Osbourne says no to currency union.

Can this thread be deleted? Lot of people on it should do more work or spend time with their families!

I feel a special bond with this thread, clicking on it has become so much part of my daily routine that quite frankly I’m a little apprehensive about the period following the 18th of September.

Although hopefully the postmortem and obvious recriminations concerning what went wrong will extend its life beyond that.

Unless of course the nats get into a sulk after the 18th and don’t want to talk about it.

If there’s a yes vote then this thread should live on as a counter example to what we all said would happen vs what actually happened. I think we all know who’ll have won 😉

Unless of course the nats get into a sulk after the 18th and don’t want to talk about it.

On the 19th, if the vote is no, we take to the hills.

Sorry Ben, I don’t think I’m getting out of bed on the 19th, regardless of the result

ernie_lynch – Member
…Unless of course the nats get into a sulk after the 18th and don’t want to talk about it.

You know that Plan B that hasn’t yet been revealed?… 🙂

But the French don’t think we will have too much of a problem

BBC link In case it’s not been seen by all

michaelbowden – Member
BBC link In case it’s not been seen by all

Oh dear, more fear.

Too bad, and if the EU does put us on ice for 3 years, I doubt there will be much enthusiasm for getting back in. Oil rich countries seem to do quite well on their own.

Or maybe Scotland could form a common market with another country leaving the EU… 🙂

On a more serious note, I have often wondered why the Commonwealth connection has not been more important to the UK than the EU. It seems to me that it presented far greater opportunities than Europe, and more so now with fast travel and communication, and it doesn’t require the surrender of any sovereignty.

Business For New Europe (BNE) also claimed it would be “next to impossible” for Scotland to rejoin the EU on the UK’s current terms.

And what are the chances of the UK being able to rejoin the EU on any terms, after the EU referendum takes the UK out of the EU?

The only chance Scottish businesses have of staying in the EU is if Scotland is independent – that way we won’t be dragged out by the UK.

It may not be the only chance Ben but given the relative strength of Ukip in the rest of the UK compared to Scotland a Yes vote on September 18th seems a good way to stay in the EU.

Unless of course the nats get into a sulk after the 18th and don’t want to talk about it.

Can we not get a vote so close they recount it numerous times before we get some ubber flouncing

The EU is expansionist in nature they do not want to loose any member IMHO

It is also risky politically, if iS leaves and flourishes as it will fuel the calls for other countries to leave

IMHO the EU do want them to join and I doubt anyone thinks they are incapable of creating a fudge that allows continued membership

Would be interesting if a member chose to vote against them but that is a lot of fisheries lost to the norwegian fleets 😉

The ukip is just a blip in England,they look like they are about to get a reality check in the by-election. I always wondered why we didn’t have closer trade links with the USA TBH.(A serious one if anybody knows) France and Germany made sure that the UK couldn’t be a dominant party in the EU/EEC before we were allowed in.

The anit EU element is fairly stable IMHO at about 25 %
the anti immigration vote is failry stable at about 6%

Combine the two and they do ok

I think the best they will achieve is to get the mainstream parties to implement UKIP ish policies re the referendum and “controlled” immigration
They themselves are a one issue party that cannot really go anywhere and are , IMHO, unlikely to become a genuine force in politics.

Interesting figures JY. Where did you get them from?

Duckman – the US is our biggest export market and our fourth biggest import market. We even have a balance of trade surplus with the US.

BBC Scotland have employed a serving politician, Kezia Dugdale as a presenter in the run up to the referendum. Imo BBC Scotland s claim to be impartial is on a very shoogly peg.

Dianne abott worked on BBC political programme This Week as did Alan Johnson now with Portillo as the counter point

Kezia Dugdale MSP will reportedly co-present a new BBC Radio Scotland show alongside pro-independence writer Andrew Wilson from 22 June.
Reports that Dugdale would present a purported replacement for the BBC’s Scottish current affairs programme Headlines first appeared on pro-independence website Bella Caledonia, which claimed the broadcaster was building towards “the biggest crisis faced by BBC Scotland since Zircon”.
It said the Labour MSP would present a programme called Crossfire.
But The Targe has heard that Dugdale will co-present alongside Andrew Wilson, who sat as a Scottish National Party MSP between 1999 and 2003.
The format means that both sides of the referendum divide – those advocating independence and those opposing it – will be nominally represented in the discussion of current affairs stories.

Yes that is really biased by the BBC there giving a voice to both sides.

Imo BBC Scotland s claim to be impartial is on a very shoogly peg.

Why ? Because they have employed a politician ? 😆

Here’s another politician employed by the BBC

And here’s one employed by LBC

Labour MSP ‘to co-present’ BBC radio show

Kezia Dugdale MSP will reportedly co-present a new BBC Radio Scotland show alongside pro-independence writer Andrew Wilson from 22 June.

The format means that both sides of the referendum divide – those advocating independence and those opposing it – will be nominally represented in the discussion of current affairs stories.

Sounds perfectly reasonable and quite interesting. What are you scared of ?

I am not afraid of anything Ernie. I dont think it is good practice for BBC Scotland to give a presenting role to serving politicians in the run up to the referendum. It is also strange that BBC Scotland only managed to get a serving politician from one side.

I don’t see any problem with them employing a serving politician. Though tbh it’s not like their partiality is in any doubt…

Can i go on record as saying this thread is unfair as it has opinions from all sides and therefore lacks balance

From wiki

In August 2012 the BBC Trust ruled that payments to Abbott for her appearances on This Week were made in breach of BBC guidelines that banned payments to MPs who were representing their political parties.

and

The Trust also said that Abbott had appeared on the show too often.

Shouldnt BBC Scotland be cautious in the light of those findings by the BBC trust.

gordimhor – Member

….employed a serving politician

…..a presenting role to serving politicians

…..managed to get a serving politician

What’s this “serving” politician obsession ? Why are you using this as a stick to beat the BBC with ?

Are you saying that if Tony Blair was presenting a programme on BBC he wouldn’t be biased because he is no longer a “serving” politician ?

Are you saying that because Andrew Wilson, the SNP politician who is co-presenting the programme, is no longer a MSP he isn’t really committed to independence and therefore not biased ?

Seriously ….. wtf? You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for muck to sling at the BBC. Which actually speaks volumes.

Even by your own admission the BBC Trust keeps a careful eye over any breaches.

Shouldnt BBC Scotland be cautious in the light of those findings by the BBC trust.

Exactly, I’m sure they are extremely cautious for the reasons that you give. And Kezia Dugdale won’t be representing her political party.

Offering both sides of the independence debate is perfectly reasonable. Although you obviously aren’t going to say that it is. Just like you “forgot” to mention that Andrew Wilson of the SNP would be co-presenting the programme.

Just as an aside,does having oil,WMD and a despotic leader mean that America has us on the list for regime change?

Oops, time to add those nasty bullies at the IFS to the list….

in the medium term, an independent Scotland’s public finances would be in a substantially weaker position than those of the UK, unless it were to undertake further spending cuts or tax rises on top of those already pencilled in for the coming years

Have they not read the script? Honestly, these people…….

” Austerity Alex” does have a ring to it though!

I have often wondered why the Commonwealth connection has not been more important to the UK than the EU. It seems to me that it presented far greater opportunities than Europe, and more so now with fast travel and communication, and it doesn’t require the surrender of any sovereignty.

Because they don’t have very much in common with each other economically, because they are far away, because a fair number of them are already in their own regional trade blocs, because most of them are even more poorly run than the EU that it’s difficult to get anything done, and because WTO will take care o anything that’s solely trade-related – which is what you seem gone interested in.

And Kezia Dugdale won’t be representing her political party.

Oh, well, that’s all right, then, if she’s said that she won’t let her party affiliation affect her journalism in any way, of course we have to believe her.

The IFS thing – they’ve taken a one-off big drop in oil revenues and extrapolated from that.

They also confuse SNP policies with independence. To be fair, so do the SNP in their white paper, but saying that SNP policies are unaffordable is not the same as saying independence is unaffordable.

They also confuse SNP policies with independence. To be fair, so do the SNP in their white paper, but saying that SNP policies are unaffordable is not the same as saying independence is unaffordable.

Now this is just getting silly. The SNP is in government and so their plans are all we have to go on. There’s little enough in the way of credible financial foundations to the white paper without us having to vote on the basis of what some other government could do, particularly when the other parties which could form a government don’t want independence.

Oh, well, that’s all right, then, if she’s said that she won’t let her party affiliation affect her journalism in any way, of course we have to believe her.

It’s absolutely nothing to do with what “she’s said”, as gordimhor has very helpfully pointed out the BBC Trust won’t allow breach the of BBC guidelines that ban payments to MPs who are representing their political parties.

I have no idea what her co-presenter Andrew Wilson of the SNP “has said” concerning not letting his party affiliation affect his journalism, but I’m completely unworried about him being allowed to present a programme.

But then I’m not scared of Scottish independence debates. Although who knows, perhaps I would be if I felt my case was really weak.

bencooper – Member

They also confuse SNP policies with independence. To be fair, so do the SNP in their white paper, but saying that SNP policies are unaffordable is not the same as saying independence is unaffordable.

Because to the general public, the SNP policies/whte paper, is what is being sold as the outcome of independence.

Oh, well, that’s all right, then, if she’s said that she won’t let her party affiliation affect her journalism in any way, of course we have to believe her.

This works against the other presenter as well
Clearly they will both represent their own views which will be broadly similar to yes and No / their parties – this is what balance is. Its not like of just you presented a programme or just THM did one we would all applaud it for balance.

The SNP is in government and so their plans are all we have to go on.

So we should assume that all the the Tories have said will actually happen then as it is all we have to go on and anything else would be silly 😕

” Austerity Alex” does have a ring to it though!

That is almost polite from you.

The Queen’s Speech has just finished – what a brilliant opportunity for the government to show they were serious about giving Scotland more powers after a No vote. they didn’t, of course – they’re more serious about carrier bags.

The total mention of Scotland was “My government will continue to implement new financial powers for the Scottish Parliament and make the case for Scotland to remain a part of the United Kingdom.”

“Continue to implement” means, of course, continue with the measures already introduced in the Scotland Act 2012.

This is the concern about serving politicians, from former BBC journalist Derek Batemans blog “I resign”

I have never heard of a payroll politician being hired as a presenter, as opposed to guest, when the BBC has entered the period when impartiality is a necessity. The format is for two people to argue from opposing sides but her adversary is far outside the party machine with known views of his own developed after years outside parliament and party whip scope. Two such people would be fine. I don’t even think two serving MSPs, Labour and SNP, would work either because they act at the party’s command.

That is to say Kezia Dugdale shadow Minister for Education is very much part of the Labour party hierarchy , you cant say the same about Andrew Wilson and the SNP.
Ernie Yes Scotland have organised hundreds maybe even thousands of public meetings up and down Scotland. I use the term meetings not debates because it has been very difficult to get representatives from BetterTogether to attend. I did link to a meeting in Edinburgh a few pages back where the Unionist view was represented. I am not scared of debate I suggest you ask BetterTogether why they dont attend these meetings.

Well quite frankly I’m shocked to see that there was nothing in the Queen’s Speech to satisfy the SNP and force them to abandon their desire for Scottish independence.

Seriously, with the right words coming from Her Majesty I’m sure SNP would have abandoned decades of struggle and embraced the Union.

I agree with Ben…..a wasted “opportunity”.

It’s not about making the SNP happy – it’d be about showing undecided and wavering No voters that they were serious about their proposals.

Guess they weren’t that serious.

THM – another one for the list

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22229713.100-scotland-what-if-independence-goes-horribly-wrong.html#.U48KFZSwJb4

😀

That is to say Kezia Dugdale shadow Minister for Education is very much part of the Labour party hierarchy, you cant say the same about Andrew Wilson and the SNP.

It seems to me that the BBC Trust is determined that Scotland will vote No in September.

So if it all goes wrong on the day for the nats we’ll know who to blame……the BBC of course, and their cunning plan to force Scots to vote incorrectly !

Yes, because predicting what’ll happen 50 years in the future always works perfectly 😉

You mean you were not persuaded by the liberal use of facts Ben 😉

SO poor I assume even THM will distance himself from it

Its also a bit misleading IMHO

for example

The problem for Scotland is that its under-65 population will shrink while its over-65s increase, putting big pressure on public finances.

yet for the UK as a whole

The figures also show a 31% growth in the number of people of state pension age putting it up to 16.1m in 2037

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/nov/06/uk-population-increase-births-migration

ie the same problem but with more people rather than the same number.