Osbourne says no to currency union.

Disproportionate to what? Population, generation?

It’s certainly to be expected that post-independence, the rUK would want to import electricity from Scotland- the infrastructure, the capacity and the demand all exist obviously. Mutually beneficial situation

@JY, I’m not convinced it’s that simple, it’s not like England or Wales have filled their usefully windy spots. Strikes me as a correlation rather than a cause.

Ooh you old cynic.

I’m sure they’d never do such a thing.

should have thought an iS would be rubbing it’s hands together. if the UK’s energy requirements are not being fulfilled domestically, then by increasing iS’s provision there’s a ready made customer on your doorstep and it would make it an easy sell to the rest of UK? the infrastructure operated by the national grid is already connected to Scotland’s, as well as the continent, so it should be a pretty easy sell, right?
get building them nukes low carbon power generation systems!

should have thought an iS would be rubbing it’s hands together. if the UK’s energy requirements are not being fulfilled domestically, then by increasing iS’s provision there’s a ready made customer on your doorstep and it would make it an easy sell to the rest of UK?

Well, you’d think so – but I guess the counter argument is that most of the renewables are loss making and only operable with significant subsidy, so in an independent Scotland, who’s going to underwrite the payments to the operators?

ninfan – Member
should have thought an iS would be rubbing it’s hands together. if the UK’s energy requirements are not being fulfilled domestically, then by increasing iS’s provision there’s a ready made customer on your doorstep and it would make it an easy sell to the rest of UK?
Well, you’d think so – but I guess the counter argument is that most of the renewables are loss making and only operable with significant subsidy, so in an independent Scotland, who’s going to underwrite the payments to the operators?

The English, we just punt youse our surplus for an over inflated price, job done!

I’d rather buy off the French (spits on floor) 😆

Let’s not forget the water that Boris,you know the guy who could be future leader of this country, said you should pipe down to the sarf of England,because you have regular shortages. ” och don’t worry,it’s all the peat that gives it that yellow colour and salty taste… 😈

@JY, I’m not convinced it’s that simple

I dont do complicated 😉

Fair point I am sure other factors need to be taken into account

Hmm, not sure if he’s trolling

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26933998

The Scottish government said the comments were “crass and offensive”.

Again terrible reporting from the BBC.

So the whole assembly, all said this? Or was it from a spokesman or the yes camp BBC?

I presume a spokesperson for the Scottish government (i.e. the SNP).

This is more love bombing, is it?

Again terrible reporting from the BBC.

So the whole assembly, all said this?

And yet again another pointless attack on the BBC !

“The government” doesn’t mean “the parliament” which I assume is what you mean by “the whole assembly”. And as bencooper’s points out ministers and others have the authority to speak on behalf of the Scottish government.

It doesn’t mean that every MSP said the identical thing and most people realise this which is why the BBC didn’t need to point it out 🙂

They’ve trotted out another Lord!

Can almost hear the meter ticking over as another few undecided go Yes.

What a load of bollocks that was. The fear, smear, and sneer campaign is getting desperate.

If Scotland not being in NATO is such a problem to the Western world, then the answer is simple, ask Scotland to be a member.

then the answer is simple, ask Scotland to be a member.

But I thought SNP policy was against joining NATO – so even if they were asked, they wouldn’t join, surely?

It’s not the first time Robertson’s been wheeled out to talk pish about NATO- any time they want a scarestory but can’t get it from NATO because they try to base their positions on reality, they bring him forth because of his past association with the organisation. He can give the impression of representing NATO while having nothing to do with them. It’s a shame really.

(see also- last year when he was telling us that “unresolved border disputes” would prevent us joining NATO. Oh and suggesting Scotland would be responsible for the cost of relocating Trident)

Hard to see this as turning out to be anything but another project fear own goal though, it’ll play well with their supporters but you can already hear people say “Whose business is it of America’s what we do?”

“The government” doesn’t mean “the parliament” which I assume is what you mean by “the whole assembly”. And as bencooper’s points out ministers and others have the authority to speak on behalf of the Scottish government.

It doesn’t mean that every MSP said the identical thing and most people realise this which is why the BBC didn’t need to point it ou

Its misleading. They should be clear ‘a spokesman for X released this’ or name the person who said it.

When the ‘British Government’ says anything its common to state who is saying/clarifying basically no?

The BBC were being a wee bit naughty, as though theres a united thought at Holyrood.

piemonster – Member
Hmm, not sure if he’s trolling

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26933998

In contrast! 😆

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/comment-independence-will-create-a-global-power-1-3365972

ninfan – Member
then the answer is simple, ask Scotland to be a member.
But I thought SNP policy was against joining NATO – so even if they were asked, they wouldn’t join, surely?

nope.

Here is the Yes scotland position on nato

The current Scottish Government supports continued membership of NATO, albeit with the significant caveat that membership should not require retention of nuclear weapons in Scotland.

In their white paper (“Scotland’s Future: Your Guide to Scottish Independence”) the Scottish Government explains its view that “NATO membership is in Scotland’s interests, and the interests of our neighbours, because it underpins effective conventional defence and security co?operation”.

Robertson language is shocking – I await the Union supporters attacking him as they do AS.
That attack and language is way OTT…was he tired and emotional?

In a plea to the former politician, she said: “I’m not the person using language like cataclysmic and suggesting that independence would aid the forces of darkness.

“I would invite George Robertson to come back into the realms of decent and rational debate, because that is the kind of debate we should be having.”
THIS

Its misleading. They should be clear ‘a spokesman for X released this’ or name the person who said it.

No it is not misleading and you will find examples everyday of this

When the ‘British Government’ says anything its common to state who is saying/clarifying basically no?

Its clarified right there in your own question its the BRITISH GOVERNMENT saying it 🙄
Its not common the most common clarification is a “spokesperson” which tells you next to nothing

gordimhor – Member

The current Scottish Government supports continued membership of NATO, albeit with the significant caveat that membership should not require retention of nuclear weapons in Scotland.

Which again Robertson has claimed in the past would be a barrier to entry, ignoring the fact that NATO would require Scotland as a member to adhere to the principles of nuclear nonproliferation and nuclear disarmament as signatories to the NPT. We’d not be allowed to be a nuclear power if we wanted to or to receive UK nuclear weapons, nor would the UK be allowed to support us if we did.

So in some ways it’s same old same old but the change of tone is pretty surprising, up til now they’ve been trading on his plausability and statesmanship, maybe he just thought he’s used that up?

ignoring the fact that NATO would require Scotland as a member to adhere to the principles of nuclear nonproliferation and nuclear disarmament as signatories to the NPT. We’d not be allowed to be a nuclear power if we wanted to or to receive UK nuclear weapons,

Which is entirely a straw man argument, since nobody with any real credibility has for one second ever suggested that Scotland (or any other country) hosting nuclear weapons in the command of control of either the UK or US would be in breach of the NPT, otherwise Belgium, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Japan and a whole long list of other nations would have been breaking the non proliferation treaty for fifty odd years!

Funny that isn’t it, over 30 years of constant opposition to NATO membership, then a complete policy U-turn just after Alex signs the Edinburgh agreement

And they accuse the No campaign of being disingenuous and inconsistent 😆

ninfan – Member
…Funny that isn’t it, over 30 years of constant opposition to NATO membership, then a complete policy U-turn just after Alex signs the Edinburgh agreement…

I think you’re confusing SNP party policy with the broader independence movement.

Our govt’s future policies will depend on which govt we elect after independence.

Who knows, maybe we will want to seek the protection of Russia from the threatened bombings the Westminster mob have suggested will be necessary? 🙂

epicyclo – Member

Can almost hear the meter ticking over as another few undecided go Yes.

Really? 😐

You’re in the minority.
You always have been, are now, and always will be.
I can only assume that you’re hoping a lot of “No” voters are actually telling porky pies and will vote “Yes” on the day.
This won’t happen. In fact, the opposite will happen.
I’ve had a good look around other forums to try and guage what people’s true feelings are (as, believe it or not, the tiny population of STW is not representative of the general population 😯 ) and the Yes crowd are definitely a vocal minority.
A lot of No voters are simply too scared to share their opinion for fear of reprisal by the Yes mob.

I work in service/hospitality and speak to hundreds of people each week. I’m yet to meet one Scot who favours independence, though I suppose the ones I’ve spoken to are working in England and can see first hand one of the great benefits of the union.
They can also share their opinion honestly, without fear of abuse.

I’ve had a good look around other forums to try and guage what people’s true feelings are (as, believe it or not, the tiny population of STW is not representative of the general population ) and the Yes crowd are definitely a vocal minority.

NOW that is proper SCIENCE

I’m yet to meet one Scot who favours independence

Do you just cater at events for the Union campaign ?
Personally i consider that to be most unlikely and it strikes me that you are making stuff up to support your point

I am not getting into a debate here re your honesty [ i think we will take it as read you will defend it / criticise me] but it would be impossible for someone to ask hundreds of scots and not hear one in favour.
If i claimed I had asked hundreds and all has said yes would you believe me ? Would anyone?

Sorry for being unclear Junkyard, I didn’t mean I speak to hundreds of Scots each week, but out of those hundreds of people, all the Scots have been against independence.

Do you just cater at events for the Union campaign?

No. 🙂
I’m in England so am not party to much campaigning.
My customers are a broad mix of public sector (NHS, Teachers, Councils et cetera) and very varied private sector.

Quite unscientific of course, I wouldn’t dispute that.

epicyclo – Member

Who knows, maybe we will want to seek the protection of Russia from the threatened bombings the Westminster mob have suggested will be necessary?

I was hearing reports of 4 blackhawks flying north through central scotland yesterday. Westminster starting to a mass forces in preparation? 😆

Quite unscientific of course, I wouldn’t dispute that.

💡 So it’s probably best that you don’t rely on your own research which concludes that no one in Scotland will vote for independence and perhaps rely instead on slightly more scientific research which suggests that approx 40% intend to vote for independence.

BTW what “work in service/hospitality” do you do that gives you the opportunity to ask every Scotsman and woman you meet whether they ‘favour independence’ ?

So it’s probably best that you don’t rely on your own research which concludes that no one in Scotland will vote for independence and perhaps rely instead on slightly more scientific research which suggests that approx 40% intend to vote for independence.

Thanks for the hot tip.

BTW what “work in service/hospitality” do you do that gives you the opportunity to ask every Scotsman and woman you meet whether they ‘favour independence’?

I’m a grown up, I speak to people. I don’t need to obtain permission slips from Mummy or Daddy. 😕

What do you do for a living Che?

I speak to people.

I figured that out. I find it slightly bizarre how you manage to ask Scotsmen and women you meet whether or not the support Scottish independence.

Although not quite as bizarre as your claim that you have never met one of the 40% who do.

I find it slightly bizarre how you manage to ask Scotsmen and women you meet whether or not the support Scottish independence.

You find it bizarre that two adults, or even a group of adults would discuss current affairs?
Now that is odd.
What do you do for a living? It may explain your peculiar views.

Although not quite as bizarre as your claim that you have never one of the 40% who do.

It’s hardly bizarre when you actually read what I wrote and keep it in context.
Some of these people are working (and living) in England, so they will not be part of the 40% as they have no vote.
The rest are people working in England (but not living) or those doing business in England.

Now doesn’t it stand to reason that these people are more likely to see the benefits of the union compared to someone who perhaps lives and works in Scotland without having as much experience of the rest of the UK?
I thought I made that point clearly in my earlier post, but maybe you missed it, or were distracted by Bert* or something.

*Pretty sure I owed you a cheap shot, there you have it. I personally thought it was quite good. 😀

seosamh77 – Member
…I was hearing reports of 4 blackhawks flying north through central scotland yesterday. Westminster starting to a mass forces in preparation?

The Russian aircraft carrier they didn’t notice has been gone for weeks now.

Or were they responding to Coastkid’s hordes rampaging through Nth Berwick at the weekend.

sbob – Member

…A lot of No voters are simply too scared to share their opinion for fear of reprisal by the Yes mob…

Can you produce a documented case of this?

Intimidation is a serious offence, and the police would take an interest. Or are you believing the beat ups produced by the media, which are fact free.

Can you produce a documented case of this?

A documented case of a post on an internet forum?
Yes I can, though I don’t think the police would be interested.
Maybe “reprisal” was too strong a word, we’re talking friends falling out not gang warfare or another Ireland situation!

Mind you, you know who the greatest enemy of a Scotsman is… 😉

You find it bizarre that two adults, or even a group of adults would discuss current affairs?

Well I find it a little odd that someone who works in “service/hospitality” should make a point of speaking to their Scottish clients about Scottish independence, yes.

Specially if they are a barman or waiter. Although black cab driver would make sense. And that would explain why none have been prepared to admit supporting independence – no one likes to be rude to a black cab driver.

Some of these people are working (and living) in England, so they will not be part of the 40% as they have no vote.

So your observation has no discernible value then. Which makes it rather strange that you should have mentioned it then.

Well I find it a little odd that someone who works in “service/hospitality” should make a point of speaking to their Scottish clients about Scottish independence, yes.

How sad that you should think like that. It’s not the only topic of conversation though, we talk about all sorts.
It’s just people, having a chat.

So your observation has no discernible value then.

So because some of my customers have no vote, the opinions of those that do aren’t relevent.
With logic like that you could work for the SNP!

So what do you do for a living then Che? I take it you don’t have much of a customer facing role?
(and go on; admit you thought the jibe was quite good 😉 )

sbob – Member
…A documented case of a post on an internet forum?…

No, an actual case of intimidation with actual rather than imaginary people.

You’re an imaginary person?
The mind is a terrible thing to taste. 😉

ninfan – Member

Which is entirely a straw man argument, since nobody with any real credibility has for one second ever suggested that Scotland (or any other country) hosting nuclear weapons in the command of control of either the UK or US would be in breach of the NPT

Seriously? It’s always been widely regarded that the US posting of nuclear weapons abroad is in direct violation of the NPT. It’s something that’s survived as it’s historic, you’ll notice that none of the list of nations you mentioned became a nuclear host within recent times. (and some are actively disarming- Germany now hosts only vestiges of the old US nuclear establishment, and is acting to remove the last of those, in keeping with its legal commitment to pursue the agenda of nuclear disarmament).

So it is bizarre that people claim Scotland refusing to host nuclear weapons would be an issue for NATO, when it’s something other countries already do, and something Germany are moving towards with the full consent and cooperation of NATO.

Another fine Robertson claim- that Scotland would in fact be forcing the UK to disarm. Utter gibberish, there’s no prospect that even he believes it. But here he is again being given serious attention.

sbob – Member
You’re an imaginary person?
The mind is a terrible thing to taste.

That’s the sort of thing hirsute sub-pontal denizens say… 🙂

It was an extremely obscure reference to an album by Ministry.
Still fairly certain at least one STWer would recognise it.