Osbourne says no to currency union.

“Project feart” again I see. 😉

Imagine a government with Nigel and Boris in the cabinet. The chance of that happening, no matter if only slight for now, should be enough for anyone to vote Yes.

I’m sorry about this, but I do have to ask the question… If the Scots vote for independence, next month, will I need a passport to go up to Islay and Jura in October? Only my wife’s has expired and getting a new one is proving a long-winded process.

Yes, of course you will. How else will you get past the security kiosks, sniper towers and barbed wire fences?

More Nigel farage, that’s what we need. He should visit Scotland again in the next few weeks! 😆

bencooper – Member

the UK is not an island.
I’m pretty sure it is, I’ve seen maps and everything.technically it’s an archipelago plus a bit of Ireland.

rene59 – Member
Yes, of course you will. How else will you get past the security kiosks, sniper towers and barbed wire fences?

Sniper towers you say? I’m a decent shot, will there be jobs going after Nige and Boris have gifted you your freedom then?

Here’s a strange thought.
My English friend who lives near Elgin & who has made her life in Scotland is going to vote NO, along with all her friends apparently.
The strange point she makes, is that whilst many of them actually like the idea of Independence they are so distrustful of Mr Salmond that they will not vote for iScotland.
I wonder, is Mr Salmond actually a liability for the Independence movement?

muddydwarf – Member
Here’s a strange thought.
My English friend who lives near Elgin & who has made her life in Scotland is going to vote NO, along with all her friends apparently.
The strange point she makes, is that whilst many of them actually like the idea of Independence they are so distrustful of Mr Salmond that they will not vote for iScotland.
I wonder, is Mr Salmond actually a liability for the Independence movement?

nah most people understand it’s an issue far bigger than personalities. People using salmond as an excuse are just picking something to justify what would always be a no vote. There’s no convincing them anyhow.

Fair enough, it did seem strange to support the idea of independence yet turn it down because of Mr Salmond – although he does come across as particularly slimy and untrustworthy even amongst the current crop of politicians.

although he does come across as particularly slimy and untrustworthy even amongst the current crop of politicians.

You sure about that?

Elections and the like are always about personalities

Salmond has consistently tried to get CMD to debate with him, refusing to debate with anyone else at one point.
Why should it matter who he debates with if the person is unimportant?

bencooper – Member

the UK is not an island.

I’m pretty sure it is, I’ve seen maps and everything.[/quote]
for most of the period you were describing, the UK was two pretty big islands (and a whole bunch of mostly insignificant ones). presently it includes a reasonable chunk of the island of Ireland – and you should at least be aware of Northern Ireland if you’re dissecting the constitutional arrangements of the UK; after all, it’s a part of rUK with which you’d like to see a maritime border established…you ought to know your neighbours!

I ask if you’re a religious man because you seem very skeptical of evolution. you probably wouldn’t design a human body in the way Homo sapiens is now if you were starting afresh (appendices ffs!) but they’ve evolved to be a fairly decent machine. and in the same way with the UK and its constitutional arrangements…

in any case, to those who are fans of written constitutions per se – why in practice?

does anyone know who a written constitution would interact with Scottish law? does anyone understand Scottish law for that matter? do judge-made precedent and common law evolution even exist in some way within the system? I’m completely ignorant…

FWIW,any polling shows Alex Salmond to be the most trusted of any party leaders , even amongst non-SNP voters. The press has run a non-stop campaign against him so it’s hardly surprising that you might think the opposite.

A no vote will be quite boring! A yes vote will be fascinating, will Scotland join the EU, what will their currency be? Was no to CU just a bargaining position? Will AS lies and bluster unravel into a mess, or will he pull it off! Which economist was right? Who will be able to say ‘I told you so’ on this thread!! A yes vote will be so much fun 🙂

^this!

No idea of how Mr Salmond is portrayed by the Scottish press, in the media i read (the i/ Independent) he gets quite a balanced level of coverage i think.
However, on TV he’s awful, comes across as really unpleasant, slimy and completely untrustworthy – i rank him alongside Osborne and Cameron in those stakes.
Of course, that’s just my perception but my friend in Elgin does appear to share some of those views about Mr Salmond.
I don’t have a vote of course, so my opinion is worthless.

I don’t have a vote of course, so my opinion is worthless.

Correct. 😉

In Scotland. Remember that the rest of the UK has an interest in what happens, it isn’t all about Scotland, the UK is our country too and we will have a voice next year.

Yip, and think how you would feel if you were in the following position:- In 2015, it is very likely indeed that we will be governed from Westminster by a Government with absolutely no elected MP’s in our country.

technically it’s an archipelago plus a bit of Ireland.

Pedants will be first against the wall in an independent Scotland, along with people who talk in the cinema.

People using salmond as an excuse are just picking something to justify what would always be a no vote. There’s no convincing them anyhow.

Yup, a friend of a friend on FB is voting No because they haven’t dualled the A9 yet. Oh, and because of all the Polish kids in his son’s class.

for most of the period you were describing, the UK was two pretty big islands (and a whole bunch of mostly insignificant ones). presently it includes a reasonable chunk of the island of Ireland – and you should at least be aware of Northern Ireland if you’re dissecting the constitutional arrangements of the UK; after all, it’s a part of rUK with which you’d like to see a maritime border established…you ought to know your neighbours!

My basic point was that one very good reason Britain/UK/England has had a relatively stable system of government for so long is that the English Channel made it a lot harder for rampaging armies to invade. Compare it to the German city states, for example, who were always invading each other or being over-run by Poles or Swedes.

I ask if you’re a religious man because you seem very skeptical of evolution.

Good straw man argument there, well done 😉

Charming:

scotroutes – Member
FWIW,any polling shows Alex Salmond to be the most trusted of any party leaders , even amongst non-SNP voters. The press has run a non-stop campaign against him so it’s hardly surprising that you might think the opposite.

One of the best yet 🙂

Dinner with Scots family on holiday last night – all no across the generations including Mum and daughter who both work in NHS in Glasgow (completely refuted AS comments in NHS). One of their telling lines was, ” the English must really hate us/all of this”. Overstating it a bit, but at least they got the irritation factor. But then again they were discerning as their voting intentions showed.

AS gets a more balanced presentation that most. The media are happy to cover the bulk of his hogwash without critical comment allowing nonsense like the currency, bedroom tax, oil prices, nukes etc to affect perception/debate. He gets away with “media murder” of the truth (as the fleeing rats are now happy to admit as they swim to shore.)

Love the irony of it’s not about Salmond and yet loads of pictures of English Tories. Is it about CMD and Osborne alone?

Thankfully Charles Baillie and his so called Britanniaca Party is an ex-BNP nobody whom almost no-one votes for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannica_Party

I really don’t think he is in anyway representative of the No campaign.

True Rene, but Ben likes to keep us all entertained with these photos!

Good straw man argument there, well done

That wasn’t a straw man argument in the slightest.

Love the irony of it’s not about Salmond and yet loads of pictures of English Tories. Is it about CMD and Osborne alone?

No, it’s about this lot too.

That wasn’t a straw man argument in the slightest.

Sure it is – you came out with that idea that I was skeptical of evolution so I must be religious, and tried to tie that to a discussion about systems of government.

Evolution via natural selection is in no way comparable to the evolution of systems of government – there’s just no comparison.

RIC massive canvass results [/url]
The results of a canvass of 18000 people completely fly in the face of most other polls. Could it be because ric have targeted people in deprived areas.

Sure it is – you came out with that idea that I was skeptical of evolution so I must be religious, and tried to tie that to a discussion about systems of government.

Even if that were what happened, that’s not what a straw man argument is! Are you sure you understand what the term you’ve been so happy to chuck around actually means?

gordimhor – Member
RIC massive canvass results
The results of a canvass of 18000 people completely fly in the face of most other polls. Could it be because ric have targeted people in deprived areas.

While that is encouraging there’s still enough undecideds to swing it the wrong way.

I see oil is going to be the next big Project Fear push. Apparently it has run out. I’m off to the shed to eBay my spare cans. I’m going to make a fortune… 🙂

24 days to go.

SNP accused of exaggerating North Sea oil reserves by up to 60%

“Sir Ian Wood, the most influential figure in the Scottish oil industry, has accused Alex Salmond’s government of exaggerating North Sea oil reserves by up to 60%”.

epicyclo – Member

I see oil is going to be the next big Project Fear push. Apparently it has run out.

I’m sure that silly and childish comments like that ^ which are clearly designed to trivialise and ridicule what is undeniably a highly important and relevant issue in the referendum debate, help to explain why the Yessers are trailing all the credible opinion polls, which unlike the “RIC massive canvass” don’t focus on one section of Scottish society.

The need to rely on puerile retorts in response to serious issues speaks volumes.

+1

The Emperor’s New Clothes – although emperor only fists the size of the ergo and extent of the vanity involved.

I wonder of there will be any truth re the NHS tomorrow. Best not to hold my breath……

Well sorry to disappoint folks, but it seems our household will be single-handedly determining the outcome of the vote. At least if we get sent any more voting cards…. I’m on three and the other half is on two.

Bidding starts at 50p, all payments by Paypal gift!

I had heard tell of that from somewhere else honeybadgerx – got 6 different polling cards for long gone tenants.

“Sir Ian Wood, the most influential figure in the Scottish oil industry, has accused Alex Salmond’s government of exaggerating North Sea oil reserves by up to 60%”.

Whereas:

THE UK’s leading offshore oil industry body has dismissed claims by Sir Ian Wood that the Scottish Government’s predictions for North Sea oil recovery are too high.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/oil-the-last-gasp-scare-story-fails.25123685

It’s all too confusing for my little Scottish brain to handle – best leave the oil to Westminster to deal with, it’s such a burden.

It’s all too confusing for my little Scottish brain to handle – best leave the oil to Westminster to deal with, it’s such a burden.

So this need to rely on silly childish comments in place of sensible debate is widespread among Yessers?

And on the 19th of Sept you will wonder where it all went wrong.

From your link Ben :

On Friday Melfort Campbell, the chair of a Scottish government commission into the future of North Sea oil, said the 24 billion figure was an “aspirational scenario” which could be won if there was a radical review of fiscal and regulatory regimes and “improved stewardship” of the North Sea.

But he cautioned: “With current uncertainty, ageing assets, spiralling costs and the challenges of improving production efficiency and attracting investment, we will be hard-pushed to achieve the mid-range scenario of around 15-16 billion let alone the holy grail of 24 billion barrels.”

So the chair of a Scottish government commission into the future of North Sea oil feels it might be a struggle to achieve Wood’s claim of 15-16 billion let alone the 24 billion barrels claimed by the Scottish government.

Obviously you will feel that liberated from the shackles of Westminster Scotland will be free to increase investment, efficiency, and infrastructures.

But whatever the uncertainties about future production of Scottish North Sea oil the one certainty is that Scotland should not rely on the certainty of North Sea oil for future prosperity.

North Sea oil is not a magic wand.

So this need to rely on silly childish comments in place of sensible debate is widespread among Yessers?

I don’t know – I think it’s important to have a sense of humour in this. I also think that sensible debate is beyond the abilities of this forum, so I’m just having fun with it.

But whatever the uncertainties about future production of Scottish North Sea oil the one certainty is that Scotland should not rely on the certainty of North Sea oil for future prosperity.

We’re not. If the oil ran out tomorrow, or if Scotland decided to leave it all where it is for environmental reasons (my preferred option) then the Scottish economy would still be fine. It’s a nice bonus to have and save for the future, it’s not a necessity.

….if Scotland decided to leave it all where it is for environmental reasons (my preferred option)

So you reject the Scottish government’s claim it makes in “the case for independence” that a Norwegian style sovereign wealth fund is vital and only achievable through a yes vote.

One of Yes Scotland’s central arguments is that North Sea oil has been squandered, a very fair point imo, and that it should instead be invested in the future, again a fair point imo, but you would rather just leave it under the sea.

So when Yes Scotland occasionally offers a reasonable argument with some rather valid points you reject it. How bizarre.