Osbourne says no to currency union.

Making stuff, exporting stuff – the old-fashioned things that people used to do to make money before they tried making money from money.

Making stuff is done abroad, in low cost production centres be that India/Bangladesh or Asia. I have a bag from a Scottish company, it was made in India. Scotland isn’t going to prosper on manufacturing and I would wager not on technology. Scotland has a pretty decent sized financial services sector. Again I would wager the SNP does all it can to keep Standard Life in Scotland (so tax breaks) even though most of it’s business is managing money for people outside Scotland. My main concern all along has been he size of an independent Scotland, it’s just not going to be large enough to have a really viable domestic economy.

I have no doubt Scotland will be OK economically, you will be worse off but you seem happy for that to be the price of self-governance. Thats’s your choice, the choice the UK government has allowed you to have.

Making stuff is done abroad, in low cost production centres be that India/Bangladesh or Asia.

Depends on the stuff. There’s a high-tech satellite manufacturing company lust down the road from my house. There’s quite a bit of high-tech manufacturing in Scotland.

My main concern all along has been he size of an independent Scotland, it’s just not going to be large enough to have a really viable domestic economy.

Is it smaller than other “viable” countries like the Scandinavian countries, New Zealand etc?

Thats’s your choice, the choice the UK government has allowed you to have.

That’s very magnanimous of the UK government 😀

one of the likely consequences of that is that there will be a corporation tax competition between the two

That’s what was said before devolution.

What are you on about ? No one said before devolution that there would be corporation tax competition.

In fact there was a study which showed that the tax rate of one country had minimal effect on the tax rate of neighbouring countries.

Yes I’ve understood that you reject the SNP’s argument that Scotland’s future prosperity will be helped by low corporation tax which will draw investment away from the rest of the UK and to Scotland. I asked you to provide an alternative policy, not what was wrong with the SNP’s policy.

You said you haven’t got one, which is both fair and honest. But not very convincing.

jambalaya – Member

Making stuff is done abroad, in low cost production centres be that India/Bangladesh or Asia.

The UK is still one of the world’s strongest manufacturers- maybe not so much in terms of volume (though still huge amounts of food, pharmaceuticals, a surplus of cars) but in terms of value added we hit an all time high in 2010 and were IIRC 7th biggest in the world. (though Brazil was about to overtake us) So nah, making stuff isn’t just done abroad.

*I hate that terminology. It’s really the country investing in the company, with grants and the like.

Priceless!

Northwind – Member

Well if it’s alright for Clarkson to call people scottish idiots (he only ever apologised for “one eyed”)…

Which political party is he representing again?

To be fair to JC (though must add that I personally think he is a weapons-grade bell end) he said:

I have nothing against the Scottish and of course I regret making any remark that might have upset the disabled. But the idiot bit – there is no chance I’ll apologise for that.

Anyway, it’s clear that there is no anti-English sentiment in the SNP since they have asked her to stand down. Oh no, wait- actually they haven’t. Because apparently her an apology for making comments ‘open to misinterpretation’ makes it all fine 😀

Is it smaller than other “viable” countries like the Scandinavian countries, New Zealand etc?

New Zealand’s a fairly poor country largely dependent upon agriculture.

The Scandies are heavily dependent upon forestry and related businesses like paper. Their star industries have either failed and/or been sold to foreigners when they’ve run into trouble (eg Volvo, Saab, Nokia)

I don’t see Scotland being much different in the medium term as the oil runs out, leaving a heavy reliance on tourism.

I’m curious about the high tech manufacturing, what is that exactly and who are the customers ?

It is magnanimous of the UK government to allow the Scots a referendum on independence, there is no requirement to do so. Ultimately it makes no sense to have a shooting war over it, we’ve seen that in the past and in the present elsewhere and we don’t want that.

You seem to be living in the 1950s, Sweden is one of the most, if not the most, efficient manufacturing countries in the world. Less than 5% of New Zealand’s GDP is made up by agriculture.

It is magnanimous of the UK government to allow the Scots a referendum on independence, 

Really?

I am not sure which is the more telling. – Miss Maclaren’s comments or the justification. No surprise in either really, the undercurrent rarely stays below the surface for too long.

Always puzzled by the idea that the UK is not a strong manufacturer. Look at where we rank globally and the contribution of manufacturing to UK exports – this is applicable to the whole of the UK. Then look at the record of inward investment.

I am not sure which is the more telling.

Telling of what? A student said something silly, a bunch of UKIP people got upset. They get upset at everything, especially any perceived anti-English bias.

In addition to the unpleasant language, immaturity of the rant and odious sentiments, the unfortunate “lady” should also learn some “gratitude”. Her interest in politics should allow her to realise that the Tory Renaissance in the polls (overtaking Labour according to the Guardian) is a god send to her fraught cause. Eds call that “it’s all right we will be in power in W’minster next”, is looking a little less certain by he day. The yS joker card?!?! With a bit more maturity perhaps she might get it?

Edinburgh Uni and the SNP must be very proud!

Surveys showed that most Scots didn’t believe Ed Milliband’s promise of more powers any more than George Osborne’s threat of no currency union 😉

But I agree, Labour’s sinking popularity helps the Yes side.

@mefty – 🙂 very good. Many people do think I am stuck in the 1950’s !

I had a look on the NZ government site and they quote manufacturing at 22% of GDP but this includes the generation of electricity plus water and gas – seems a bit spurious to me. They also include making food products as manufacturing. It seems making wine isn’t classified as agriculture either.

I hate quoting Wiki but this is what they say
It has only small manufacturing and high-tech sectors, being strongly focused on tourism and primary industries such as agriculture

This is what I think will happen with Scotland.

As for Sweden they certainly did make stuff (like cars, aircraft) but those businesses didn’t survive as independents and where sold off. I do know they have some high tech shipping related industries, like propulsion systems, but I wouldn’t have said they where a manufacturing economy. The old joke used to be that Abba where a bigger exporter than Volvo. They are also double the size of Scotland from a population perspective.

@gordimor – Countries generally don’t allow regions to break off and gain independence. I appreciate the very strong sense of nationality which exists in Scotland, legal system etc but right now it’s a region, a bit like one of the States in the USA.

This is what I think will happen with Scotland.

Yeah, but just think what Bay city rollers comeback tour could do for the Tartan industry!

teamhurtmore – Member

I am not sure which is the more telling. – Miss Maclaren’s comments or the justification

I don’t think either’s very telling tbh, student politics in action. She’s not an SNP representative after all- she might be a member, and she’ll have been voted to the position by other (maybe) members so she can (sort of) represent the society but that’s all. The SNP could condemn her I suppose but it’s the words of a kid, how much time do you think the press or serious politics should spend on it?

Mainly what it tells us is that people have opinions, which I didn’t realise before. And I suppose it tells you something about the press, but that bit shouldn’t come as a shock either.

Well, we can beg to differ. Either way, great fun to watch the subsequent “wriggling”. Its becoming quite a trend!

[and its A*A*A, or A*AA or AAA to get into Edinburgh these days – cant even hide behind “ignorance”!]

In addition to the unpleasant language, immaturity of the rant and odious sentiments

Enough about your frequent outpourings about the SNP and AS,tell us what you think about the student SNP leader. Boomtish! 😀

As for Sweden they certainly did make stuff (like cars, aircraft) but those businesses didn’t survive as independents and where sold off. I do know they have some high tech shipping related industries, like propulsion systems, but I wouldn’t have said they where a manufacturing economy. The old joke used to be that Abba where a bigger exporter than Volvo. They are also double the size of Scotland from a population perspective.

As I am sure you are aware from your own working life, who owns something doesn’t necessary matter to the viability of the industry in the country, just under 28% of gdp comes from manufacturing in sweden (phones still being important as is volvo), this is pretty much the same level as germany which is a manufactuing country I imagine in your view.

Well that and somebody “who has campaigned alongside Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond”. Presumably they didn’t want her there, don’t take her at all seriously, she isn’t representative of anybody else campaigning and somehow sneaked onto the campaign despite that?

Wriggle, wriggle, wriggle 😉

On 19 Sept, will these folk be able to re-adjust to being even vaguely straight?

teamhurtmore – Member

[and its A*A*A, or A*AA or AAA to get into Edinburgh these days – cant even hide behind “ignorance”!]

LOL, you can go to uni with straight As, pass out with a first, do a postgrad and a phd and still be pig ignorant.

aracer – Member

Well that and somebody “who has campaigned alongside Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond”.

And what does that actually mean here?

True NW, there’s a graduate in economics from Scotland’s finest university who still thinks a currency is an “asset.” But I prefer deceitful in that case rather than pig ignorant because I know that his prof taught him well. But a well made point!

I

In addition to the unpleasant language, immaturity of the rant and odious sentiments,

I am relived you dont stoop to such things and couch all your comments in the temperate moderate language that the BBC and the CS would be proud to use.

Brilliant

AS will probably be pleased if someone else is copping some flak after the recent embarrassments with Trident and fishing waters. Add “innocent passage” to “assets” on the list of definitions to learn.

At least Sillers knows the difference when referring to AS as a “liability” today:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond-become-liability-yes-3533466

I am relived you dont stoop to such things and couch all your comments in the temperate moderate language that the BBC and the CS would be proud to use.

The BBC is much more subtle when it wants to be biased. The Yes campaign “claims” or “insists”, the No campaign “states” or “clarifies”. News pieces use bracketing – bracket a story that’s good for Yes between quotes from the No side. Selectively edit interviews and coverage of FMQs. Stuff like that.

I was assuming it meant she’s been a significant part of the campaign team and out and about with them – clearly that’s not the case though given how insignificant and unrepresentative she actually is.

You can assume that if you like but then, the ambiguity of the line could make you suspect that she’s one of thousands campaigning “alongside” the party leaders, given the tone of the article. If they had some examples her apparent closeness and bighitterness they’d have used them instead of padding the article with mental claims from UKIP about student fees (seriously, how on earth does providing free education in Scotland for Scots “stoke resentment of the english”?). Or misleading claims from Better Together pretending this is a comment “from the SNP”

I’m sure they’re frantically looking for pics of her shaking hands with Salmond as we speak…

I am not sure which is the more telling. – Miss Maclaren’s comments or the justification.

The only thing that Student Grant Greta’s outburst tells you is that you shouldn’t pay too much attention to nineteen year olds.

Like the link thm. Jim sillars is not daft, but has been accused of being a failed politician by nationalist support here. He is however guilty of “playing the man not the ball”. 😉 I liked the slippery reply from the Salmond spokesperson.
Also where did we get the arrogance to assume that the renewables sector, based in Scotland, but heavily subsidised by the entire UK, is purely Scotlands renewables. If anything it could be said that renewables industries are a success story of the union, rather than reason to march to independence bragging about how wet and windy Scotland is!

seriously, how on earth does providing free education in Scotland for Scots “stoke resentment of the english”?

Its the politics of envy 😛

FWIW there is an party standing in the EU elections dedicated to stopping this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27218759
The English Democrats launched their campaign pledging to “look after English interests” and arguing it was unfair to charge English people for prescription charges and tuition fees when these are free for residents elsewhere in the UK. On its party website, it points out the launch took place on site of the 1381 Peasants’ Revolt. Candidates: Fielding candidates in every region of England

seriously, how on earth does providing free education in Scotland for Scots “stoke resentment of the english”?

It’s not just free for the Scots, it’s free for any EU member state’s kids. My mates kids have Dutch passports so they can go to Scottish Uni for free. That is going to stoke resentment amongst the English.

Also where did we get the arrogance to assume that the renewables sector, based in Scotland, but heavily subsidised by the entire UK, is purely Scotlands renewables

This sounds a lot like a rerun of that oil argument where it was suggested the oil should be divided up by population not geography. Are you going to divide the wind and tides up by population too?

@Jambalaya- But that’s not what he claimed- he specifically claimed Salmond did this as part of an agenda to stoke resentment in Scotland. Which is just plain gibberish.

The funding criteria are based on residency not nationality, incidentally, so anyone who tells you english kids can’t get a free degree in Scotland is either lying to you or clueless. Could be either, with UKIP.

(Oh and without dragging it too far off topic, you might want to mention to your mate that EU funded places are scarce- it might look like an easy route to a free education but in practice it’s generally an easy route to not getting into uni. If they’re approaching admissions age they will want to speak to the admissions department of their target unis to make sure they’re not walking into trouble. No messing)

So why is outright UKIP misinformation being carried by the Telegraph in a feature on scottish independence? Couldn’t hazard a guess 😉

The only thing that Student Grant Greta’s outburst tells you is that you shouldn’t pay too much attention to nineteen year olds.

Quite a ridiculous comment, would anyone dismiss bigotry expressed by a 19 year old member of the BNP or UKIP as merely youthful indiscretions and therefore of little concern ?

Official SNP policy is that 16 year olds are political mature enough to have a vote in the electoral process as which as equal as that of any adult – which in the UK means anyone 18 years old and over.

I therefore fail to see why the president of Edinburgh University’s SNP branch should have any slack cut because she is “only” 19 years old.

Would rUK tax payers be keen to keep subsidizing renewables projects in a foreign country? I also seem to recall they have tides in rUK as well.

In the same way that English people can vote in the referendum?

Perhaps you can explain how scottish renewables would need subsidised athgray?
Jambalaya the UN seems to think people’s are entitled to express their will democratically it’s in article 21of the universal declaration of human rights.
And finally
#publish the poll

ernie_lynch – Member

Quite a ridiculous comment, would anyone dismiss bigotry expressed by a 19 year old member of the BNP or UKIP as merely youthful indiscretions and therefore of little concern ?

I’d say it’s one person’s opinion, and absurd that we’re even talking about it, frankly. That’s the real point- it’s not about making excuses for her, but about saying “Really, so what?” That’s why it’s of little concern. Person says thing.

Obviously there are people who want to run with an “SNP hates the english” agenda so I suppose it’s reassuring that this is the best they can find.

aracer – Member

In the same way that English people can vote in the referendum?

Not quite the same rules, but yes, very similiar.

@ Ben- that story doesn’t seem to reliable, with Mori denying they have an employee by the name… Keeping polling internal isn’t really suspicious.

The thing I found interesting, is that the “Cabinet Office Devolution Team” is doing polls on scottish independence. Since when is the Devolution Team part of Better Together? Do they not have a job to do? Kind of makes you wonder if other westminster departments have been retasked to fight this and what affect that’s having. The UKBA were certainly spending time on it while around them the department collapsed.