Osbourne says no to currency union.

oldbloke –

“All the debt accrued up to the point of independence belongs legally to the Treasury, as they confirmed last month – and Scotland can’t default on debt that’s not legally ours. However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and – contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

That’s not what it said at all. It said what I said it said.

THM – this referendum has got nothing to do with Alex Salmond. Scotland will be an independent country long after he is dead and gone.

So which part of that quote which talks about not taking debt unless we get Sterling (the white paper proposal for CU) supports your assertion?

The more I have read the more I have been convinced it will be no.
So thought about putting a small bet on.

Don’t think I will bother.

So Rene, your man is now pushing his Plan Ab (plan D to the rest of us) ie, sterlingisation that is no control over monetary policy and no lender if last resort (is this guy for real?). So tell me what happens to taxes and spending in a situation when you have a run a fiscal surplus in that environment. Clue it involves cutting spending and raising taxes – not quite what was on the yS menu was it, but very typical of the outright deceit demonstrated throughout the campaign yet again.

Now there are some radical Isaac going round including the ultra libertarian one of no lender of last resort is good for banking (blimey the SNP to the right of thatcher) but cutting spending to create a more equal society is a new one for many. This magic drawer of policies is really quite something.

I was going to type up a reply to your question, but to be honest I have no idea what you’re saying here. I have no man. You are coming across more rabid by the day. I would suggest you take a break from this thread, but I don’t think you would listen.

I have no idea what you do for a living, but if you are half as good at dishing out economic advice and advising on currency policy as your posts suggests you think you are, then I can only assume you operate somewhere at the top. Maybe advising the Government on policy, or working for one of the big financial institutions? Either way don’t your employers want you back?

However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and – contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and – contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and – contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

There you go in triplicate just to give it a chance to sink in.

In simple terms it says we’ll pay our debts if you pay yours.

So does then DO

BS – the irony of you misrepresenting his position whilst saying he is the DO is comedy gold.
BTW this is his words, from the scotsman, not your twisted and deceitful interpretation of them – did you not warn us to not just read the headline 😳 Deary me THM

All the debt accrued up to the point of independence belongs legally to the Treasury, as they confirmed last month – and Scotland can’t default on debt that’s not legally ours. However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and – contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

Do you have a direct quote [ including reference and context] where AS says they will walk away?
Everything I have seen is a threat as a negotiation position

Can you support your claim he has said they will walk away?
the position is assets and debts go hand in hand which is hardly a ludicrous negotiating position.

Whoops, Crawford Beveridge, Chair of the Fiscal Commission Working Group, seems to have blown the covers off!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11044798/Entirely-possible-Scotland-wont-share-pound-after-independence-Alex-Salmonds-top-economist-admits.html

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-alex-salmonds-currency-4076218

“People aren’t rationale as we know. So it’s entirely possible that we would get to the Yes and, because so many people have planned so much around the statements they have made in advance, they would say ‘despite the fact this is going to be bad for England, we’re not going to do it.'”

I do not disagree…anything is possible when you have squabbling politicians – well anything but mature exchange of ideas – as STW often proves 😉

Its probably not enough to convince THM nor stop him claiming it is a vanity project pfft facts

William Hill are giving odds THM makes no comment and goes on about economics instead 😉

Its interesting how the final arguments are shaping up, up here.

Basically the big issues going into the final stretch of the campaigns are; Better together brings it down to a single issue with the pound, yes Scotland counters with the destruction of the NHS. Both sides are pretty weak in the their defence to the respective attacks.

Quite interesting, obviously I’m heavily biased but the NHS seems the stronger argument to me, the NHS is ingrained in the public psyche of Scotland and the no camp can’t get the yes camp to budge on the position that we will be using anything but the pound.

IMO its widely believed that the Westminster politicians are lying when it comes to the pound. And its almost universally accepted that the NHS will be privatised in England in the not too distant future.

Junkyard – lazarus

William Hill are giving odds THM makes no comment and goes on about economics instead

Well, as soon as he’s admitted he was caught fibbing about election results I’m sure he’ll get right on it (how many times has he accused other people of being deceitful since that post? One million?)

And its almost universally accepted that the NHS will be privatised in England in the not too distant future.

That’s not really a Scottish issue, is it ?

IMO its widely believed that the Westminster politicians are lying when it comes to the pound.

I really doubt it, the rUK parties all know it would be electoral suicide in the rUK general election in 2015 to offer a currency union to the Scots who get a better deal out of the arrangement than the rUK. The likely relocation of much of the Scots financial sector into rUK should a CU not be negotiated would be extra bonus in terms of GDP and jobs. Whether it be voters in Bradford or Thanet or Merthyr Tydfil I don’t see any driver for a soft deal for the Scots that the rUK essentially funds

ernie_lynch – Member
And its almost universally accepted that the NHS will be privatised in England in the not too distant future.
That’s not really a Scottish issue, is it ?

the jist of it is…The budget gets set at Westminster. So if the budget gets reduced in England due to privatisation it gets reduced in Scotland. A function of the Barnett formula.

That’s not really a Scottish issue, is it ?

It is, in multiple ways:

Why Voting No threatens Scotland’s NHS

Wanman…who’s words are at the top of the page. If they are AS ‘s no surprise. Yet again deliberately confusing matters. The currency is not an asset to be shared, never has been , never can be. That is simply a lie as despite what I said on the last page, he is a trained economist and DOES know the difference but prefers to lie to fool the people of Scotland.

As soon as he starts on that one and trying to confuse assets and debt then you know he has lost. Because that by definition is a basic deception. And judging from the above, people fall for it. As I said hundreds if pages ago it’s the missing dollar tick that conjures use all the time. But in this case it is not a joke rather the leader of yS deliberately lying to everyone. Shameful.

Fortunately anyone can go to the BOE website and look at the balance sheet. Surprise, surprise currency is a liability along side borrowings. So the DO says we will only compensate for your liabilities if we can have your liabilities. Confused? That’s exactly what he want you to be (yes, Rene do it for a living (and was taught by the same people who taught salmond) so helps to understand it and not be fooled by the DO)

NW nothing fibbing about the election results at all. The democratic deficit is another misrepresentation used by yS.

Plus, and this bit is just my opinion, when labour get back in up here. They’ll just do what their leaders tell them what to do and bring holyrood policy as close to westministers as they can.

The likely relocation of much of the Scots financial sector into rUK should a CU not be negotiated would be extra bonus in terms of GDP and jobs.

Not seen the thing about Wall St banks making contingency plans to move from the UK to Ireland in case the UK leaves the EU? That’s an order of magnitude bigger than banks maybe leaving Scotland.

Just spent half an hour watching ronnie Corbett on YouTube off the back of bens offering.

Forget the NHS, it is completely screwed.
Last time I called an ambulance for a friend who’s hip had came out, he had to wait 2 hours in the ambulance outside the hospital to be processed.
And when he did get in the staff were handing out complaints forms begging people to fill them in as they could not cope.one doctor said they had fourteen ambulances qued up outside waiting to bring in people a few days before.

Then a few days later I heard a GP ring up LBC complaining he took his young son to A&E the night before and was disgusted that at least half the people attending should not be there but instead should see their GP.

To which the presenter said do you not think you are partially to blame because it can take weeks to get an appointment, you opted out of working weekends and won’t do home visits.

To which he replied I could not possibly do home visits as I have over 2000 patients on my books, how could I visit all of them.
I never wanted to slap someone as much in my life.

You see on the news one day A&Es being closed down.
Then a couple of months later the goverment announcing that the A&Es are over subscribed and can’t cope, and you find yourself shouting at the TV “no shit Sherlock”.

If Scotland could provide a functioning NHS I would move there.

No Ben (links? *) but the Aussie head if the Clydesdale made his opinions well known in the FT today. Imagine running a bank without a lender of last resort. What does that do to your funding costs, and your mortgage costs? And this is what represents nirvana????

* so you are the boss of Citi or BoAML and you want to locate in London with a bank friendly regulation and vibrant capital markets or in Dublin? Hmmmmm, not a tough choice.

If Scotland could provide a functioning NHS I would move there.

We do. Every experience I’ve had with NHS Scotland has been outstanding.

Not seen the thing about Wall St banks making contingency plans to move from the UK to Ireland in case the UK leaves the EU?

Contingency planning? You mean having a ‘plan B’ in case things don’t go the way you were hoping?

Thats a ‘king radical concept isn’t it? 😆

Ben, hats off to you mate. I love your posts!

Forget the NHS, it is completely screwed.

Not where I stay it’s not and I hope we continue to keep it that way.

If Scotland could provide a functioning NHS I would move there.

Why not then? Just one of many good reasons to.

So if the budget gets reduced in England due to privatisation

You believe claims that privatisation in healthcare reduces costs ? Why ?

Increased private sector involvement in the NHS has been going on years, right back to the days of New Labour (it doubled in their last 4 years in power), yet during that period the NHS budget hasn’t fallen, in fact it has increased.

With that in mind further private sector involvement in the English and Welsh NHS should be good news for Scotland.

ernie_lynch – Member
So if the budget gets reduced in England due to privatisation
You believe claims that privatisation in healthcare reduces costs ? Why ?

I believe the ultimate target is to dismantle free at the point of use and start charging and get people buying up insurance policies creating a 2 tier system. Maybe not from labour but from the Tories, most definitely. I don’t have confidence in the Tories being out of government all that much over the next 20/30 years.

You believe claims that privatisation in healthcare reduces costs ? Why ?

How do private companies win contracts? By having nicer logos? By treating their staff better? No, they win contracts by being cheaper.

Not seen the thing about Wall St banks making contingency plans to move from the UK to Ireland in case the UK leaves the EU? That’s an order of magnitude bigger than banks maybe leaving Scotland.

being outside EU regulation would probably increase the attractiveness of rUK as a financial centre

but EU exit is unlikely, and if we did we would very likely remain part of the EEA in any case

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/11040484/EU-exit-could-force-Wall-Street-banks-to-desert-Britain.html

http://rt.com/uk/181340-us-banks-desert-britain/

http://www.dw.de/us-banks-said-to-weigh-uk-exit-if-britain-leaves-eu/a-17860190

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/17/uk-britain-eu-banks-idUKKBN0GH0PX20140817

So can we say the lovebombing is over now?

I believe the ultimate target is to dismantle the free at the point of use and start charging.

Well I can’t argue with that because you are entitled to believe whatever you want to believe. And you know better than I do what you believe.

I could say that I believe the ultimate goal of Alex Salmond is to declare himself Emperor of Scotland and rule by decree.

But let’s stick with known facts.

I believe the ultimate target is to dismantle free at the point of use and start charging and get people buying up insurance policies creating a 2 tier system. Maybe not from labour but from the Tories, most definitely.

very unlikely, too many groups in society (including me) would never vote for it.

the financial efficiency advantages of a free at point of use system are enormous when looked at a society level, the issue is managing the costs whilst improving outcomes especially when the PFI bubble really starts to bite

bencooper – Member

How do private companies win contracts? By having nicer logos? By treating their staff better? No, they win contracts by being cheaper.

Which must mean that the US spends a lot less on healthcare than us then. So why don’t they ?

BTW, do you know if many of these so-called lefties who are backing YS also agree with you that privatisation reduces costs ?

Well quite a few (lefties) are now fans of the Adam Smith Institute Ernie, so god know where they will end up by the end of all this

They want to start charging people for drink related injuries.
That would be the thin end of the wedge.
Next it would be smoking related illnesses.
Then it will be sports related, what’s that, you fell of your bike while hammering it down a rocky descent breaking your clavicle , that was a stupid thing to do. Out comes the big self inflicted rubber stamp and credit card reader.

And before you know it unless you are struck by lightning while sat in a comfy chair in your living room whilst wearing thick socks and listening to whale song you will find your self some how responsible and reaching for your bank card.

So can we say the lovebombing is over now?

I’ll give you a hug when I’m next up in Scotland 😀

I think some people in rUK want the Union to continue and are happy for more devolution within the UK

I also think some people think that if you don’t want to be part of the club then go but don’t expect any favours, and there are shades of grey in between

I’m in the former group until you vote Yes then I’m in the latter

breaking the Union will change many things that make the UK a great place to be, changes to institutions will be significant and we will both be diminished. What I’m not going to support is in addition to the costs of separation to rUK is cough up any more money or any sovereignty to give you independence “lite”

but at least my kids can have a University education without tuition fees if you vote Yes so it’s not all bad 😉

ernie_lynch – Member

But let’s stick with known facts.a tad difficult when speaking about the future.

I won’t need to use the NHS much in the next 30 years, touch wood. So facts as they current are are fairly irrelevant to me.

At the moment though my experience of the Scottish NHS throw family member is very positive. I see no need to turn it into a market.

Must admit I’m quite surprised at your approval of the marketisation of the NHS. Always had you down more to the left.

So facts as they current are are fairly irrelevant to me.

So let’s talk about hypotheticals instead ?

Must admit I’m quite surprised at your approval of the market is at I on of the NHS.

🙄

vote “yes” and you wont get Eastenders…. got to be a vote winner

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11044573/Lord-Birt-Independent-Scotlands-viewers-must-pay-extra-for-BBC.html