Osbourne says no to currency union.

Junkyard – lazarus

No he is not , each time he has posted on the point he says he is not bothered.

Of course I’m not bothered, why would I be ffs ?

Firstly I’m not English beyond having lived most of my life in England. My upbringing certainly couldn’t be described as ‘typically English’, English wasn’t even the sole language spoken at home. And neither of my parents have any English, or even British, ancestry.

Secondly the anti-English sentiments expressed by some separatists does their cause absolutely no good whatsoever imo. It is in fact counterproductive as it exposes just how hollow and without any convincing substance their “argument” in favour of separatism really is.

Petty nationalism is the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.

So by all means carry on with the anti-English sentiments, it certainly doesn’t bother me and it does your cause no good as it betrays your lack of reasoned arguments.

It will of course appeal to a small minority of bigots as petty nationalism does everywhere in the world, including in England, but I have no doubt at all that the majority of Scots will treat it with the disdain it deserves.

In the meantime I will continue to point out examples of anti-English sentiments by separatists, whether or not you think it bothers me. And I will continue to point out that your opponents are fellow Scots not the English. Despite all your attempts to derail the debate into a Scot vs English one.

(£14.8bn x 40% x 9%)

Surely the Scottish population is 9% of the whole UK population. If you’re attempting to identify what slice of the 40% non-London contributions are “Scottish”, then it’s going to be more than 9%.

True, makes it more like 10-11%.

Strange how you can call yes voters Mel Gibson wannabes,( with embellishment)yet accuse me of anti English sentiment for pointing out that the people with no say ie English residents such as you,thm zulu have the biggest posting history on this thread. You are obviously desperate to convince yourself that the only reason people support independence is anti English.Arguing with you is tedious, I have stated my reasons for voting yes,if you are too obsessed with something only you seem to see to understand why we are having a vote ( hint, it isn’t because we don’t like the English) then fill your boots.

You’re doing quite well out of it then:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/scotland-given-500m-sop-for-crossrail-6616253.html

2007 – you have had that one banked for a while 😉

one in three English voters now favours a break-up of the union

I assume because they hate all the others as we have established this is the only reason

As that article says, “When is there going to be a north of England bonus?” I said it before, I think the English regions are even worse served by Westminster than Scotland is – we at least have some autonomy.

one in three English voters now favours a break-up of the union

Probably because they’re continually fed the lie that England subsidises the other nations of the union, which isn’t true, at least not in the case of Scotland.

A letter in the THES from an Englishman in Scotland, who’s going to vote Yes.

The last paragraph is especially relevant:

If the UK breaks apart, the cause will not be nationalism but rather the disastrous, extreme right-wing policies pursued by the Capitalist Party of (Southern) England, be it the Conservative wing, the Liberal Democrat wing or the Labour wing.

(Sent to me by my father, also an English-born academic living in Scotland who’s going to vote Yes)

Strange how you can call yes voters Mel Gibson wannabes

Yes that’s correct, I once made a remark about saltire waving Mel Gibson wannabes. I can see that the comment deeply wounded you as you are still banging on about it all this time later. If I had realised just how sensitive you are I might not have made the comment.

Never at anytime, throughout the 174 pages of this thread, have I made a derogatory comment with regards to the Scots. In fact the complete opposite is true – I have commented on the contribution that Scots have made to the Union and expressed the desire to maintain working class unity throughout the United Kingdom. I value Scotland and the Scottish people’s contribution to the Union.

In contrast saltire waving Mel Gibson wannabes like yourself can’t resist having little digs at the English.

In your case ernie i will assume the satire is deliberate.

In contrast saltire waving Mel Gibson wannabes like yourself can’t resist having little digs at the English.

Oops, you’ve just done it again.

You should probably stop taking things so personally.

Yup,but rather at odds with you dull tirade on the previous page. It didn’t upset me,(sorry if that was the intention) and remember I was only one of a number of people who called you over it,but it should probably have upset you.

1 in 3 English voters eh? Surprised its that low myself.
Ive heard/read competing arguments about who subsidies whom and neither argument convinces me to be frank.
What does convince me is the whining thinly veiled anti English BS constantly flowing from Salmonds cake hole & i really have had enough, that’s enough reason alone to want Scotland gone.
Am i an anti Scottish racist? No, as ive said before Scotland on a day to day basis is as relevant to my life as Iceland or the Faroe Islands, I really won’t notice when you are gone. I’ll just be glad the BS stops – at least for us, Scots will still have to deal with it of course but that’s not my concern.

the whining thinly veiled anti English BS constantly flowing from Salmonds cake hole

Show me one anti-English thing Salmond has said. Just one. The hate only seems to be flowing one way in this discussion.

That’s the perception Ben, constant whining about being bullied etc. To you it may not seem such but down here it comes across as very anti English dressed up in a cloak of anti Westminster rhetoric. As i say, you may see it from a different angle but here its seen as something else, and it is one of the things fuelling the desire to simply be rid of the Scottish Question once and for all.
Personally i think the Union has been good for everyone but the time appears to have arrived where that is no longer enough – so lets just get it over with.

EDIT: I was referring to the wider population Ben, not the conversation on here.

So the problem really is English people taking criticism of the Westminster government personally?

What does convince me is the whining thinly veiled anti English BS constantly flowing from Salmonds cake hole & i really have had enough, that’s enough reason alone to want Scotland gone.
Am i an anti Scottish racist?

Well you’re taking a position with regards to all Scots, ie “they can bugger off” or words to that effect, on the basis of what one Scot has said.

So the jury’s still out on whether you’re an anti-Scottish racist as far as I’m concern.

And in this case the word bigot is probably more appropriate than racist btw.

After spending 3 weeks on holiday in the islands, I was amazed at how anti English the press (especially the Record) and TV is in Scotland. Its pretty shocking really, as if it was directed at any other racial group then I am sure you wouldn’t be able to publish/broadcast it.

Conversely the people were great although they were embarrassed by the Southern lowlanders at their attitudes towards people with an english accent 🙂

Possibly, Salmond certainly has a way of not endearing himself to the rest of the UK population put it that way. One of the reasons i want Scotland to leave is the fear that in the event of a no vote Salmond and Co will do their very damnedest to frustrate the rest of the UK at every turn. The loss won’t be blamed on fellow Scots not believing his version of Scottish Nirvana, it will be blamed on perfidious Albion in the shape of Westminster. Its better for us in the long run that you leave sooner than later.

EDIT : when that ‘one Scot’ is the person who officially speaks for Scotland you would agree his words carry some weight Ernie?
Bigot? If you think so, its not that important to me.

Closer to home, it looks as if No are really worried about Glasgow – various polls have shown that Glasgow is pretty strongly Yes, so the announcement of £1bn funding (half from each government) is interesting. Pity that if you look more closely it’s only worth £15M a year…

when that ‘one Scot’ is the person who officially speaks for Scotland you would agree his words carry some weight Ernie?

Not really. In the same way that all British people, including you, shouldn’t be judged on the basis of what David Cameron says.

Furthermore the Scottish people have to vote for someone in elections, and in the case of Salmond less than half of half the electorate voted for the party which he leads.

On the specific issue of Scotland and the Scottish people’s relationship with the English, and others within the Union, Salmond does not have the authority to speak on behalf of Scots. That is why there will a referendum in September – to establish the views of Scots.

We will know then, and if the vote is for separation then everything should be done to facilitate the wishes of the people of Scotland, imo.

Whether we like it or not, the words of Cameron and Salmond carry far more weight than the words of unelected private citizens like ourselves – and that’s the way it should be. They are elected leaders and their words carry weight. Whether those words can persuade Scots to make the leap remains to be seen. Cameron may not represent my views but he DOES represent me on the international stage, same for Salmond and Scotland.

Last time I checked the vote was a referendum rather than a constituency thing, so it would seem strange for them to be all that bothered about Glasgow – especially if the Yes vote is well entrenched (remember it’s the floaters they’re after – no need at all for them to win over any current Yes voters). I suspect you’re reading too much into that, Ben.

Cameron does not represent my opinions “on the international stage”.

Perhaps. Though the way it was done – the UK government pledging £500M and challenging the Scottish government to match it – is interesting.

No Ernie, he does not represent your personal opinions, but like it or not as the UK Premier he represents the UK – and that’s all of us currently.

he does not represent your personal opinions

Quite correct.

So why are you judging Scots on the basis of what Salmond says then ?

<sigh> because, as you know very well his words DO carry weight. And i know very well a slim majority of Scots will vote against his proposal this September, but that isn’t really my worry. My worry is that Salmond and Co are in power & therefore have the power to disrupt Scottish/UK relations for the foreseeable future. The issue will not go away, it will continue to affect economic & social life for a long time to come so its better we split reasonably amicably now rather than bitterly at some point in the future. If that attitude is anti Scottish bigotry then so be it.

Word for word, that could apply to Cameron as well.

Precisely Ben, i quite understand your desire to leave the UK – I’m just puzzled as to why any English person who states a desire for Scotland to leave because they believe it would be better for the UK is met with bafflement.

I’m not baffled – I agree that it could well be a good thing for the rUK as well.

Though I probably think so for different reasons to you – I think it might help break the Westminster system.

Last time I checked the vote was a referendum rather than a constituency thing, so it would seem strange for them to be all that bothered about Glasgow – especially if the Yes vote is well entrenched (remember it’s the floaters they’re after – no need at all for them to win over any current Yes voters). I suspect you’re reading too much into that, Ben.

Lets rewind a wee bit here. Greater Glasgow has a population of around 2.3 million people which is around 41% of the total population of Scotland. On those grounds it would be very strange indeed if they weren’t all that bothered about Glasgow….

It seems that Cameron hasn’t got the memo about how Yes is all about emotion and No is sensible and about the facts:

The prime minister, during a short party rally in Perth, made a direct plea to Scots Tory activists, asking them to fight harder to “save the UK” and urging them to see the anti-independence case as an emotional, patriotic, cause.

“We’ve had all the arguments and it’s an issue of the heart,” he told the Conservative Friends of the Union rally. “It would break my heart to see our United Kingdom broken apart.”

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/03/david-cameron-scots-tories-pride-patriotism-united-uk

Are we going to get another love bombing?

Actually Ben, a major reason (as ive stated previously) would be that i believe it would cause a seismic shift in UK politics. Not having to concern ourselves with Scotland and forcing the Left to re-integrate with the English electorate rather than relying on Scots/Welsh votes.
Having said that, we all know Scots haven’t swung an election in decades.
Still, i can’t see a single downside for the UK should Scotland go.

Scotland should go their own way … Frreeedddoommmmmm! 😈

To add a bit of balance to the discussion just as Ben thinks the Westminster system needs breaking I personally think the Holyrood system needs breaking. It is a complete waste of money and another worthless layer of bureaucracy. Ben keeps saying that the Westminster system is broke but it was that system that created a Scottish parliament. The SNP have given nothing to Scotland in comparison.

I personally think the Holyrood system needs breaking

Quite right FNF we should get rid of the devolved parliament and go for independence. Didn’t have you down as a yes supporter.

FNF – quite right, we’ve got three layers at the moment. Holyrood, Commons and Lords. Independence gets rid of two of those, removing a huge amount of bureaucracy – the Lords is the second largest parliamentary body in the world, only beaten by China.

Cameron’s party rally in Perth? The one where he said that losing Scotland would break his heart? He made it to a hall that was only a quarter full – less than 250 people.

Though it is quite impressive they found even that many people in Scotland who were willing to go listen to him.

iScotland really should have a second chamber of some kind, I don’t think special committees would carry enough weight to keep holyrood in check. If this is not the case you are going to end up with less democracy if you are not careful. Admittedly the house of lords needs to be fully elected sooner rather than later.