Osbourne says no to currency union.

And, really, the “powers” suggested aren’t a help.

Well make your mind up – they are essentially what the DO is calling for. He doesn’t want independence, just a little bit more ego-juice.

So Scotland will have to set up a whole new tax department and bureaucracy, at great expense, and won’t get any more money because of it.

Where is the smiley Ben? That is a corker…

The only logical choice is to vote to be able to decide these things for ourselves, not rely on Westminster promises – we know what they’re worth.

And yet, you still are going to have Westminster (as a foreign country) dictating you main instruments of policy. You only get more ability to do much less. That’s a crock….

At least the DO seems to have read part of the FC report today and is tempering his views in sterlingisation. Which way is the wind blowing today, Alex?

God knows but I would imagine they would give a period of grace but it is just a guess. Would also be an issue for scots living in england and english in scotland though ; that would be a proper mess that i assume all would want to avoid.

Don’t forget EU citizens in Scotland – the Sturgeon told us “If Scotland was outside ­Europe, they would lose the right to stay here,”

Where is the smiley Ben? That is a corker…

I knew someone would pick up on that 😉

Yes, if we have independence we also have to set up that tax system and bureaucracy – the difference is it’ll be ours to control everything, and we’ll have more money to pay for it with as we’ll control all government income, not just a part of it.

Not paying maintenance costs for Trident alone will probably cover it.

Does that include the rate of corporation tax, Ben? How is that going to be set? At a discount to what?

Ninfan that is a given as it is just the reverse question. Howevre when a ys voter/politician states this fact its a threat.

Well, it would be a threat, and no, it isn’t a given – since to exclude or remove any rights from EU citizens as revenge for losing their own freedom of movement would be a tit for tat decision entirely of the new iScottish governments own making.

A freeeeeeee Yorkshire will not have all the trappings of it’s former colonial masters and their hangers on. Our own currency, Not members of the EU unless they beg us an let us set the rules and pay us, no royal family unless they pay their way and live here as a visitor attraction, an independent nuclear deterrent against marauding Scots (given their history) and southern Jessies (given their thieving tendencies).

Only the most stupid would vote for independence while hoping thing will not change much, other than not be told what to do by those they don’t like. We need change we need Freedom for Yorkshire and we need it to be free (we’ll not be ripped off).

ninfan – Member
Well, it would be a threat, and no, it isn’t a given – since to exclude or remove any rights from EU citizens as revenge for losing their own freedom of movement would be a tit for tat decision entirely of the new iScottish governments own making.

you live on a different planet! 😆

Love the direction of your arguments though, you always come at it from a line of things are bad if they aren’t the same as they currently are in the perfect UK system.

I’ll give you a wee clue, the point of independence is change!

What rights ? they are not in the EU and those rights have lapsed as iS is not longer a member and those lwas no longer apply – just like the EU.
it also wont be iS who allowed to them to lapse it will be the EU- clearly iS want to remain.
However though you are correct when the EU causes this scenario and iS does the same as the EU obviously only iS are the baddies and issuing threats which is why i said it.

I am glad you are here to bring principles and clarity to the debate

Thanks.

Seosamh:

You see, I think that the politicians who go around threatening to throw their dollies out the pram every five minutes that live on a different planet

if we don’t get currency union, we’ll default on our debt,
if we don’t get EU citizenship, we’ll remove Europeans right to live here,
if we don’t get EU membership, we’ll ban EU fishing boats from passing through international waters

Junky:

when the EU causes this scenario and iS does the same as the EU obviously only iS are the baddies and issuing threats which is why i said it.

Hmm, you see its not the EU causing this scenario is it? its Scotland that has expressed a plan to leave, knowing full well that if they leave, they will have to reapply to get back in.

You see, I think that the politicians who go around threatening to throw their dollies out the pram every five minutes live on a different planet

if we don’t get currency union, we’ll default on our debt,
if we don’t get EU citizenship, we’ll remove Europeans right to live here,
if we don’t get EU membership, we’ll ban EU fishing boats from passing through international waters
I’m all confused now. Is that bullying or negotiating?

If only everyone could be as reasonable and principled as you
Why wont these scots just give everyone everything they wont and be whilst getting nothing back

Ungrateful threatening picts eh removing the EU citizenship by not being allowed to join the thing they want to join

if we don’t get EU citizenship, we’ll remove Europeans right to live here,

That is the wrong way round they have not removed it the EU wont let them in so the law and obligation no longer exists IN BOTH DIRECTIONS

just give everyone everything they wont and be whilst getting nothing back

Like Currency Union 😆

not being allowed to join the thing they want to join

Don’t leave then 😆

Nine fan I don’t understand your concern with EU citizens being able to live and work in Scotland,over the right of Scottish people being to live and work in other eu countries .

Surely a non EU Scotland could legislate to allow citizens of other nations to live and work in Scotland, it is the other way around you will have no control over.

ninfan – Member
Seosamh:

You see, I think that the politicians who go around threatening to throw their dollies out the pram every five minutes that live on a different planet

if we don’t get currency union, we’ll default on our debt,
if we don’t get EU citizenship, we’ll remove Europeans right to live here,
if we don’t get EU membership, we’ll ban EU fishing boats from passing through international waters

aye the UK never bully anyone, ever! 😆

That’s politics, you adopt a negotiating position and work from there. These positions aren’t always fluffy and nice.

and well you know that.

Ninfan I don’t understand your concern with EU citizens being able to live and work in Scotland,over the right of Scottish people being to live and work in other eu countries .

Surely a non EU Scotland could legislate to allow citizens of other nations to live and work in Scotland, it is the other way around you will have no control over.

I agree completely

Its Nicola Sturgeon that says otherwise

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/sturgeon-warns-europeans-could-lose-right-to-stay-1-3475453

chip – Member

Surely a non EU Scotland could legislate to allow citizens of other nations to live and work in Scotland, it is the other way around you will have no control over.Scotland will not kick out EU citizens. It’s utterly ridiculous to think we would.

Like Currency Union

Well done you did some posts on the same point before massively changing direction …well done keep taking those baby steps

That’s politics, you adopt a negotiating position and work from there.

Of course you run the risk the other person says ‘nah, f*ck it, we don’t need you that much, bye!’

[/quote]

We want greater independence than we have now so we want to join the EU…..it’s hard to make this stuff up. Do the words, “ceding national sovereignty” (Mark Carney) need simplifying into noddy and big ears lingo for the DO to get it?

The DO is clearly uncomfortable with being independent hence his desire to remain integrated within the UK and eUrope. Talk about a complete deceit. Pretty much every main proposal involves ceding not gaining sovereignty. And the vote is for what exactly?

It’s odd that a (minority admittedly) are prepared to place their faith in people who are so staggeringly ill-prepared for the potential upheaval ahead of them. Forget leap of faith, leap of folly more like.

seosamh77 – Member
Scotland will not kick out EU citizens. It’s utterly ridiculous to think we would.

In a series of ridiculous things from the (thankfully quiet) dear Nicola

Scotland will not kick out EU citizens. It’s utterly ridiculous to think we would.

Agreed, but when the Dep First Minister suggests it, the ridiculous becomes a possibility.

ninfan – Member
That’s politics, you adopt a negotiating position and work from there.
Of course you run the risk the other person says ‘nah, f*ck it, we don’t need you that much, bye!’

yip, large % of us understand that and are more than willing to accept it.

It’s amazing how far away this discussion is with what’s happening in Scotland.

We understand there are risks and benefits.

yip, large % of us understand that and are more than willing to accept it.

Looking at the polls, not a large enough percentage to try it 😆

PS. – Secretly, I’m hoping that you win, just to see Salmond’s face when he’s having to explain to the Scottish people how its all gone wrong, the EU aren’t letting you back in and Westminister won’t give you a currency union – Doomed, we’re all Doomed 😆

ninfan – Member
yip, large % of us understand that and are more than willing to accept it.
Looking at the polls, not a large enough percentage to try it

You see that large undecided section of the polls. They are largely leaning towards Yes.

The vote come next month, is not Yes/No/Undecided. It’s Yes/No.

Have you received your polling card yet? 😆

You see that large undecided section of the polls. They are largely leaning towards Yes.

😆

The have you got your polling card jibe is rather silly when you step back and think about it. In the hypothetical situation where enough people are mistaken enough to vote yes the real fun begins.

The rUK will then enter negotiations holding all the trump cards against a counterparty that has rejected a proposal that is in the best interests of everyone and that will cause unnecessary uncertainty and aggravation. The rUK representatives will be held to account by the voters in a general election. So at the end of the day, the votes that really matter will now be taking place south of the border…..a bit like the subsequent policy decisions. You couldn’t make it up.

😆

teamhurtmore – Member
The have you got your polling card jibe is rather silly when you step back and think about it. In the hypothetical situation where enough people are mistaken enough to vote yes the real fun begins.

The rUK will then enter negotiations holding all the trump cards against a counterparty that has rejected a proposal that is in the best interests of everyone and that will cause unnecessary uncertainty and aggravation. The rUK representatives will be held to account by the voters in a general election. So at the end of the day, the votes that really matter will now be taking place south of the border…..a bit like the subsequent policy decisions. You couldn’t make it up.
After the tories get blamed for the break up of the UK, it’ll be a dawdle negotiating with a gormless **** like ed milliband.

Your confidence seems a little misplaced! 😆

Well you are not doing a very good job with darling (remember the predicted bloodbath?) or Alexander, so yet again, I would turn your observation on its head. Your confidence seems a little misplaced.

Blimey offer milk and honey ad infinitum and you still can’t get enough voters. Perhaps they are just canny enough to see through the BS?

teamhurtmore – Member
Well you are not doing a very good job with darling (remember the predicted bloodbath?) or Alexander, so yet again, I would turn your observation on its head. Your confidence seems a little misplaced.

Blimey offer milk and honey ad infinitum and you still can’t get enough voters. Perhaps they are just canny enough to see through the BS?
Loving your confidence! keep it up!

Go steady on Ed miliband, he’s a proper Yorkshire MP you knows.

teamhurtmore – Member
…The rUK will then enter negotiations holding all the trump cards against a counterparty that has rejected a proposal that is in the best interests of everyone and that will cause unnecessary uncertainty and aggravation. The rUK representatives will be held to account by the voters in a general election…

Well if it comes down to not negotiating, I suppose we keep what’s in our borders and you keep what’s in yours.

I’m sure Scotland could get a good price for our nuclear submarines from that nice Mr Putin or perhaps one of the middle east countries. That would cover our setup costs… 🙂

It’s easy having confidence when you are coming from the “correct” side of the debate !!!! You don’t have to rely on making things up or flip-flopping with the wind.

Try it….the BT are the nice guys after all. Look who is becoming negative as the vote gets closer…yS….worried at all?

Epic, that is the kind of stuff that the DO tries to say re debt etc. When you go out into the big bad world on your own, there is no one to hold your hand. Believe it or not you would have to stop behaving like children (debt, taking nukes FFS) and finally start talking and acting responsibly, well your representatives at least.

An iS has a lot of debt to raise to fund all the (false) promises remember. Investors don’t like lending to kids who make silly threats with their obligations.

teamhurtmore – Member
Epic, that is the kind of stuff that the DO tries to say re debt etc. When you go out into the big bad world on your own, there is no one to hold your hand. Believe it or not you would have to stop behaving like children (debt, taking nukes FFS) and finally start talking and acting responsibly, well your representatives at least.

An iS has a lot of debt to raise to fund all the (false) promises remember. Investors don’t like lending to kids who make silly threats with their obligations.more condescending rhetoric, that’s what the better together camp needs!

Carry on! 😆

teamhurtmore – Member
Epic, that is the kind of stuff that the DO tries to say re debt etc. When you go out into the big bad world on your own, there is no one to hold your hand. Believe it or not you would be able to behave like children (debt, taking nukes FFS) and finally start talking and acting responsibly. An iS has a lot of debt to raise to fund all the (false) promises remember.

Exactly. Take a unfair line in the post independence negotiations and then the Scottish govt is under pressure to raise money.

Where to raise it from, debt or disposal of unwanted assets?

What would you do?

A nuclear sub is a high value item so there’s a lot of money sitting right there. Of course, a brandnew aircraft carrier could be worth a few bob too. These are things we don’t want in Scotland so what’s the best way to get rid of them when you need a few bob.

Or are we supposed to hand those over to you even though you won’t share the UK govt assets?

(I suppose if we kept them we could puff out our chests and claim an ability to “punch above our weight” like some pathetic blusterer with delusions of empire and global significance)

Well the complicated stuff doesn’t work (see “cede national sovereignty” above)….

….even the DO fails to understand such simple language, so just bringing it down to his level. Your rep talks and behaves like a kid, and this is the guy that could lead an newly independent state. Blimey, he gets chewed up by darling imagine what would happen in the wider world?

jesus **** wept

I genuinely don’t particularly want anything to do with either side reading this bilge.

Im oot.

Blimey, epic you are sounding more like Ms Kirchner by the day…..? Has a noble nation really stooped this low?

Are you still including currency as an asset BTW? Only asking as it helps to set the context and level.

teamhurtmore – Member
Blimey, epic you are sounding more like Ms Kirchner by the day…..? Has a noble nation really stooped this low?

Are you still including currency as an asset BTW? Only asking as it helps to set the context and level.

Nah, I’m just pointing out that Scotland taking an extreme position is just as pathetic as what we are being threatened with. Reducing the argument to its absurdity, ie countering the BT absurd posturing with an equally unbelievable scenario from our side.

BTW what do you expect to happen if the rUK govt is intransigent and tries to put us up against the wall? That we’ll break down and cry, or come up with a response?

I don’t care what currency we use initially because we’ll either end up on the Euro or have our own pound in the end.