"Muslim" terrorists attack French magazine in Paris

Tom_W1987 – Member
These men looked trained as opposed to home grown idiot nutcases.

Home grown are meant to carry out suicide bombing only … they are disposable.

These are of course well trained shooters to handle AK47 which is not easy without training.

I really wouldn’t be surprised if they are hardened ISIS militants.

@Tom Agreed on hardened, although they said they where Al-Q in Yemen and they are equally battle hardened.

Excellent piece from Vice News (outstanding news site with lots of coverage main stream sites don’t have an different view points)

Vice News; Fourth Similar Attack in France in 3 weeks

No, any idiot can rage out and go on a shooting spree. Doing it calmly, using controlled fire and escaping takes training and a very different mindset.

IMO I don’t think it’s long before we get an attack like the recent one in Pakistan.

Shall we deal with the current issue before we dig up WWII again?

I’m simply pointing out the obvious of where this could lead.

At first, few Germans paid much attention to the Nazis,

How many Muslims are paying much attention to extremism?

I’m afraid I still can’t comprehend the difference between a hateful ideology that calls itself a political movement and one that calls itself a religion.

Bad is Bad whatever the name and I fear the Wests failure to address the problem will result in an excessive reaction down the line.

The really frightening thing is that a group like this with those types of weapons plus worse, could wreak havoc and death in any of our Cities, with even specialist police firearm teams unable to cope.

How long would it take to get properly trained Army/SAS troops into the area? It would be all over long before then. FFS!

And would you still say that if your Wife worked as a Receptionist at one of those Newspapers?

Well, the Yanks wouldn’t have any issues – as the receptionists are often armed. We have to draw a line and say that we are ready to stand for our own values, newspapers need to employ people who are willing to take thoses risks and they also need to spend more money on security.

The really frightening thing is that a group like this with those types of weapons plus worse, could wreak havoc and death in any of our Cities, with even specialist police firearm teams unable to cope.

How long would it take to get properly trained Army/SAS troops into the area? It would be all over long before then. FFS!

The proliferation of illegal guns in the UK is actually ridiculous, we might shit on the yanks for their gun laws but we have 10s if not 100s of thousands of illegal weapons on the streets – it’s just no one has much of an incentive to use them that often at the moment.

I’m simply pointing out the obvious of where this could lead.

It could lead anywhere [ but logical and coherent debate]
There are very few parallels to be drawn between a religious pan national movement and a nationalist fascistic expansionist one. They both committed atrocities but that is it. We are hardly “appeasing” them as the numerous invasions and bombings of them should suggest.

You cannot beat an idea or a religion with persecution and bombs

esselgruntfuttock – Member
I’m simply pointing out the obvious of where this could lead.

Ya, but you have to remember there are plenty of PhDs on STW so stating the obvious only undermine their intellectual capacity. You score no points there.

How many Muslims are paying much attention to extremism?

I think you are asking too much of everyone if you think people are that concerned about extremism until it strikes. Usually it’s too late.

🙄

BTW – the argument from earlier about ‘the LRA aren’t a threat to us in the west’. Well no, of course not – that’s either a particularly poor straw man or people just being moronic.

The point is, that when a nutty organisation do unspeakably vile things on a large scale in the name of christianity, no-one tries to claim there is a general problem with christianity. The Ku Klux Klan is an overtly christian organisation, or try Anders Breivik, or some of these:

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

FWIW there clearly is a problem with the extremist interpretation of Islam – but making crass generalisations and over-hyping the danger isn’t going to help anyone.

You cannot beat an idea or a religion with persecution and bombs

Personally I think this is wrong really, the Taliban and some AQ commanders have even admitted they wished the 9/11 towers had never been attacked as the yanks put their command structure back by a few decades.

Calculated attacks by trained individuals can be stopped by attacking command and training structures and killing leaders – the Americans have been pretty successful in this regard as AQ hasn’t had the capability to attack America on home soil for quite some time now. The Russians have pretty effectively stomped the Chechen rebels on the head post 2004 as well. Stopping lone wolf attacks by lunatics is harder though.

right so Al quaeda still exist but what i said was horse shit? has their world view been beaten? Have they stopped doing terrorist attacks?

probably be a stronger rebuttal if you said how we no longer have Al Qaeda and terrorism since we attacked the axis of evil. Then again that is at odds with the facts

We cannot defeat Islamic extremis by bombing them all can we?
Reduce , impact on yes, defeat No

I

think you are asking too much of everyone if you think people are that concerned about extremism until it strikes. Usually it’s too late.

Like Ze Germans? 🙂

probably be a stronger rebuttal if you said how we no longer have Al Qaeda and terrorism since we attacked the axis of evil. Then again that is at odds with the facts

AQ still exists, what I’m saying is that their capabilities are greatly diminished. This is a short term solution, the longer term solution is a cultural war but these can last hundreds of years.

I haven’t read this thread, but just heard about this on R4 News. Such events will only fuel the rise of a right wing reaction across Europe, of the kind we have seen recently in Germany. This is all going to end very badly!

This statement from Salman Rushdie captures my feeling…

“Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms.
“This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today.
“I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity.
“‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion.’ Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.”

“I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity”

As a longtime Private Eye subscriber I agree wholeheartedly.

esselgruntfuttock – Member
Like Ze Germans?

Nein.

You cannot compare them to Germans. Germans built VW (air cooled), Mercedes Bens, Audi, BMW etc and were technologically superior to most in those days.

What we have seen now is just guerrilla warfare on soft targets.

oldboy – Member

I haven’t read this thread, but just heard about this on R4 News. Such events will only fuel the rise of a right wing reaction across Europe, of the kind we have seen recently in Germany. This is all going to end very badly!

That’s the cycle …

I fear there will be repercussions for the wider muslim community in France as a result of these murders. There have always been simmering tensions between the indigenous French and their immigrant population – This attack is a gift for the right wing in France. If I were a conspiracy believer I’d have things to say about a well trained, adept and informed (victims at a board meeting) death squad having the discipline to escape armed police but the lack of discipline to not shout out plenty of allah akbars etc etc so there’s no doubt who did it.. .

joolsburger – Member

I fear there will be repercussions for the wider muslim community in France as a result of these murders. There have always been simmering tensions between the indigenous French and their immigrant population – This attack is a gift for the right wing in France.

It’s inevitable. You can only push people to some extend then all hell break loose and that’s where one side will be severely defeated. Then everyone take notes of their guilt, contemplate for a generation or two and the cycle starts again with something else.

We cannot defeat Islamic extremis by bombing them all can we?

Nope but it’d be a start….target the heads of these organisations, target the training camps…absolutely annihilate groups like ISIS/ISIL etc…special forces soldiers essentially on long term rotation executing these murderous individuals.

Combine the above with intelligence gathering and proper surveillance in this country of the preachers, students, websites etc that spread the violent extreme form of Islam that is so problematic at the moment.

Accompany the above with a more outspoken and robust approach from Politicians and newspapers who seem paralysed by fear of offending peaceful Muslims, openly and vigorously criticise this wing of the religion…mock it if necessary but dont try and pass it off with the cliched “they’re not real Muslims” nonsence…they believe they are, they believe they are interpreting the faith the correct way, they believe everybody else is wrong.

…while we’re at it encourage the sane and peaceful majority to dob their own lot in if they have concerns.
When a youth has a complete change of character, starts talking about jihad and adopts a more radical approach to the faith at home i’d hope the parents would have the guts to come forward and share that information with authorities….sadly it doesnt seem to happen.

Seriously, it would benefit the Muslim majority to put its own house in order because the non Muslim public only has the stomach for so much until all Muslims are seen as the same….and then you’ll have a situation where far right parties cruise into power and the religion and its followers (peaceful or otherwise) will have a tough time of it….how long before revenge attacks on Muslims?
Look at the Jews in pre-war Germany….followers of Islam could find themselves on the recieving end of that if they dont face up to the danger of their own lunatic fringe.

Edit- just read a few posts above mine, Salman Rushdie has it right.

A simple way of reducing the threat would be to control mass immigration of muslims into the country.

IMO I think we’ve been playing a game in which we should have kept out of the Muslim world and not interfered with geopolitics or we should have gone down the Israeli route. We have done neither and now the only option that I feel is left, is getting as dirty as the Israelis.

badnewz – Member A simple way of reducing the threat would be to control mass immigration of muslims into the country.

Of course it would. What a brilliant well thought out idea. 🙄

Apart from the fact the Islamic terrorist here are British borne that is an excellent suggestion

Yeah, however we do have the benefit of being an island meaning that we can place our borders under greater scrutiny than the French. The French have long borders which allow people like these to potentially skip over the Syrian/Iraqi borders into Turkey and then the EU.

What pisses me off the most is the anti-immigrant feeling that’s caused by this then extends to immigrants who are from entirely different backgrounds, like my wife for example, I think we need to find a damage limitation strategy/rhetoric that placates and limits the right to venting their frustrations on the Muslim world.

Our egalitarian society is slowly going to hell otherwise. It’s a damage limitation exercise now.

Apart from the fact the Islamic terrorist here are British borne that is an excellent suggestion,

I’ve been opposed to mass immigration for years anyhow – so if I had my way, there wouldn’t be a significant Muslim community in the UK in the first place.

Nope but it’d be a start….target the heads of these organisations, target the training camps…absolutely annihilate groups like ISIS/ISIL etc…special forces soldiers essentially on long term rotation executing these murderous individuals.

We can thank the Americans for founding ISIS

“the US-run prison provided an extraordinary opportunity. “We could never have all got together like this in Baghdad, or anywhere else,” he told me. “It would have been impossibly dangerous. Here, we were not only safe, but we were only a few hundred metres away from the entire al-Qaida leadership.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/11/-sp-isis-the-inside-story

I’ve been opposed to mass immigration for years anyhow – so if I had my way, there wouldn’t be a significant Muslim community in the UK in the first place.

I would never have guessed anyway do you accept that reducing it now wont help or not ? Just trying to see whether facts have any impact on your view.

I would never have guessed anyway do you accept that reducing it now wont help or not ? Just trying to see whether facts have any impact on your view.

Of course it would be beneficial. You have no manners btw (and I expect, no friends either).

Ok so facts dont matter, thanks.
I have some manners but they are limited in nature and scope, like your thinking 😉

@badnewz don’t forget the sterlisation camps that you’ll need to stop them making babies. Maybe we should sequest all there goods and chattals, maybe put them all in temporary camps for their own safety n that.

Junkyard – lazarus

I’ve been opposed to mass immigration for years anyhow – so if I had my way, there wouldn’t be a significant Muslim community in the UK in the first place.

I would never have guessed anyway do you accept that reducing it now wont help or not ? Just trying to see whether facts have any impact on your view. [/quote]

Setting quota for each country. How hard can that be or are you spineless?

Those local terrors the govt can stripe off their nationality … ya, no passport … no travel. Any other country wants them then they can feed and house them but they are banned from entering this country forever.

🙄

Those local terrors the govt can stripe off their nationality … ya, no passport … no travel. Any other country wants them then they can feed and house them.

Eh?

Je suis Charlie

RaveyDavey – Member

Those local terrors the govt can stripe off their nationality … ya, no passport … no travel. Any other country wants them then they can feed and house them.

Eh? [/quote]

Eh? Which part do you not understand? How hard can it be?

Setting quotas for each country.

Far too late for that chewie, the damage is well & truly done.
Anyone on here heard of Enoch Powell BTW? (although he didn’t mention anything about Islamic terrorists going around causing bother to be fair)

Persecuting Muslims is like trying to kick the cancer out of a patient, we can keep open borders but restrict Islamic practice as we would any other fascist behaviour.

Anyone on here heard of Enoch Powell BTW?

Yes a well know racist who made a false prophecy who is often quoted by racist who are too ashamed of their own views to say them publicly.

What of him? Tell me more

I am Charlie

esselgruntfuttock – Member

Setting quotas for each country.

Far too late for that chewie, the damage is well & truly done.
Anyone on here heard of Enoch Powell BTW? (although he didn’t mention anything about Islamic terrorists going around causing bother to be fair)

Not too late yet. If this continues for another two generations yes that might be too late.

Ya, I have heard of E.Powell and most people think he had funny ideas but he saw them coming …

Junkyard – lazarus

Yes a well know racist who made a false prophecy who is often quoted by racist who are too ashamed of their own views to say them publicly.

What of him? Tell me more

I am Charlie

I think you are too quick off your trigger by your racist assumption, I mean some people genuinely do not like others so why force them to change their views?

Charlie, so you are … 😆 I don’t come across that name often nowadays.