[Closed] Natural Riding is Much Better Than Trail Centres?

Does anyone else feel the same thing?

No, you are literally the first person ever to express such sentiments on a mountain bike forum, well done.

You stole JoB's log on and I claim my £5.

Serious answer: both have a place and you are probably preaching to the converted.

Not better. Just different. 🙂

I don't get the same feeling of exploration/adventure at a trail centre.

If I'm going to ride say 20 miles, I'd like that 20 miles to be spread out over an area a lot bigger than a couple of square miles switching back and forth.

Although the terrain generally more interesting/challenging due to it being manufactured, I don't get the same feeling of satisfaction looking back over an open moorland or rolling hills and think "wow, I rode from all the way over there".

Try trailquesting (did I mention I ride trailquests ?).
It's not for everyone, there's no coloured arrows to tell you which way to turn out of the car park and warn you how big the bumps are, so it would be a bit daunting for most trail centre riders.

Get an OS map of your local area.
You don't have to go the Peaks or Snowdon, there's probably a good selection of bridleways within a few miles of where you live.

This is why I love STW.

I'd leave my own sarky comment, but I don't want to feel churlish so I'll just enjoy reading the others instead.

Don't think either one is better. I ride and enjoy both. I'm just glad I have the choice of so much different riding.

Padowan - where the heck are you riding? This is a new one on me.

'Although the terrain generally more interesting/challenging due to it being manufactured'

Much as I spend most of my time riding around the peak district, it has been said to me before that there aren't any 'proper mountains' in the peak. So rules me out as a 'proper mountain biker' I guess.

ps I spend on average 2 long weekends at trail centres most years, and really enjoy them.

Both are good.

I like going to a trail centre so I can just turn up, blast round and know there'll be a bacon roll & mug of tea at the end.

Other times I like to get out with a map, get a bit lost, scare myself on unknown trails etc....

I like trail centres, I just can't be arsed with stopping and looking at a map.

its about time for this thread again.....

pulls up a chair....

anyone for a biscuit?

trail centres are a great resource that provide more places to play on a bike. what's not to like?

Can I be the only person who's never been to a trail centre? Surely not!

I've never been to a man-made centre sans Swinley (does it even count?). I dislike the idea although there must be a point in their existence.

KINGTUT, would you like a cuppa?

Crumbs - has this really been discussed before? I must have missed it! Trail centres versus natural riding you say????

I think both trail centres are natural trails are total crap I prefer natural centres.

The very UN-natural Mabie

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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/simonralli/4941360297/ ]IMG_0012[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/simonralli/ ]simon ralli[/url], on Flickr

Hideously artificial!!!

[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/4941353585_3ef4e06d6f.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/4941353585_3ef4e06d6f.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/simonralli/4941353585/ ]August 30th[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/simonralli/ ]simon ralli[/url], on Flickr

I love trail centres, but I also love doing natural trails. I did have a while of not being to bothered about trail centres, but that was because I'd been doing them to death. Now its just an occasional thing and I probably enjoy them more like this.
They've got their place, and knowing theres little chance of someone coming the otherway, you can really let go and go as fast as possible.

Hairychested - Member

KINGTUT, would you like a cuppa?

You what now?

EDIT: Ah I see, one teaspoon of no cal sugar substitute please.

The fact is, most xc mincers are scared to admit that they really struggle with trail centres. 1 foot drop offs and 3 foot table tops are a daunting prospect when your used to pootling down a smooth, grassy hill side with your seat up your arse.

I was gutted when trail centres started becoming more popular, the insurge of xc mincers - take a look at whinlatter, its completely ruined by all the braking bumps there. I hope all you xc mincers go and get lost in the mountains where you belong and leave the challenging trails (trail centres) for me to play on.

My friends will tell you that I have a very open mind towards trail centres, eh Bushwacked? 😉

Don't go to trail centres that often but I enjoy then when I do, it's all riding your bike so all good imo

I've never been to a man-made centre sans Swinley (does it even count?).

Yes, Swinley does count. It's a trail centre in every sense of the word. And not a very good one at that. It used to be great, but it's all but ruined now 🙁

Trail centers are shite, end of.

Give me Home Roast Beef rather than a big fat greasy Mc-Dees any day. Trail centers are boring. Made to flow to cope with the amount of traffic going through, made to be "all weather" Yawn-A-Rama! Challenging? Pffft get out in the Peaks & Dales where weather changes the challenge, you can do the same loop 5 times and each time its different. Be it the weather or some movement in rocks, drops etc. Mother nature at its best!

I went to Dalby in April time and it was the last time and will be the last time I goto a trail centre. No fun really. Glentress was my first one a few years back and it was fun, but the novelty has warn of. For me anyways.

Were are all different and thats good. I know people who love them, like them, and like me, will stay clear of them.

Don't get me wrong - I used to love trail centres. Just having done a lot of them then they kind of all just blend into one.

As for natural riders being classed as XC mincers - I don't think so. Have you seen some of the natural riding in the UK? Some seriously knarly stuff around - all done without full face helmets or soft kneepads.

Not better. Just different.

Exactly. You can do both you know..

And of course, there's balls all natural about most "natural" trails anyway.

Thats the bit that made me chuckle. Goto Trail Centres full of mincers in full body armour and full facers, then going like miss daisy!

I enjoy riding trail centers and natural trails, but the thing that's starting to put me off centers a fair bit, is how busy they are. I don't want noise and crowds when I'm out on the bike and yobs skidding and pulling wheelies and endos all over the car park, getting on peoples' tits. I only really get to ride on a Sunday, so can't generally go at quieter times.
The upside is that non-manmade trails seem to be getting a bit quieter these days.

Natural > Anything else.

Get a spade and put it there yourself, no traffic jams on your own secret trails!

Goto Trail Centres full of mincers in full body armour and full facers

Can you not read?

1 foot drop offs and 3 foot table tops

As I said, we're not pootling down a grassy field (like most on here)We're taking on proper trail obstacles. Armour is a good idea for this sort of riding.

Yes I can read. I can also see. When Ive been to Trail centres its full of mincers in full body armour pootling down red routes as if there is a 50ft drop.

Youre obviously off to some mad Gnarly centre DUDE!

I would also like you to visit some of the bridleways of the Lake District & Yorkshire Dales where there are natural drops, loose rocky terrain and especially the Lake District where there is some serious rocky sections that are sharp edge.

SimonFBarnes will back me up here as will everyone else who doesnt mince in TrailCentres

DUDE!

'natural' trails are shite:
[img] [/img]

mile after mile after mile of arrow straight featureless motorway.

yawn.

At least we have trail centres to get bored of.
They are in addition to the natural riding that has always been there.
For those of us who don't live somewhere hilly, they pack in more fun per mile than the alternatives.
Sounds like the OP never rode his bike anywhere other than trail centres before his recent enlightenment.

I don't like them because I can't ride them.

Berms and graded surfaces just seem to freak me out, plus whatever this 'flow' is that so many trailcentres apparently possess, its not mine.

i think you need to approach local riding with a different view. Its not just about hurtling down fast paths and jumping and all that stuff. Its also about exploring little-known places that youve lived near your entire life and sometimes about beasting yourself as hard as you can to get fitter.

[img] [/img]

Natural Riding beats boring Trail Centre

I'm glad MartinGT doesn't go to trail centres as he would surely make the rest of us tremble with his mighty awesomeness.

I would also like you to visit some of the bridleways of the Lake District and Yorkshire Dales where there are natural drops, loose rocky terrain and especially the Lake District where there is some serious rocky sections that are sharp edge.

You might want to check Mr. Taylforth's location 😉

I wanted to go to Glentress to pootle down with the saddle up my ass. Is this not allowed? This is what has always put me off trail centres despite liking the idea of miles of manufactured fun. I'm not a crazy, jump off everything, get to the bottom as fast as I can, kinda guy. I wanna get back home to my kids, preferrably alive. Are trail centres full of unwelcoming gits who don't want us normal folk about?

no

i've never been to a trail centre, despite my parents living about 20mins from Dalby. I seem to spend most of my time between Peak District and North York Moors, there's too much good riding there for me to want to go to a TC.

Where's good? That i can take a train to (or very close to atleast..)

So where's the best natural riding for north shore type stuff?
Or any natural pump tracks around?

I wanted to go to Glentress to pootle down with the saddle up my ass. Is this not allowed?

Yes, aslong as you stick to the fire roads.

By the sounds of things, I'd avoid the red and black routes if I were you. They will completely blow your mind and make you question whats actually possible on a mountain bike.

I made it home after the first time I rode them, but it took me 20minutes to start the car - couldnt turn the keys in the ignition because my hands were shaking so much.

ooOOoo - Member

So where's the best natural riding for north shore type stuff?
Or any natural pump tracks around?

i'd just settle for some 'natural' singletrack...

zerolight - Member
I wanted to go to Glentress to pootle down with the saddle up my ass... I'm not a crazy, jump off everything, get to the bottom as fast as I can, kinda guy. I wanna get back home to my kids, preferrably alive...

i'd suggest the Glentress Blue; it's very easy, very swoopy, and lots of fun.

It depends where you live, surely, and what your local trails are like.
I'm lucky enough to live on the south west fringes of sheffield, so I rarely visit trail centres.
Why would I drive 2 hours to dalby (the nearest) when I can be on a bridleway heading to the dark peak within a 1 minute ride of my front door?
The only times I really visit trail centres is when I'm on holiday say in the lakes, dales or wales.
Although the last 2 visits to snowdonia and the lakes I opted to ride the natural stuff. It's way more challenging than what I remember of dalby, whinlatter, grizedale and the Marin trail.
Pysically and technically.
If I want to ride tabletops and drops I can go to the local BMX track. Don't need a car for that either.
Not been to any of the scottish ones, and I would definitely check out 7staines if the opportunity arose. Just to see what the fuss is about.

In the end I don't consider people who only ride trail centres to be proper mountain bikers. They may have really good bike skills and be faster than me, but mountain biking involves finding your way and being self sufficient, looking after yourself for a day in the hills, not having the easy option of a walk back to the car if something goes wrong.

By the sounds of things, I'd avoid the red and black routes if I were you. They will completely blow your mind and make you question whats actually possible on a mountain bike.

Oh, I've been riding red and black grade stuff without dropping my saddle. I don't own any body armour or a full face. Or suspension.

Perhaps I've been asking my bike the wrong questions?

I best avoid the 1 foot drop I ride on my commuter on the way home tonight too.

docrobster - Member

It depends where you live, surely, and what your local trails are like.

i also live in sheffield; lots of lovely singletrack, some of it's footpaths, most of it's just badger trails, almost none of it is Bridleway.

Trail centres allow me to ride singletrack in daylight, without getting shot.

Trail Centres I've done:
Afan/CG - good fun, nice for a blast
Swinley - OK
Frizedale forest - way too easy and boring
Bedgebury - can you class that as a trail!
Cym Carn - boring and uninspiring

Natural trail riding:
Peak district (Jacob's, Cut Gate etc) - Brilliant, scary and technical
lake District - Brilliant and challenging
Quantocks and Darmoor - fast, scary, technical, and bloody hard climbs.
South Downs - erm, ok, that can be a bit boring in places!

And that's even before I've talked about my local trails!

Saying that, I'm hoping to get to Afan over christmas as it's an easy blast with mates who need a bit of confidence.

They will completely blow your mind and make you question whats actually possible on a mountain bike.

but mountain biking involves finding your way and being self sufficient

Oh good, there's a rule book and a clear list of definitions now. Could you provide a link please.

There's some awful snobbery, sectarianism and cobblers on this thread 😉

Bikes, riding - it's all good 😎

Coyote +1

I was about to question that assumption as well - part of the reason I got into riding mountain bikes was to escape the ****iness of rock climbing with it's artificial self-imposed hierarchies and ethics. The last thing I want is for people to be telling me what does and doesn't constitute 'mountain biking'.

At the end of the day, the 'mountain' in mountain bike is possibly something of a misnomer - perhaps the French have a better idea with "all terrain bike" (VTT). For me the two most important criteria are "am I riding a bike?" and "am I having fun?" - if the answer to both is yes, that'll do me.

The most of the official DH tracks in Portes Du Soleil now there is boring for you. Well ok not boring just very very uniform.

Trail centres are FANTASTIC resourses, I use them to:

Get fitter then my naturail trail loop allows due to the unatural up/ down nature of centres, its like interval training but fun.

Session different corner / bend types including berms

Session drops

Session steep rideable inclines up and down

Learn how to pump the inbuilt rollers at centres
Etc etc,

These skills are then transfered and translated in to the riding of natural trails, and its surprising how often the trail centre features (in the extreme, of course) are found in the real world.
Knowing how to enjoy the man made features means riding your natural loop becomes more fun, as you search out the natural rollers to pump, natural kickers to jump, that bit of wear where the trail sinks away from the edge becomes a mini berm to find cornering grip....

When I go to trail centres they usually seem to be full of people having fun on their bikes.

I'll have to set them straight next time and let them know how deluded they are.

I'm an seat up 'XC mincer' and I like trail centres!
I try and ride stuff at a trail centre that I'd normally get off and walk in the wilds - they just seem like good places to concentrate on technique without having to worrying about navigation as well.

On balance though, I prefer a big day out in the hills - less people, better views, more variation in terrain and a greater sense of achievement.
And although I love the satisfaction in clearing a difficult piece of trail, I love pootling along enjoying the countryside too.
It's not supposed to be competitive, unless you've got a number on. 🙂

I like techy stuff, and when it gets a bit much, I just take the chicken routes, and the few trails I have had the pleasure of riding. I just don't want to be abused because I'm not going as fast as the dude with 24" of travel and a motor bike helmet who wants to get air over every hump he sees.

Oh, and whilst we are on the subject of rules and definitions. Please can someone define a "natural" trail. Aren't most of them man-made in some form?

Frizedale forest - way too easy and boring

doesn't that say it all? Grizedale is stuffed with great riding, but you need a map, leader or luck to find it. The NFT is as described 🙂

Try trailquesting (did I mention I ride trailquests ?).

it's like mountain biking but more boring and you don't see your mates 🙁

IMO Natural riding is better, but a clast round a trail centre is fun.

You can be fast at a trail centre but those are completely different skills to natural techy stuff. I prefer the natural stuff as its more challenging but everyone to their own!

doesn't that say it all? Grizedale is stuffed with great riding, but you need a map, leader or luck to find it. The NFT is as described

now you mention it, we did do a couple of extra bits, and they were better than the trail.

I'm with MS on this one.

Coyote - Member

Oh, and whilst we are on the subject of rules and definitions. Please can someone define a "natural" trail. Aren't most of them man-made in some form?

don't ask difficult questions!

everything i ride is 'man made' - some trails have fewer features in them, these are called 'bridleways'.

The fact is, most xc mincers are scared to admit that they really struggle with trail centres

😆 Briliant!!! 😆

I don't remember struggling on Llandegla & Hamsterley black or follow the dog on my then rigid singlespeed?? Got a few funny looks in the Sherwood pines bike park too 😆 Must mince harder I guess 🙄 I also ride a road bike so I am doubly mince.

Not ridden a trail centre but I'm still going to spout opinionated guff at the expense of trail centre users.

Actually no I'm not.

As long as it gets you out there, who cares?

Oh, and whilst we are on the subject of rules and definitions. Please can someone define a "natural" trail. Aren't most of them man-made in some form?

Apart from the ones made by deer, sheep, badgers, rabbits...

The best stuff at my local trail centre is the non-waymarked stuff. Those are generally natural trails that have been tidied up a little.

Man-enhanced natural trails. In a trail centre.

The best stuff in The Wilds is often either animal-made then eroded, or man-made and left unmaintained.

As long as it gets you out there, who cares?

Nail on head.

I've had as much fun riding the towpath on the Leeds Liverpool canal and Bury Bolton canal as i have at Healey Nab, Gisburn and Lee & Cragg quarries

[b]Plus[/b]
[*]Good when the real trails are horribly sloppy[/*]
[*]Have longer flow sections[/*]
[*]Have more good corners[/*]

[b]Neg[/b]
[*]Can feel samey[/*]
[*]Can feel tamed, lacking "chaos"[/*]
[*]Often busy[/*]
[*]Are a closed loop, rather than an open network[/*]

Edited - I think I've broken the Internet.

What surf-mat said. Plus, I've never been BORED on my mountain bike. Not ever.

Plus, I've never been BORED on my mountain bike. Not ever.

I did say "more boring than", what I mean is I found the spurious competition and having to go to places to score points within a time limit interfered with my normal enjoyment of riding 🙁

(There were more references to boredom than yours sfb.)

Apart from the ones made by deer, sheep, badgers, rabbits...

I wonder do deer, sheep, badgers, and rabbits have similar debates about what kind of trails they prefer / are allowed to wander on? I mean I think a rabbit might struggle with a step-up made by a deer, and the deer might have a problem where the badgers decide to go sub-terranean........

And as for sheep, well they are basically man-made themselves, does that not mean the trails they make are effectively man-made??

well they are basically man-made themselves

I hadn't realised that sheep shagging was [b]that[/b] effective!

Aww, come on? You tryin' to tell me youve never watched " The Revenge Of Billy The Kid"?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102783/

Really? When they have been designed and built to ride on a mountain bike.
Unlikely.

Woosh 😀

and there was me think 'natural riding' was a naturist pastime..

[img] [/img]

but do naturist mtb'ers still wear body armour?