Osbourne says no to currency union.

bencooper – Member

I’ve already got my special flouncing kilt ready, just in case…

Is that more like a pleated skirt, with maybe a French tartan? 😆

I’m working on the best spin to flash my bum, just like HRH…

I’ve already got my special flouncing kilt ready, just in case…

there is a tail between the legs joke there somewhere.

in debating about nonsense (very apt here), one comes to believe it.”

No one could accuse you of this and you are a beacon to us all
Oh the ironing – adds to the list.

Flounce, Bonnie Ben, like a bird on the wing…

Nice to see lots of kilts in London yesterday and fortunately no hairy arses even in the loos at the station.

Why was the World Cup warm up (sorry!) held in nasty old London and at Craven Cottage?

I think it was because many of the Nigerians are based in rUK but not certain
I suspect they are so rubbish [ scotland] they have to do what the others want in a game as well.

Why was the World Cup warm up (sorry!) held in nasty old London and at Craven Cottage?

Maybe the tartan army wanted a day out 😆 or perhaps it was because Hampden is getting a running track etc for the commonwealth games

Great Ormond Street Hospital aren’t happy about the Vote No Borders NHS advert:

More bluff and bluster to keep people off the real story, eh Ben? You’ve already completely misrepresented what that advert says, and even wings over, where you got that email, are continuing to lie about it by saying ‘with the suggestion that it would become “out of bounds” to Scottish children’ when it said no such thing – I note that the email comments ‘as you state below’ but WOS have omitted what they said – and it seems that Gt Ormond street have only gone as far as to reassure current patients – not stated in any way what will happen after independence, and not said a word about waiting lists!

I also note that the person who wrote this isn’t named – while the non-executive director of Great Ormond Street is a prominent better-together supporter 😉

Oh, whats that, all but one Scottish health trust missing waiting time targets?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27588847

Yes Scotland we are Better Together?

More on Vote No Borders – using web scraping to show some very dubious donations:

http://baffiebox.wordpress.com/2014/05/29/vote-no-borders-astroturfing-the-evidence/

jambalaya – Member

@JY, of course you can show that Scotland has benefitted from spending consistent with the UK public debt.

You might find this interesting reading

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0041/00418419.pdf

ah right zulu,so the “real story” isn’t vnb issuing sick threats based on conjecture,it is wings spinning what they said? Nice one,even for project fear that was a low.

You might find this interesting reading

I did
Thanks

bencooper – Member
More on Vote No Borders – using web scraping to show some very dubious donations:

http://baffiebox.wordpress.com/2014/05/29/vote-no-borders-astroturfing-the-evidence/

I see cinemas have banned those VNB adverts.

Oddly, I think that Salmond/Cameron mash up actually improves the way both look.

This may have more to do with just how repulsive I normally find both of them.

I see cinemas have banned those VNB adverts

Yes, well they’ve banned all referendum adverts. VNB witted on about how it’s those nasty nationalists shutting down debate, but of course the real reason was that GOSH complained.

The VNB funding is such a blatant attempt to get around the funding rules it really should be properly investigated, but does the Electoral Commission have the teeth to do it? And will they do it now, or in 5 years? Just look at the list of donations to VNB over one period:

The limit for a single donation before it has to be declared now (rather than after the referendum) is £7500.

On a wider issue, you do have to wonder – if the case for No is so good, why do they keep having to lie and deceive to make it?

On the EU, the European Policy Centre says that Scotland would most likely not have to leave, even for a short time:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27623271

Even Better Together seem to admit they’ve lost this argument, they’ve shifted from insisting that Scotland would be out in the cold, to saying we wouldn’t have the same special exemptions that the UK has.

What’s new about iS not enjoying the special exemptions – that argument has been around from the start.

Now there is often an anti- foreign ownership undercurrent on STW eg why do we allow the “bloody French” build our nuclear power plants, bloody profits just go overseas etc. Oddly, given the importance of foreign ownership to large parts if the Scottish economy, this argument is rarely raised here although the relevance of GNI versus GDP has been raised occasionally. At least Glasgow Uni and The Guardian pick up on this today, Why, because…

The gap between GDP and GNI directly affects taxes paid to a future independent Scottish government.

Not that you would find this admission in the BoD. Plus which ever way you use/twist the GERS stats, Scotland raises approx the same tax per head as rUK but spends approx 11% more per head. And that gets squared into a better fiscal position as if by magic? Amazing.

That photo gets scarier each time I open this thread!

Martin Wolf hits the nail on the head today in the FT after 48 hours on bllx on the debate from AS and DA

Yet what is more striking is how paltry the debate has become. Rather than say it favours independence whatever the costs, because it is the only way for Scotland to fulfil its national destiny, the Scottish government pretends it will be a simple, costless exercise instead of a journey into an uncertain, demanding future. Meanwhile, the UK prime minister feels unable to go to Scotland to say what seems to be essential: that, whatever the political differences between England and Scotland, he wants Scotland to stay in the union not because it makes us all a bit better off economically but because we in the rest of the UK value Scotland, the Scots and the shared and successful country these peoples have built together….The debate over the future of the union should not be reduced to huckstering over short-term gains or to debating implausible promises.

Quite.

foreign ownership undercurrent on STW

How can scotland best address this then by making her own laws or staying as they are?

Plus which ever way you use/twist the GERS stats, Scotland raises approx the same tax per head as rUK but spends approx 11% more per head*. And that gets squared into a better fiscal position as if by magic? Amazing.

The debate over the future of the union should not be reduced to huckstering over short-term gains or to debating implausible promises.

BRILLIANT
Again your preceding post was an example to us all in that respect and where you lead we all try to follow. You are beyond parody now.

*Well that is your impartial interpretation of them, forgive me for thinking it is someway short of an actual fact.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/European_Policy_Centre

And funnily enough, what name do we see at the bottom of the EPC report – Graham Avery, same old name seems to crop up again and again in the independence discussion, doesn’t it!

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article3655702.ece

An academic hailed by the SNP as supporting their claim that an independent Scotland would enjoy automatic membership of the EU does not represent the views of Brussels, the European Commission president has said.
José Manuel Barroso said that while Graham Avery was entitled to his “personal opinion”, it was not that of the commission.

Mr Avery, an honorary director-general of the commission and a senior adviser at the European Policy Centre, gave evidence to a Westminster committee last year in which he said that Scotland would not have to go through the formal EU accession process of non-member countries, He said that, in the event of a “yes” vote in 2014, there would be “not more than one or two years” of negotiations between Edinburgh and London.

“From the political point of view, Scotland has been in the EU for 40 years and its people have acquired rights as European citizens. If they wish to remain in the EU, they could hardly be asked to leave and then reapply for membership in the same way as the people of a non-member country such as Turkey,” Mr Avery wrote.

His statement provided some welcome relief to the SNP at a time when European experts were lining up to warn that an independent Scotland would have to negotiate its membership from outside the Union. Alex Salmond used it to face down criticism from Johann Lamont last year, telling the Labour leader that Mr Avery “should know” the position.

Mr Barroso has now said that Mr Avery does not speak for the commission. “It is not the general policy of the commission to be represented by retired officials,” said Mr Barroso. “In the instance referred to … the honorary director-general did not speak for the commission. All retired officials may express personal views or analysis without prejudice to their obligation not to disclose information of the kind covered by the obligation of professional secrecy.”…

I note that bit particularly – An academic hailed by the SNP as supporting their claim that an independent Scotland would enjoy automatic membership of the EU … we’ve not heard that for a while, have we?

Desperate times call for……!!! 😉 nice put down from Barosso though!

I also enjoyed…

We have done our own coatings
Oh really, what are they?
We have not done our own costings….

….Pantomime.

The real thing is descending to the same poor quality of trolling here. Still amusing to read on a quiet morning.

We have done our own coatings
Oh really, what are they?
We have not done our own costings….

Maybe they should just go with the treasury figures and then spend significantly less which would be a vote winner. Good spin on something that again demonstrates how Westminster are at it though.

Sounds like they are already listening to you ducks…

Talk of negative campaigning, you have to smile at the phone booth poster

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2014/may/30/scotland-live-regulated-referendum-campaign-starts

At least the boy finds his maltesers more interesting and palatable than the message.

The difference is that the phone booth poster wasn’t wildly extrapolated – it’s an estimate from the Child Poverty Action Group:

http://www.cpag.org.uk/scotland/early-warning-system

…and it’s all the fault of the English isn’t it? But come 19 Sep, it will all disappear as if by magic…..

Maltesers definitely the better option.

teamhurtmore – Member
…and it’s all the fault of the English isn’t it? But come 19 Sep, it will all disappear as if by magic…..

No-one cares about your attempts to turn this into a Scots versus England thing.

After Sept, we’ll be steering the ship and deciding where it goes. And it won’t be in the same direction as EWANI.

And we don’t need another of your democracy doesn’t work tirades.

This is why we hate your football team. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/26684674 it’s 48 years on – we dont need a “live” commentary.

And we don’t need another of your democracy doesn’t work tirades.

Point in the direction of one or is that merely a duck ism?

My attempts – have you missed the campaign so far??? I am a Scotophile, I don’t like the S v Eng thing at all. It’s the poster that pretends that this is something to do with England. Mention bedroom tax and you have the root of all evils apparently.

Epic, are you also missing the fact that whatever the vote, Westminster will still be pulling the strings. Fortunately the majority/canny folk are likely to vote democratically for the more benign version.

It’s the poster that pretends that this is something to do with England.

Show me the word “England” in this poster:

It’s nothing to do with England, it’s do do with the different priorities of a Westminster government.

teamhurtmore – Member

And we don’t need another of your democracy doesn’t work tirades.

Point in the direction of one or is that merely a duck ism?

All the people calling you on the BS you spout are all telling lies about you…Your double standards and lack of self awareness (as pointed out again by JY on this very page)and by pretty much everybody else really know no bounds.

Ben, and the difference is? And the difference will be?

Simon Jenkins gets pretty close in the guardian.

Can Scotland do it? The campaign for September’s independence vote opens officially on Friday. Yet both campaign and vote are superfluous: it will make no difference which side wins; either way, the outcome will be much the same.

At last some honesty to mark the start of campaigning.

But few actually picking on specific points ducks, wonder why??? Prefer misrepresentation or in one case simply trolling. Show me an example of an anti-democracy tirade as a starter.

En attendons toujours……

THM – may I suggest that you step away from the thread for a couple of days. You seem to be getting upset when people question your points.

Ben, and the difference is? And the difference will be?

Ah, you’re going to ignore my question 🙂

Where in that poster does it blame child poverty on England?

There are many differences – we already have different spending priorities around health, education, social care etc, but with full control of funding there’s a lot more that can be done – and with no money being spent on nuclear weapons for a start, there will be more money to do it with.

Simon Jenkins gets pretty close in the guardian.

Simon Jenkins is a pompous arse who seems to swallow the “more devolution after No” lie hook, line and sinker.

The poster does not use the word English clearly. But the implication is blindingly obvious. If we do not vote for independence from Westminster 100,000 will live in poverty. That is clearly a crock with false causation. May I suggest you look at the proposed defence budget to see what is also being proposed.

Yes, more money after all those tax cuts. It’s magic! Do highers have a different syllabus to A/AS/GCSE economics?

Are you sure Jenkins isn’t also a bully, blusterers etc……bloody Guardian readers. Still most of the bullying UK broadsheets have a pretty consistent theme these days along with BOE, EU etc. Wonder why that is?

Wanman, not upset at all. It’s very funny. The lack of reference to specific points I may have made has a long history on here and it’s obvious why! Makes the lunch hour pass so much quicker.

Because you don’t answer them,so after 5 thousand posts nobody bothers with you anymore. Case in point because of the usual falsify claim that you are so touch about when it is directed at you.
(from Ben)

Ah, you’re going to ignore my question

You know when you give us you standard line of “facts are all there if you care to look” yet when given specific questions to answer you don’t…Still you are funny,I really should mock the afflicted,but I can’t help myself in your case.

wanmankylung – Member
THM – may I suggest that you step away from the thread for a couple of days. You seem to be getting upset when people question your points.

More bluff and bluster from stw posters!

Or I’ll put it another way; your refusal to give any ground when challenged is boring me.

The poster does not use the word English clearly. But the implication is blindingly obvious. If we do not vote for independence from Westminster 100,000 will live in poverty.

It’s you that’s confusing Westminster and England/English – the implication is only obvious to you.

Westminster has MPs from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland – we want independence from the whole lot, not just the English ones.

I know that the No side thinks it helps to portray this as a Scottish vs English thing when it’s not, but why are you doing it?