Osbourne says no to currency union.

michaelbowden – Member
seosamh77 – Member
so we’ll just take our 9% of the gold reserves and bank of England assets. Lets see what that does to the value of the pound eh?

And we’ll deduct your 9% of UK debit from that 9% of the Gold Reserves. I wonder who will owe who……?

Don’t worth Michael, understanding how a balance sheet is structured and works is not a yS strong point. If the First Minister doesn’t understand it*, then no surprise that yes supporters can’t either.

* “if you don’t let us share your debt, we won’t share your debt.” And you want to trust people who spout such nonsense to look after your interests? Bizarre.

Look, I said I was sorry

Sorry, I missed that, apology accepted 😉

I’m not sure if it’s nitpicky to suggest that your latest footnote doesn’t quite explain the significant difference in franchise between US elections and the Scottish referendum by not actually mentioning the difference for people born there. I’m sure it wasn’t your intention to miss off that important information, so how about:

“unlike the Scottish referendum, in most other elections people born but not currently resident in a country do get to to vote”

“unlike the Scottish referendum, in most other elections people born but not currently resident in a country do get to to vote”

I’m still not sure why that’s the case though. Why should you get a vote if you’re not resident in that country?

bencooper – Member
Actually the BoE reserves are around £403bn.

As you were.

You might want to check that!!!!

As you were.

I really hope you put as much effort into exposing the lies and hypocrisy of the UK Government.

I have to admit if the UK government was calling for independence from some other body I’m not sure I’d vote yes either on that basis. I wonder about the lies and hypocrisy of the next level up…

bencooper – Member

Actually the BoE reserves are around £403bn.

As you were.

My Figures were for GOLD reserves as taken from here as this is what was mentioned by seaosamh77

WIKKI

However, if your figure is correct for the BOE’s total reserves the principal remains. iS will OWE rUK a whole shed load more from its 9% of the UK debt than it will ever get from its 9% of the BOE reserves.

Circa

£91,348,082,100

Don’t worth Michael, understanding how a balance sheet is structured and works is not a yS strong point. If the First Minister doesn’t understand it*, then no surprise that yes supporters can’t either.

especially, if you are only claiming there is 7 billion in gold reserves, and ignoring all other assets.! 😀

Why should you get a vote if you’re not resident in that country?

Dunno, not an expert on electoral franchise, it seems to be quite standard though so I’m assuming somebody who knows better thinks it a good idea.

“”unlike the Scottish referendum, in most other elections people born but not currently resident in a country do get to to vote”

it’s not enough to be born somewhere, you have to be a citizen. there’s no Scottish citizenship because there is no Scottish state. suggesting that a referendum on the creation of a Scottish state should be determined on the basis of putative quasi-citizenship of a state that doesn’t exist is absurd.

and if you really wanted a voice, you shouldn’t have buggered off in the first place or should have moved back when the vote was on the table.

I did the analysis on page 13, you need to look at net assets as the reserves back up money issued. If we transfer the reserves, then we would also reduce money supply so the net balance sheet position would be much smaller.

Here is my earlier post

The Bank of England’s balance sheet consists of assets – securites, repo and other advances to banks etc, gold etc, loans to government of £400 billion, it has liabilities of £400 including notes issued the pounds in your pocket and borrowing (dominated by its Asset Purchase Faciltity). Its net assets are £3 billion so on your argument you would be entitled to 9% of these which would be £270 million. You’ve then got your share of the pound and the reserves – well done.

it seems to be quite standard though

We’ve got a data set of 2 on this thread so far.

3 – US, France, UK. I think those are the only ones which have been checked, though feel free to add some more.

mefty – Member
I did the analysis on page 13, you need to look at net assets as the reserves back up money issued. If we transfer the reserves, then we would also reduce money supply so the net balance sheet position would be much smaller.

Here is my earlier post

The Bank of England’s balance sheet consists of assets – securites, repo and other advances to banks etc, gold etc, loans to government of £400 billion, it has liabilities of £400 including notes issued the pounds in your pocket and borrowing (dominated by its Asset Purchase Faciltity). Its net assets are £3 billion so on your argument you would be entitled to 9% of these which would be £270 million. You’ve then got your share of the pound and the reserves – well done. I’m not claiming their won’t be a deficit, they will be, as the UK has been run like shit for god knows how long.

Point is that there are assets and there are debts, and they will be split. ie armies, banks assets, government holdings etc etc etc etc.

There’ are 1.25 trillion in assets that the UK hold. the debt is about 1.4 trillion.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/223814/whole_of_government_accounts_year_ended_31_march_2012.pdf

page 43

Total assets (billions, 2012) £1,267.6

When you let the debt outstrip the assets, I call that bad management. Another good reason to go it alone.

You seem to be mixing up rather a lot of things there….

Never mind, it’s not about the financials is it!?!

The UK has been run like shit for god knows how long….

Hmmmm,……

teamhurtmore – Member
Never mind, it’s not about the financials is it!?!

yip, it’s far more important than that.

There’ are 1.25 trillion in assets that the UK hold

Yeah, but that figure includes a huge amount of fixed assets that can’t be liquidated, and you’re already getting at the very least a fair share of these (Hospitals, forests, schools etc. – much of which was built with that pesky debt stuff)

When you let the debt outstrip the assets, I call that bad management.

You’ve never bought a house on a mortgage, then.

ninfan – Member
There’ are 1.25 trillion in assets that the UK hold
Yeah, but that figure includes a huge amount of fixed assets that can’t be liquidated, and you’re already getting at the very least a fair share of these (Hospitals, forests, schools etc. – much of which was built with that pesky debt stuff)

And all these things will go into scotlands balance sheet.

konabunny – Member
You’ve never bought a house on a mortgage, then.

nope.

And all these things will go into scotlands balance sheet.

Agreed, which makes nonsense of the claims regards ‘fair share of the assets’ doesn’t it!

When you let the debt outstrip the assets, I call that bad management. Another good reason to go it alone.

Do you actually know anything about economics at all, other than the Grandmother’s Common Sense school?

Or are you just spouting off?

ninfan – Member
And all these things will go into scotlands balance sheet.
Agreed, which makes nonsense of the claims regards ‘fair share of the assets’ doesn’t it!

Why? Who’s claiming that scotland won’t come out of the negotiations with a share of the deficit(and don’t say Salmond, surely we can all agree that’s just a starting position).

molgrips – Member
When you let the debt outstrip the assets, I call that bad management. Another good reason to go it alone.
Do you actually know anything about economics at all, other than the Grandmother’s Common Sense school?

Or are you just spouting off?

I’ll happily admit I know bugger all. It’s not particularly difficult to read a balance sheet though.

Deficit, balance sheet….FFS, can we stop mixing things up!!!

I know it hard when you read yS propaganda but please…..

Oh, a balance sheet is called a balance sheet because it balances.

Seosamh, you are doing a great job of falsifying at least one part of that final line!!

Enough of the Scottish subsidy myth

molgrips – Member
“When you let the debt outstrip the assets, I call that bad management. Another good reason to go it alone.”
Do you actually know anything about economics at all, other than the Grandmother’s Common Sense school?

When the bailiff is at the door, you can’t pay back your debt with economics. They use arithmetic.

That good enough? 🙂

You might want to check that!!!!

As you were.

I did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_England

This reminds me exactly of the discussions I have with my accountant. Long, interminable discussions about whether a spanner is a capital asset or stuff like that. It’s fascinating for those that like that kind of thing, but not for the rest of us.

But here’s the direct comparison – often he’ll phone up in a fluster wanting to know minutiae of things I can’t remember, but when I ask him what the tax implication is, turns out it’s usually nothing or next to nothing.

When the bailiff is at the door, you can’t pay back your debt with economics. They use arithmetic.

It doesn’t quite work like that for countries.

I’ll happily admit I know bugger all.

Ok, so maybe you are accepting the ‘facts’ that confirm what you want to believe, and considering the rest as untrue? This is called confirmation bias and needs to be watched out for.

molgrips – Member

It doesn’t quite work like that for countries.

OK, economics is the bullshit you use to borrow more than you can pay back?

I’ll master it one day… 🙂

Yes, and it works too.

In simple terms, countries borrow against their future ability to pay back. Like companies do when they invest to grow. Quite normal, just not for individuals.

molgrips – Member
When the bailiff is at the door, you can’t pay back your debt with economics. They use arithmetic.
It doesn’t quite work like that for countries.

I’ll happily admit I know bugger all.
Ok, so maybe you are accepting the ‘facts’ that confirm what you want to believe, and considering the rest as untrue? This is called confirmation bias and needs to be watched out for.

What facts am I getting wrong?

Scotland will get a share of assets.
Scotland will get a share of debt.
Scotland will have a deficit.
Scotland will be able to manage this.

Ben, try the BOE website, it will clear it up. How much does the accountant get paid BTW?

Lets see what that does to the value of the pound eh?

Well, at least this bit was correct – pound weaker, UK borrowing costs up today (good job they balance each other) – but don’t say we haven’t been warned.

If you are a cash-rich exporter you will be happy with the yS shenanigans at least.

Who’s claiming that scotland won’t come out of the negotiations with a share of the deficit(and don’t say Salmond, surely we can all agree that’s just a starting position).

I don’t think even Alex is suggesting Scotland won’t have a share of the deficit! As for the debt, well he is currently claiming that is a possibility, whatever the reason. But then for an economist he does seem to get awfully confused about such things.

What facts am I getting wrong?

That’s a question you should be asking yourself, not me.

Enough of the Scottish subsidy myth

I do like the hand waving to get rid of the last £624 – do they not have proper figures for that? But then we know the details aren’t important.

Given that he is proposing a possible technical default as a so-called negotiating strategy perhaps he doesn’t understand what a deficit is either.

Clue Alex, your pipe dreams will require considerable debt financing, so good idea to keep investors onside.

molgrips – Member
What facts am I getting wrong?
That’s a question you should be asking yourself, not me.

Are any of the 4 statements I made wrong?

aracer – Member

I don’t think even Alex is suggesting Scotland won’t have a share of the deficit! you cling on to typos, good strategy that! 😉

you cling on to typos, good strategy that!

I douficit it was actually a typo

(whoops)