Osbourne says no to currency union.

The disappointment gauge is running at moderate high levels.

Still, in other news the Girlfriend has today landed a promotion. So that was quite good.

athgray – Member
Seosamh. I almost agree with you. Thought Salmond edged it but the quality

maybe but I think salmond unwillingness to spell out the other currency options(which are there) is detrimental. I understand why he doesn’t do it. (The debate would decent into talking about the pros and cons of the other options. So the stoney face responce is more preferable. And just take the the hit on that.)

Yes, he was trying to make an academic point (that the currency commission made several suggestions, a currency union is the preferred one) but academic points don’t work well in debate.

I think this adds to the debate

I loved the guy in the audience who said something along the lines of the rUK will have to have a currency union because without oil money helping the balance of payments the pound would be doomed.

I never realised we were too poor to go it alone. Are we too wee and too stupid as well. Don’t nats complain about this one? 🙄

I think you may have just proved that their are idiots on both sides of the debate

Missed it all but then again Tuesday is night ride and i thought it was not worth giving up for what was a fairly predictable “debate”

The issue is how the dont knows respond in the closing days.

Salmond squirming on currency was as good as it got as a no voter. Darling was too easily rattled.
If I was Salmond I would have outlined the other options, and I reckon it would not have done him much harm.

Darling did not give a straight answer on whether an independent Scotland would be successful going it alone. Salmond did not give a straight answer on currency again. There is enough information available for Scots to know that they would have a successful economy it is a bit of a shame that they still don’t know what currency they would be using.

bad night for Salmond

Just got in, did I miss owt!?!

Did the master politician with all his rhetorical skills mash the rabbit?

What was the DOs magic rabbit, did he mention plan D – he must have answered the currency question at least.

Was a bit shite, same old lines trotted out from both sides. Both had a shaky start. The way Darling kept pronouncing Scotland got on my tits. Thought Salmond just had the edge, but seen a lot better from others on either sides.

I think Cameron could have turned up and done no worse. Here, here rene59.

Blimey the ICM poll even has the DO losing a debate v a rabbit. Surely not!?!?

And no plan D, no wonder he was booed! The mirage exposed?

you mean the debate poll showed the outcome to be the same as the voting intentions. Who would have thunk it
FWIW it was

The poll recorded a 4% increase in backing for independence, putting the yes vote at 40% compared to 54% for no

Vote revealed before the vote [ you forgot to mention that one for some reason 😉 ]

An instant ICM poll of viewers for the Guardian said Darling had won the debate by 56% to 44%.

So not much changed but momentuum with yes but still unlikely to be enough to win it.

I think we both made the right decision to ride tbh

“Blimey the ICM poll even has the DO losing a debate v a rabbit. Surely not!?!?
And no plan D, no wonder he was booed! The mirage exposed?”

I hope one day we find a Rosetta Stone that can decode this dense web of nicknames, puns and allusions. there must surely be great wisdom handed down from our elders within it.

Among undecideds (i.e. The only ones who matter) the ICM poll showed 55% thought Salmond won. I think one interesting factor is how this played with Labour voters – it can’t have been good to see a Labour person squirm so much when asked if he agreed with David Cameron.

bigjim – Member

bad night for Salmond

Agreed… He did an adequate job but really a nil-nil draw and that’s not what Yes needs to close the gap. Not a disaster but I reckon he’ll be disappointed.

Course, the media coverage was decided before the debate even started so the performance on the night was probably not all that important either way. And we all remember Clegg and Bush winning TV debates.

http://www.icmresearch.com/media-centre/polls/alex-salmond-vs-alastair-darling-independence-referendum-debate

Alastair Darling emerged as a semi-clear winner of the Scottish Independence debate, convincing 56% of the 512 survey participants that he was the better man on the night. 44% opted for Salmond.

Darling performed more solidly among No supporters – securing 93% of them who told us their man won, compared to only 82% of Yes supporters who said Salmond won.

And Darling won on the arguments – a majority (51%) said so, with 40% saying Salmond had the better ideas. On the other hand, Salmond’s undoubted personality helped win over viewers, with 47% saying the First Minister had the better personality compared to only 39% who said so for Darling.

But the question is how does this impact on Indyref vote intentions? The answer is “not much”. Of the sample who participated after the debate, views did not move – 53% said they intended to vote No beforehand, and the same figures emerged afterwards. So Darling won on the night, but voters remain steadfast in the way they plan to vote.

ICM pre-recruited a sample of 1130 people who said they would be watching the debate live and who agreed to complete the survey immediately afterwards. These 1130 people were sent the survey immediately after the actual debate part of programme on STV ended at 9.40pm. All participants were recruited recruited from ICM’s own online panel plus those of two of the biggest suppliers of Scottish panel in the market research industry.

The post-debate survey data is based on 512 completed interviews.

The sample was weighted to be representative of the Scotland population by Age, Gender and Region. We also weighted the results by previous voting behaviour (2011 Holyrood past vote). This allowed us to assess how the debate was received by people from a range of political viewpoints.

It should be stated this this sample was pre-recruited on the basis of watching the debate and being willing to answer questions on it immediately after the debate ended. While we have ‘forced’ it via weighting to be representative of all Scots, it SHOULD NOT be seen as a normal vote intention poll as it is premised on a different population type i.e the profile and nature of Scots who watched the debate is different to a fully nationally representative sample of Scots.

The Gonad has a few links from the blog folk might want to read.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scottish-independence-blog/live/2014/aug/05/alex-salmond-v-alistair-darling-the-debate-for-scotland-live

I particularly liked

Michael White describes the debate as a “non-meeting of minds”

And a pre debate poll
http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/285203-support-for-yes-rises-in-stv-poll-ahead-of-salmond-darling-debate/
I’d like to see the same people asked again in a few days. Long enough for the “debate” to sink in. And the Salmond/Darling personality effects to fade.

Predictably

Both sides claimed victory

Coz there point scoring nobz.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/darling-draws-first-blood.24965560

I only saw a few highlights on the news but I got the biggest laugh when Salmond said Scotland part owned the British Pound. I really can’t believe he’s still trying to take that line. If independent Scotland will have the euro sooner or later, it’s going to have no choice.

He’s now firmly in that group of very special politicians lead by George W Bush.

He who controls the currency controls the country the debate!

When will the DO learn – he needs a plan D and fast.

FT sums it up nicely …but most importantly it helps Mr Darling that the evidence is on his side and that the yes campaign has been more disingenuous than its opponents int he debate. As Mr Darling put it, there is too much “guess work, blond faith (sorry my joke), blind faith and crossed fingers.”

Or linking to yesterday’s debate the first line on another FT article …”AS..struggled to lay out his case for independence.”

Quite, enough said – he doesn’t have one.

Well, it certainly hasn’t changed any minds on here 😉

However it looks as if undecided voters preferred Salmond – which frankly I find surprising but perhaps it was just that he was less rubbish than Darling.

Well, it certainly hasn’t changed any minds on here

However it looks as if undecided voters preferred Salmond – which frankly I find surprising but perhaps it was just that he was less rubbish than Darling.
Well for me (a non voter) it certainly reinforced my views and I see that same behavior reported elsewhere. Also generally reported that the debate was 55/45 (roughly) in favour of No which is same as voting intentions before. I would see this as a victory for No as AS has pushed and pushed for a debate and has come away with nothing, he has made no progress.

Clear progress – the bubble was burst. The so-called great orator, the best politician of our time etc…can’t even beat darling on a topic that he has been preparing for all his political life. Truly pathetic (in the proper sense)

I would see this as a victory for No as AS has pushed and pushed for a debate and has come away with nothing, he has made no progress.

More than that, on Salmond’s chosen timescale he would lead the negotiations in the event of a Yes vote. Last night, in my view, did not reveal the leadership or debating qualities necessary to deliver any kind of result Scotland would need. Quite simply, I do not want that man involved in the determination of my or my kids’ futures.

Not sure you can take the status quo/no chnage as a win [ spin IMHO] but certainly AS has not changed hearts and minds with it [ neither has AD so he did not win]. I am not sure why everyone is falling over themselves to point out they have not changed their opinion and neother has the electorate [ much if at all]

I think we can count on one hand the number of times a STW poster changes their mind [ even when their opinion is clearly at odds with facts]and it will be zero on this thread.

Clear progress – the bubble was burst. The so-called great orator, the best politician of our time etc…can’t even beat darling on a topic that he has been preparing for all his political life. Truly pathetic (in the proper sense) I hate AS

You have admitted your bias [ lack of partiality] so thanks for sharing
I think we were all on the edge of our seats waiting to hear who you thought won and it is a real surprise which way you went 😉

PS I notice you are able to comment on the debate without watching it but you were unable to comment on the dispatches programme because you did not watch that …just saying like obviously we should read nothing into that and I am just trolling eh

JY – well a draw is not enough for the Yes campaign, they are behind they need to win these encounters. Hence last night was not enough, a loss.

I thought the debate did nothing at all for a free Yorkshire.

AS lost the debate last night not because his arguments were weak, but because he was expected to crush Darling. He failed to do this and as such he came out a loser. Darling (and the No camp) have clearly identified a few key points and AS seems reluctant to challenge them.

There is no Plan D – He cannot chose the Euro after the almost collapse of it, a currency union would only work IF Westminster agreed (and in the current political climate that is not going to happen) and a new currency is a huge risk!

There is a plan D – and you can read it in the work of his own advisors. He doesn’t choose it because it involves a greater level of independence!!! Something the DO doesn’t want.

So can we put “the most able politician” tag in the bin where it belongs now?

(True, yes)

a greater level of independence!!! Something the DO doesn’t want.

Just because you keep saying it, doesn’t make it true. No matter how many exclamation marks you add.

Feel free to counter then – it’s a pretty widely held view including many of the broadsheets today. The exclamation marks run as a balance to the time spent waiting for an answer to the independence question!!!!!!!! Etc…….

Godot will have been and gone before we get the answer to that one.

Just because you keep saying it, doesn’t make it true

I appreciate that THM is getting a bit hysterical, but he’s got a point: On a number of key issues where independence can be asserted the Government policy is to cede control of functions which might otherwise define independence.

The proposals for currency union, were it to happen, see Scotland less represented in decision making than under the Union. Scotland will not have the same veto capacity in the EU that UK has and under the draft constitution EU law will become effective in Scotland without being first considered by the Scottish Parliament.

Thank you OB – a more sober representation.

(Tried that a long time back, but got bored 😉 )

I didn’t watch the debate. I’m not interested in watching political posturing. We have been conned by fine words too often, actions are what counts.

I will re-iterate that many independence supporters don’t particularly care for the SNP political party.

Salmond represents the SNP not the whole independence movement. The SNP’s agenda is not necessarily what will be Scotland’s policies unless they actually win the next election or two after independence, and subsequent governments may change that.

What is clear is that Scotland has not thrived in the last 100 years under the Union, so something has to change.

A government with only an independent Scotland’s interests to consider will be a good start.

Not thrived? Really……even the DO can state how well Scotland has performed economically

Good old Mash 😀

Julian Cook, professor of politics at Roehampton University, added: “I suspect a large number of SNP supporters will be slightly concerned at Alex Salmond’s inability to defeat Alistair Darling – a man who once lost a debate to a washing machine.”

English viewers miss Salmond trying to bite Alistair Darling

7k !!!!!!