stupid enough to argue the case of just using the pound in isolation. One of the key drivers of the Scottish economy is financial services. Doesn’t anyone imagine for one moment that a bank would remain domiciled in a country without a lender of last resort. To throw that idea into the mix would be economic and political suicide.

OK but didnt he originally approve the plans for the development in somewhat dodgy circumstances? Overriding local planning etc?

kelvin – Member

Plan B, which isn’t a great one, seems to be to use the pound, but have no say in it. That’s the answer I thought she gave multiple times quite clearly.

She mentioned that yes, but at no point committed to that being their plan b.

BTW is he still planning to undercut UK corporation tax? Doesn’t seem to fit very well with the socialist utopian vision.

Grum, the wind was blowing from the other direction at that point. 😉 Its a stormy “Southerly” one now!!

Undercut taxes, outdo on spending etc…..you name it…..

Surprised dear Nicola hasn’t jumped on the fact that Macpherson is an OE!!! It could be another distraction while she draws breath.

In that video the man hits on uk students having to pay in Scotland.
If scotland joins the eu how would that arrangement hold up under eu law?

The one thing they are not doing is bluffing.

I dont share your confidence as neither side has much to gain from the Pound not being shared tbh. That is it will cost both sides real money to do this and will create lots of problems and hassles for no real gain.

Will they do this when it is a reality – I doubt it in much the same way as I doubt scotland will not take on any of the debts – its more likely than that though but I still think it is brinkmanship. The outcome, as with so much of this will all depend on the negotiations

And here’s Ed Balls’ view in the Scotsman today:

And as Chancellor in a UK Labour government after the general election, I simply could not support or recommend to Parliament that we form a currency union with a separate Scotland. Looking at the economics of this, it’s the only conclusion I can reach. A currency union between an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK is not going to happen.….

….[doesnt sound like a bluff to me]….

…..Alex Salmond must now come clean and explain to the Scottish people what currency an independent Scotland would have. It is the most fundamental economic question a country has to decide. The troubled experience of the euro over the last decade shows why it’s so vital to get this right.